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O.T. Conference Shuffle ( OU and Texas inquire about joining SEC)


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2 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Does anyone know why Memphis is not going to the big 12?

I think the Memphis football and basketball programs are in good shape.

@HoosierPal posted above that UC, UCF and Houston are 3 of the top 4 non-P5 schools in athletics revenues, and Memphis wasn't in the top 7.  So, despite their success on the field and court, not getting a Big XII invite may have just been a matter of money (despite whatever the Memphis hoops coaching staff is being paid). 

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46 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I'm operating under the assumption the Big East is set. They have 11, which makes for a crisp 20-game schedule. I don't think there's expansion pressure right now. They're solidly a power conference in basketball.

With UC, UCF, and Houston going to the Big XII, the A10 and the Mountain West become the best non-power conferences. If Memphis and Wichita State are stuck in a weaker AAC that might grab a few CUSA schools, SLU might not need to do anything. We just have to keep an open line with those two and the other schools we've mentioned.

The only pressure the BE could get for expansion would be needing to add inventory available to a media partner. 

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Everyone always seems to look at this issue as one where all of a school's sports have to stay in a conference or move to a new conference together.  I believe that some folks think this, because most of our sports compete in the A-10.  It is much more common than you might think for one sports program at a school to be in one conference while the rest are in another or even a few others.

Here's my point, a basketball super conference made up of the best non-football schools out there isn't impossible if you make it a basketball only league.  If SLU got into such a league, we could move our non-revenue sports into the MVC to save on those all important transportation costs, while the basketball team is in a premier basketball conference.

I hope Chris May is constantly working the phones to try to create the best situation for our basketball program.  If we could create a league with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Dayton, Loyola Chicago, Davidson, VCU, Wichita State, Richmond (that's nine).  Maybe add two more of St. Bonaventure, St. Joe's, Belmont, Liberty, Drake, Temple etc. to get to 11 so that we have the same 20 game schedule as the Big East.  The one drawback I always hear about forming a brand new conference is that you have to wait 5 years to get an automatic qualifier.  Who cares?  That league will send 3-5 to the tournament every year.

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The West Coast Conference took a Major hit, lost in all the shuffle is they lost BYU .   basketball

SO if you are UMASS, do you approach the American and try to get an invite , to have a place for their football program???  

 

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1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

Everyone always seems to look at this issue as one where all of a school's sports have to stay in a conference or move to a new conference together.  I believe that some folks think this, because most of our sports compete in the A-10.  It is much more common than you might think for one sports program at a school to be in one conference while the rest are in another or even a few others.

Here's my point, a basketball super conference made up of the best non-football schools out there isn't impossible if you make it a basketball only league.  If SLU got into such a league, we could move our non-revenue sports into the MVC to save on those all important transportation costs, while the basketball team is in a premier basketball conference.

I hope Chris May is constantly working the phones to try to create the best situation for our basketball program.  If we could create a league with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Dayton, Loyola Chicago, Davidson, VCU, Wichita State, Richmond (that's nine).  Maybe add two more of St. Bonaventure, St. Joe's, Belmont, Liberty, Drake, Temple etc. to get to 11 so that we have the same 20 game schedule as the Big East.  The one drawback I always hear about forming a brand new conference is that you have to wait 5 years to get an automatic qualifier.  Who cares?  That league will send 3-5 to the tournament every year.

Why would the MVC take our non revenue sports only. They want our basketball team. They have no incentive to do us a solid

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3 hours ago, brianstl said:

The only pressure the BE could get for expansion would be needing to add inventory available to a media partner. 

IF there are four 16-team mega conferences that form out of this football reshuffling, wouldn't the Big East also have a possible incentive to also grow to 16 to increase their chances of earning NCAA Tournament bids? ...  Of course, that's assuming the Tourney as we know it remains the same or at least similar to the current set-up.

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1 minute ago, ACE said:

IF there are four 16-team mega conferences that form out of this football reshuffling, wouldn't the Big East also have a possible incentive to also grow to 16 to increase their chances of earning NCAA Tournament bids? ...  Of course, that's assuming the Tourney as we know it remains the same or at least similar to the current set-up.

Yes, it's definitely easier to increase the number of bids with more teams (even if the teams you add aren't the ones making the tourney). The question is whether the increased number of bids is worth the extra revenue sharing you have to do now that more teams are added.

I don't expect the Big East to expand. But if they do, I think it will more likely be to 14/16 teams, rather than 12. Like @brianstl said, the incentive would be to increase the TV inventory available and maximize their package with Fox or another provider. 

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1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

Everyone always seems to look at this issue as one where all of a school's sports have to stay in a conference or move to a new conference together.  I believe that some folks think this, because most of our sports compete in the A-10.  It is much more common than you might think for one sports program at a school to be in one conference while the rest are in another or even a few others.

Here's my point, a basketball super conference made up of the best non-football schools out there isn't impossible if you make it a basketball only league.  If SLU got into such a league, we could move our non-revenue sports into the MVC to save on those all important transportation costs, while the basketball team is in a premier basketball conference.

I hope Chris May is constantly working the phones to try to create the best situation for our basketball program.  If we could create a league with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Dayton, Loyola Chicago, Davidson, VCU, Wichita State, Richmond (that's nine).  Maybe add two more of St. Bonaventure, St. Joe's, Belmont, Liberty, Drake, Temple etc. to get to 11 so that we have the same 20 game schedule as the Big East.  The one drawback I always hear about forming a brand new conference is that you have to wait 5 years to get an automatic qualifier.  Who cares?  That league will send 3-5 to the tournament every year.

i dont mind the transportational costs.   i just want the billikens to play like minded schools with similar budgets.    our non revenue sports would likely get eaten alive for most sports in the mvc due to the majority of those schools being public schools with larger budgets for those sports than i bet we have.   for example we get killed playing southwest missouri in baseball and volleyball likely.   

i desire the private like minded schools simply for the likeliness we compete on the same level of academic requirements and expectations.   face it some of the public schools couldnt care less about academics and that is attractive to athletes that are only there to participate in a sport

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10 hours ago, CBFan said:

Does anyone know why Memphis is not going to the big 12?

I think the Memphis football and basketball programs are in good shape.

In 2016, Memphis-based FedEx reached out to the BigXII about a massive corporate sponsorship deal in an attempt to get in the good graces of the conference. Plus, the U of M was about to introduce a $500m capital campaign. In 2021, Memphis is still on the outside looking in.
 

I’m wondering if Memphis is holding on to a card (the SEC) that would keep them viable in some incredibly ripe recruiting ground. I just don’t know, from a facilities standpoint, if the Liberty Bowl is up to snuff. It would be the closest conference game (71 miles) when Ole Miss comes to town. 

Can you imagine GameDay at Graceland? 

 

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12 hours ago, thatskablamo said:

In 2016, Memphis-based FedEx reached out to the BigXII about a massive corporate sponsorship deal in an attempt to get in the good graces of the conference. Plus, the U of M was about to introduce a $500m capital campaign. In 2021, Memphis is still on the outside looking in.
 

I’m wondering if Memphis is holding on to a card (the SEC) that would keep them viable in some incredibly ripe recruiting ground. I just don’t know, from a facilities standpoint, if the Liberty Bowl is up to snuff. It would be the closest conference game (71 miles) when Ole Miss comes to town. 

Can you imagine GameDay at Graceland? 

 

Memphis would have joined the Big XII if invited. They weren't. 

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U of Cincinnati’s on field history has been going to bowl games 14 out of the last 18 seasons, over 5 coaches with short stays. 4 of those have been top tier level bowls, (one this past season, two under Brian Kelly) the rest were mid tier. 

So about two decades of winning at a mid tier level with small pockets of a high level success including the past few seasons. 

UCF has gone to 11 bowl games, mostly mid tier with a couple of exceptions in about the same time period as UC over 3 coaches.

Separately, in basketball, Butler basketball had 10 NCAA trips in 16 seasons before joining the Big East Conference. 2 of those of course were NCAA Runner Up seasons and two other Sweet 16’s.  Creighton had roughly 8 NCAA tourney appearances in 14 seasons prior to joining the Big East.

These are examples of where more recently successful teams, which have been less historically long term successful teams, positioned themselves for their opportunities.

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41 minutes ago, courtside said:

U of Cincinnati’s on field history has been going to bowl games 14 out of the last 18 seasons, over 5 coaches with short stays. 4 of those have been top tier level bowls, (one this past season, two under Brian Kelly) the rest were mid tier. 

So about two decades of winning at a mid tier level with small pockets of a high level success including the past few seasons. 

UCF has gone to 11 bowl games, mostly mid tier with a couple of exceptions in about the same time period as UC over 3 coaches.

Separately, in basketball, Butler basketball had 10 NCAA trips in 16 seasons before joining the Big East Conference. 2 of those of course were NCAA Runner Up seasons and two other Sweet 16’s.  Creighton had roughly 8 NCAA tourney appearances in 14 seasons prior to joining the Big East.

These are examples of where more recently successful teams, which have been less historically long term successful teams, positioned themselves for their opportunities.

Winning is the great panacea. Just. Win. Baby.

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Let’s just be honest, the B12 is run by a group without any vision. If they had a brain, they would bring in Memphis. They needed to make today’s moves a decade ago, but failed. I am not even sure if Memphis should go to the B12, it is such a mess. The B12 will wait for Kansas and Iowa State to announce their moves to the B10, and then invite Memphis.

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1 hour ago, courtside said:

U of Cincinnati’s on field history has been going to bowl games 14 out of the last 18 seasons, over 5 coaches with short stays. 4 of those have been top tier level bowls, (one this past season, two under Brian Kelly) the rest were mid tier. 

So about two decades of winning at a mid tier level with small pockets of a high level success including the past few seasons. 

UCF has gone to 11 bowl games, mostly mid tier with a couple of exceptions in about the same time period as UC over 3 coaches.

Separately, in basketball, Butler basketball had 10 NCAA trips in 16 seasons before joining the Big East Conference. 2 of those of course were NCAA Runner Up seasons and two other Sweet 16’s.  Creighton had roughly 8 NCAA tourney appearances in 14 seasons prior to joining the Big East.

These are examples of where more recently successful teams, which have been less historically long term successful teams, positioned themselves for their opportunities.

The UCF Knights were (self-proclaimed) national champions in football in 2017.

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Again, on field/court factors only, (there are others) Memphis has been and will be getting some discussion about not being included in the Big 12 offers. Part of the reason they are in the discussion is recent football success over a few coaches. But that only goes back 10 seasons. UCF and UC have a bit of a recruiting advantages based on location for high school players (as does Butler in basketball)

But in order to get into a discussion, team xyz has to have been good, competitive, which means mid tier college football bowls w/occasional bigger seasons, as well as stringing together many NCAA basketball tourney appearances for the basketball schools mentioned in those leagues. 10 (or sometimes closer to 15 plus) recent seasons of NCAA tourney hoops success will get someone in the discussion. 

Memphis is even in a discussion because of just the past 10 years of football success. 

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1 hour ago, RUBillsFan said:

This is encouraging. The American is a football conference. The day will come when more schools find competing in FBS football unjustifiably expensive (as UAB did, but without the crazy Alabama boosters). Whether recruiting schools potentially looking to deemphasize basketball (Temple, as Rothsetin proposed, SMU, Tulsa, Memphis, or WKU) or the cream of more lowly basketball (and FCS) conferences (Loyola, Belmont), the A10 seems well positioned to become the #7 basketball conference. 

Obviously a lot of things would need to fall into place for that to happen, but the path is there.

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16 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Let’s just be honest, the B12 is run by a group without any vision. If they had a brain, they would bring in Memphis. They needed to make today’s moves a decade ago, but failed. I am not even sure if Memphis should go to the B12, it is such a mess. The B12 will wait for Kansas and Iowa State to announce their moves to the B10, and then invite Memphis.

The Big 12 tried to expand 5 years ago.  Texas and Oklahoma, according some sources, killed it because they didn't want to make certain concessions.  Those two schools, especially Texas, had been holding the conference hostage a long time.

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3 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Pretty hard to go to a party without an invite

I should have been more specific why they don’t get an invite.

Several posters have made very good points on the reasons why.

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