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Primer on the Wizards and Goodwin's NBA chances


thetorch

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On 8/15/2021 at 8:19 PM, almaman said:

no I was asking is it a thing now that teams develop roster players in the G league. obviously that's what it's for but in watching NBA I haven't heard much talk as one always here's in baseball about players progressing from minor league to the big show. Most players seem to be draft picks or foreign players. I guess Reed is an example but he never stuck. 

Alex Caruso...Duncan Robinson...Robert Covington...Chris Boucher...Fred VanFleet..Justin Holiday...PJ Dozier...Christian Wood...Garrett Temple...Seth Curry....David Nwaba...Juan Toscano-Anderson...Gabe Vincent...Kendrick Nunn...all were undrafted and played in the G League and are all on NBA teams currently.  45% of players who were on rosters at the start of last season had NBA G league experience.

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One important thing to note is that Goodwin’s stat line is more impressive than Javon Bess’s during summer league. If he can continue to improve his shooting, I think he could get drawn up into the NBA. He clearly has some potential. The fact that he was one of the top five minute getters is important as well.

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33 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

One important thing to note is that Goodwin’s stat line is more impressive than Javon Bess’s during summer league. If he can continue to improve his shooting, I think he could get drawn up into the NBA. He clearly has some potential. The fact that he was one of the top five minute getters is important as well.

I dont recall Bess getting near the minutes that Jordan is getting.  Plus, Bess seemed to be used as a Power Forward in 2019 by the Pelicans instead of a wing.  so imo no fair comparison.    

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11 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

I dont recall Bess getting near the minutes that Jordan is getting.  Plus, Bess seemed to be used as a Power Forward in 2019 by the Pelicans instead of a wing.  so imo no fair comparison.    

Yep.  Bess averaged 5.5 minutes per game across 4 summer league games whereas Goodwin averaged 18.9 minutes per game across 4 games.  

In my mind Goodwin isn't a phenomenally better player than Bess.  Bess is a slightly better defender & shooter and is bigger, Goodwin is a better ball-handler & rebounder.  I'm not sure why Goodwin has seemingly gotten more of an opportunity, but likely there are number of factors there beyond their talent level (fit, depth, luck, injury/COVID luck, etc.).

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4 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

The problem with the Wizards situation is they just acquired a bunch of proven players in a trade.  They don't have to take a flyer on anybody in summer league that hasn't impressed.  Nobody, including Kispert, has impressed.  But he has to make the team because they used a top 15 draft pick to get him.

Goodwin really isn't competing with any of those guys they got in trades (KCP, Kuzma, Harrell, Dinwiddie, Holiday).  Those guys will all make the 15 man roster if they aren't traded elsewhere before the season starts.

Goodwin is competing for one of the two available 2 way contracts with some other guys.

I supposed you could argue that one or more of the Wizards 2 way guys could have made the 15 man roster if the Wizards hadn't traded for the others.  However, more likely they would have signed some better / more experienced players to minimum contracts rather than giving roster spots to largely unproven talent.  The Wizards are hoping to stay competitive for a playoff spot to appease Brad Beal.

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18 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

Goodwin really isn't competing with any of those guys they got in trades (KCP, Kuzma, Harrell, Dinwiddie, Holiday).  Those guys will all make the 15 man roster if they aren't traded elsewhere before the season starts.

Goodwin is competing for one of the two available 2 way contracts with some other guys.

I supposed you could argue that one or more of the Wizards 2 way guys could have made the 15 man roster if the Wizards hadn't traded for the others.  However, more likely they would have signed some better / more experienced players to minimum contracts rather than giving roster spots to largely unproven talent.  The Wizards are hoping to stay competitive for a playoff spot to appease Brad Beal.

I'll have to defer to your superior NBA knowledge.  Which two players do you think that Goodwin is competing with?

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Goodwin is going to be part of the 20 man preseason roster for the Wizards.  I don't think that is in doubt.  How he preforms in training camp and in the action he sees in their exhibition games is really the only thing that matters at this point.  I don't think their is any chance Goodwin makes the 15 man roster to start the season.  The hope is that he impresses enough to have his Exhibit 10 contract converted to a two-way contract.  Worse case he gets his 60 days on the Go-Go's roster, collects his $50,000 bonus and then decides if he wants to stick it out for the season in G League hoping to make the roster or if he wants to buy himself out of the deal so he can make more money in Europe.

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21 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I'll have to defer to your superior NBA knowledge.  Which two players do you think that Goodwin is competing with?

Sorry for the confusion.  I didn't mean he is competing with two players.  Each NBA team is allowed a maximum of two "two-way contracts" in addition to the 15 man roster.  Guys on "two-way contracts" make 1/2 of the rookie minimum salary and can be active for a max of 50 (out of 82) games during the regular season.  The rest of the season they spend in the G league (hence two-way).  They essentially act as backups to the backups if someone gets hurt and/or guys are resting during the season.

As for who Jordan Goodwin is competing with for a 2 way deal.  I think it's been covered by others more knowledgeable than me earlier in the thread, but essentially you can look at their summer league roster minus Kispert who will be on the 15 man and those are the guys he's up against.  Cassius Winston who was on a 2-way with the Wizards last year is definitely one of those guys.

Good news for Goodwin is that while a many other teams have already filled in their 2-way spots, the Wizards still have both of theirs open.

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https://www.bulletsforever.com/2021/8/17/22628678/washington-wizards-summer-league-capital-city-go-go-caleb-homesley-jaime-echenique-isaiah-todd

Here is a Wizards blog post "Wizards’ Summer League players who should be on the Capital City Go-Go this season"

Goodwin's blurb:

Jordan Goodwin, 6’3, guard, St. Louis, undrafted in 2021

I hoped that Goodwin would be a steadying force for the team offensively once Cassius Winston was ruled out due to health and safety protocols. But the offense never seemed to come together and while it’s fair to partly attribute that to his play, I’m not sure Chris Paul could have made this group look organized and cohesive.

Goodwin shot the ball very poorly but he brought other things to the table that would be beneficial to see more of on a G League roster. He averaged 5 rebounds a game, which is great for a guard and shows the type of hustle you hope would be contagious to teammates. He also averaged 3.3 steals per game (7 of those came in one game), which also shows he has a nose for the ball and will get after people defensively.

The physical tools are there and it’s worth seeing if he can put it all together with more structure around him. We interviewed Goodwin on Bleav in Wizards and it’s also immediately apparent he’s the kind of high-character guy Tommy Sheppard wants around.

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the goodwin interview (link on above RU post) is very good.  Goodwin handles himself very well.   didnt hurt he had billiken hall of famer Larry Hughes asking most of the questions.  😁

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I haven't seen anything reported that says Homesly has a training camp invite.  He was released from his previous contract with the team but brought back for summer league.

The Wizards are set on their 15 roster spots.  Goodwin, Walker, Winston, & Huff have Exhibit 10 contracts, so they need to add 1 more player.

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For a guy who “didn’t stick”, a quick google shows that Willie Reed made an estimated $3.6 million in the NBA. Much of that is probably an over estimation that doesn’t account for the times he was waived. But it shows it doesn’t take much once you are deemed worthy of a contract at all.
 

And that’s without considering the story about his hack, un-certified agent allegedly screwing up a multi-million $ deal at one point.

While we might want more for Jordan as a player than to be a journeyman/fringe player, even that fate is still pretty lucrative financially.

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32 minutes ago, ARon said:

For a guy who “didn’t stick”, a quick google shows that Willie Reed made an estimated $3.6 million in the NBA. Much of that is probably an over estimation that doesn’t account for the times he was waived. But it shows it doesn’t take much once you are deemed worthy of a contract at all.
 

And that’s without considering the story about his hack, un-certified agent allegedly screwing up a multi-million $ deal at one point.

While we might want more for Jordan as a player than to be a journeyman/fringe player, even that fate is still pretty lucrative financially.

Willie had a three-year, $15 million contract offer.  So sad.

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52 minutes ago, ARon said:

For a guy who “didn’t stick”, a quick google shows that Willie Reed made an estimated $3.6 million in the NBA. Much of that is probably an over estimation that doesn’t account for the times he was waived. But it shows it doesn’t take much once you are deemed worthy of a contract at all.
 

And that’s without considering the story about his hack, un-certified agent allegedly screwing up a multi-million $ deal at one point.

While we might want more for Jordan as a player than to be a journeyman/fringe player, even that fate is still pretty lucrative financially.

I certainly don't know all the details, but I think it is safe to say that we don't know if it was the agent or Willie who didn't want to sign the bigger deal.  It is possible that the agent got the offer and told him to take it, but that Willie wanted more.

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4 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I certainly don't know all the details, but I think it is safe to say that we don't know if it was the agent or Willie who didn't want to sign the bigger deal.  It is possible that the agent got the offer and told him to take it, but that Willie wanted more.

The agent instructed Willie to wait until the off season so he could hit the open market.

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3 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I certainly don't know all the details, but I think it is safe to say that we don't know if it was the agent or Willie who didn't want to sign the bigger deal.  It is possible that the agent got the offer and told him to take it, but that Willie wanted more.

This is not necessarily fair. There is reporting that Willie’s agent told him to turn the offer down. At the time, the agent was not certified by the NBA despite acting to clients like he was. That is why Willie filed a $13.5M arbitration case against him.

I also don’t know whether or not that offer was on the table, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that for all we know Willie might’ve told his agent to turn it down.

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4 hours ago, thetorch said:

I haven't seen anything reported that says Homesly has a training camp invite.  He was released from his previous contract with the team but brought back for summer league.

The Wizards are set on their 15 roster spots.  Goodwin, Walker, Winston, & Huff have Exhibit 10 contracts, so they need to add 1 more player.

At the end of the interview he said he's going to continue to workout ....and get ready for our training camp.

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