O.T. Conference Shuffle ( OU and Texas inquire about joining SEC)

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

Just curious what you believe Texas did to the SWC and then the Big 8? Which years were they in the Big 8? 

Texas has always bigfooted their conference partners.  First it caused Arkansas to leave the SWC and then lead to Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri and A&M to leave the Big 12.  

[brianstl]

7 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I have no issues with the State of Texas, but I have always disliked the University of Texas.  Same with the State of Ohio and Ohio State.  I would love it if the SEC said, "Sure, we'll take Oklahoma, but we'd rather have Baylor as the other one.  The U of Texas hasn't been a football power for a while now.

That could very well end up happening.  If that happens OU will have to decide how important their relationship with Texas actually is to them.

Texas isn't going to have the votes needed to get an invite to the SEC.  People think ESPN is pushing for both teams to be added, but in this post cord cutting world there is going to be enough money for ESPN to throw at likes of Arkansas, A&M and Missouri to make them overcome their hostility to adding them.

[thatskablamo]

26 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I'm still not understanding what Texas did to the SWC besides flirt with another conference as the one they were in was as you correctly stated on it's last legs

Again, another Texas campfire tale, but there are people who don’t wear burnt Orange that will tell you Texas AD DeLoss Dodd turned in SMU so that the NCAA wouldn’t move its office (or lynch mob) from Kansas City to Austin. Now, obviously we know that SMU itself killed SMU football, but as George Costanza said “it’s not a lie if you believe it.”

Financially speaking, there was almost a “luxury tax” that Texas, A&M and Arkansas were paying - basically subsidizing the rest of the league via gate profits. Look at Rice, look at SMU’s Ford Stadium and Baylor’s old field - then look at Royal in Austin and Kyle in College Station - shrines to the game - and almost always sold out on Saturday. I think Dodd had enough of making sure the coffers were full in Lubbock and Fort Worth, etc, especially after the glory days of SMU, when they’d play their home games at Texas Stadium in Irving. 

[A10Ref]

23 minutes ago, thatskablamo said:

Again, another Texas campfire tale, but there are people who don’t wear burnt Orange that will tell you Texas AD DeLoss Dodd turned in SMU so that the NCAA wouldn’t move its office (or lynch mob) from Kansas City to Austin. Now, obviously we know that SMU itself killed SMU football, but as George Costanza said “it’s not a lie if you believe it.”

Financially speaking, there was almost a “luxury tax” that Texas, A&M and Arkansas were paying - basically subsidizing the rest of the league via gate profits. Look at Rice, look at SMU’s Ford Stadium and Baylor’s old field - then look at Royal in Austin and Kyle in College Station - shrines to the game - and almost always sold out on Saturday. I think Dodd had enough of making sure the coffers were full in Lubbock and Fort Worth, etc, especially after the glory days of SMU, when they’d play their home games at Texas Stadium in Irving. 

Probably right but nowadays it seems like an annual tradition of TCU beating UT in football

I think this whole thing is just OU and UT getting ahead of the chaos that's going to ensue over the next 3 years. In 2024 the college athletics landscape/conferences are going to be completely different, and I am honestly excited about it.

[thatskablamo]

3 minutes ago, A10Ref said:

Probably right but nowadays it seems like an annual tradition of TCU beating UT in football

I think this whole thing is just OU and UT getting ahead of the chaos that's going to ensue over the next 3 years. In 2024 the college athletics landscape/conferences are going to be completely different, and I am honestly excited about it.

The money TCU alums are making in the Barnett Shale to keep Gary Patterson happy in Fort Worth is worth every penny. It’s a black gold Brinks truck. 

[slufanskip]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

Texas has always bigfooted their conference partners.  First it caused Arkansas to leave the SWC and then lead to Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri and A&M to leave the Big 12.  

When those schools left the Big 12, the main reasoning was Texas not wanting to share revenues from the Longhorn Network. However, what is never mentioned is that Texas first wanted a Big 12 network but no one else thought it worth the investment. So Texas went on their own, when it became successful everyone wanted a piece of the pie. Typical 

[slufanskip]

2 hours ago, thatskablamo said:

Again, another Texas campfire tale, but there are people who don’t wear burnt Orange that will tell you Texas AD DeLoss Dodd turned in SMU so that the NCAA wouldn’t move its office (or lynch mob) from Kansas City to Austin. Now, obviously we know that SMU itself killed SMU football, but as George Costanza said “it’s not a lie if you believe it.”

Financially speaking, there was almost a “luxury tax” that Texas, A&M and Arkansas were paying - basically subsidizing the rest of the league via gate profits. Look at Rice, look at SMU’s Ford Stadium and Baylor’s old field - then look at Royal in Austin and Kyle in College Station - shrines to the game - and almost always sold out on Saturday. I think Dodd had enough of making sure the coffers were full in Lubbock and Fort Worth, etc, especially after the glory days of SMU, when they’d play their home games at Texas Stadium in Irving. 

So still not sure I understand your original statement about what Texas did to the SWC and Big 8. Were you able to find the years Texas was in the Big 8? 

[thatskablamo]

13 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

So still not sure I understand your original statement about what Texas did to the SWC and Big 8. Were you able to find the years Texas was in the Big 8? 

I don’t think Texas did anything personally to the SWC. Sure, they flirted with the California girls of the Pac10, while the Aggies did the same with the southern belles. If anything, the public schools of the SWC looked at private schools as charity cases.

Switzer said it best: “too many little sisters of the poor.”  But you will hear different stories on 6th Street in Austin or at the Dixie Chicken in College Station or at Campisi’s in Dallas about what “really” happened to the SWC. 

[slufanskip]

31 minutes ago, thatskablamo said:

I don’t think Texas did anything personally to the SWC. Sure, they flirted with the California girls of the Pac10, while the Aggies did the same with the southern belles. If anything, the public schools of the SWC looked at private schools as charity cases.

Switzer said it best: “too many little sisters of the poor.”  But you will hear different stories on 6th Street in Austin or at the Dixie Chicken in College Station or at Campisi’s in Dallas about what “really” happened to the SWC. 

Actually I owe you an apology, I was attributing Brighton's original post to you. 

[HoosierPal]

FYI. Add this info to the pot and stir. 

The Big Ten has a TV deal worth $440 million annually to its members that expires in two years. Commissioner Warren’s moves now, realignment not least among them, will help determine how much more lucrative he can make what has become one of the most prominent measuring sticks — television revenue share — in college athletics.

[BilliesBy40]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

FYI. Add this info to the pot and stir. 

The Big Ten has a TV deal worth $440 million annually to its members that expires in two years. Commissioner Warren’s moves now, realignment not least among them, will help determine how much more lucrative he can make what has become one of the most prominent measuring sticks — television revenue share — in college athletics.

TV deals nearing their conclusion is what all of this about. Most (if not all) major conferences are few years out from their deal ending.

[brianstl]

The Big Ten is in trouble.  Changing regional demographics of the country have really hurt the Big 10 going forward.  The South now has more people than the Midwest and Northeast combined.  It is why Notre Dame decided to partner with ACC instead of going with the Big Ten.

In the last wave of major conference realignment there where 8 million more people in the Northeast and Midwest combined than the South.  Now there are two million more people living in the South than the combined amount living in the Northeast and Midwest.  That gap is now growing at an accelerating pace.  The numbers are even more glaring when you talk about those 18 and under.

[TheA_Bomb]

I'm a UT season ticketholder, got a MS from UT and live 3 miles from campus.  I'm excited about this but I understand the trepidation.  This is happening now because of the confluence of a few events:

NIL previously Mack Brown did not want to join the SEC because of underhanded recruiting.  Well now with the NIL that is nullified for big name schools.  Plus Nick Saban told the TX Association of High School Coaches that his QB will make $1mil off NIL.

Big 12 Media deal is ends in 2024.  The Big 12 has the 3rd highest pay out (I think).

Expansion of college play offs to 12 teams.  That will mean that a team could get in with multiple losses.  It is not a done deal but it is moving that direction.  So playing in harder conference won't hurt.

For those wondering about the Longhorn Network (LHN) the pay is backloaded meaning later years pay more currently it's $6mil/year and goes up 1mil/year.  I think it expires in 2030 something.  So Texas could leave some money on the table or could get it negotiated into their deal.

This whole thing is about money from TV deals.  SEC has a deal with ESPN which also runs the LHN.  Therefore, they could work it out with Texas.

A&M leaked this to the media. It is the A&M beat writer for the Houston Chronicle that published the story.  So it's interesting their president is very politically savvy.  Maybe they cry in order to leverage some special treatment.  

SEC needs 11 of 14 votes.  Not sure who would be against it besides A&M.  A&M needs it for recruiting differentiation.  Perhaps LSU because they recruit Texas well and this won't help.  Texas is playing Arkansas this year and I think their fanbase misses that rivalry (though Texas fans don't think of them as rivals).

This is going to be about money and adding Texas and OU to the SEC will make it far and away the best football conference and will give them leverage.  Not to mention Texas just won the Learfield IMG Director's Cup  for best overall athletic program (#3 Baseball, #2 Volleyball, #1 Men's Swimming & Diving, #1 W Rowing, #1 W Tennis, B12 B Ball Tourney Champions, etc etc).  Texas basketball will probably be preseason top 4, OU is pretty good at other sports too. 

But but SEC has Texas market with A&M.  Eh kinda, there are some A&M fans but it is a foothold not the whole state with massive TV markets DFW 6.5mil, Houston 6.5mil, SA, and Austin.  I bet there's more OU fans in Texas than A&M fans.  Texas and OU are national brands that will bring more eyeballs.

I hear people say things about competing in this or that or this player blah blah.  It's not about right now, it's in 4 years.  Plus none of that matters the only guarantee is the money guaranteed by a contract.

Reasons why it might not happen, state legislatures get involved in Texas and Oklahoma trying to save the other B12 schools.

I think it'll happen.  Texas AD Chris Del Conte is really good and gets things done (See Chris Beard hiring, see Tom Herman firing, new endzone development).

I think the B12 will cease to exist as is, the good football, basketball schools will probably be able to go to PAC-12 they want to get into Central Time Zone and need to stay relevant.  Maybe WVU to ACC, maybe ISU to B10.  The remaining join up with the next tier football schools mostly AAC (UH, SMU, Memphis etc).

64 teams in 4 mega conferences of 16 teams each is becoming closer to reality and can break away from the NCAA.

[TheA_Bomb]

HAHAHHAAHAHAHHAAHA

[Cowboy]

-I get most of this conference jumping is about football but isn't the basketball tournament contract between CBS/Turner and the NCAA? I wonder if the lawyers at CBS were smart enough to put an escape in the contract that if something like 64 teams break from the NCAA the deal is void? it appears the current contract goes through the 2032 tourney, if it matters

-would those 64 football schools strike a deal with another provider, or even CBS, to have their own tourney? that would certainly have marketability but that leaves out the BEast and of course a lot of others

-of course, with Notre Dame there are currently 65 teams combined in the ACC, Big 10, SEC, Big 12 and Pac 12

-will be interesting to see how this develops

[A10Ref]

I think it's all going to be chaos. There are going to be 4 16-team ish conferences... I see Big 12 going to Pac-12, Big 10, and ACC (outside of Texas and OU). I also think that there will be some shakeup in the basketball schools.......

[thatskablamo]

12 minutes ago, A10Ref said:

I think it's all going to be chaos. There are going to be 4 16-team ish conferences... I see Big 12 going to Pac-12, Big 10, and ACC (outside of Texas and OU). I also think that there will be some shakeup in the basketball schools.......

This will eventually force the hand of the Irish to the ACC in all sports. I’m sure Swarbrick is wringing his hands this morning. They’ll keep Navy on the schedule, but this may put the USC rivalry game on life support. I just don’t imagine seeing potentially back-to-back road games at Miami then to Los Angeles. Hey, at least some of the kids with NIL money from NetJets will be ok. 
 

I also wonder what the Catholic schools with FCS football programs will do. Duquesne opens their season with a money game at TCU…

[wgstl]

32 minutes ago, A10Ref said:

I think it's all going to be chaos. There are going to be 4 16-team ish conferences... I see Big 12 going to Pac-12, Big 10, and ACC (outside of Texas and OU). I also think that there will be some shakeup in the basketball schools.......

AAC should try and get Baylor and TTU.  Would make for a pretty respectable conference for both sports, but especially basketball. Memphis, Houston, Baylor, and TT - along with Cinci and Wichita state, not bad.

[TheA_Bomb]

My source for all this is Chip Brown of Horns247, he was on the forefront of all this realignment talk back in 2010 when Texas considered going to PAC12.

 

Apparently there is reporting that FOX could make a deal for Texas, OU to go independent then fill out their schedule with B10 and PAC10 schools under their media contracts.

Texas is much maligned for the LHN and destroying SWAC or old B12 but Texas staying back then saved the B12.  Plus I don't care (as a Texas fan) , Texas has to act in their own best self interest and they have the clout to impose their will on other programs. 

 

I think UT, OU to SEC is done deal. The leak is Gaggie trying to leverage getting something out of it as a concession. 

Also some sources state move wouldn't happen until grant of rights expires 2024 but others saying UT and OU would pay the $76mil to leave earlier.

What's this mean for basketball?  Unclear I like the NCAA tournament but it could look very different.   A10 is probably intact as none of the schools are going to be poached for a 64 team super football league.  Is there some type of hybrid 64 Team league vs all others in a tournament for National Championship that the NCAA no longer controls ran by an organization like the CFP committee?  Maybe could make sense.  Bids could be static or dynamic based on some metric (RPI etc), TV deal renegotiated.  My optimum endstate would be that even after all the changes that an NCAA like tournament still exists for the National Championship.   He'll maybe the NIT comes back as the premier tournament and suddenly our 1948 win looks more important. 

Don't fret, there's too much $ to be made with an NCAA style basketball tournament so some option will emerge. 

[NH]

I don't really see how this move would change anything with respect to the NCAA tournament? It would be the same schools wanting to separate before and after all this shakes out. Even if the Big 12 falls apart they are going to have those schools in the BCS or equivalent universe for football. And the NCAA has no financial incentive to keep schools like Gonzaga (let alone the whole of the Big East) out of the basketball tournament. It's not like Duke/UNC/Kentucky are really splitting the NCAA tourney revenue with the mid-majors today. 

[bauman]

While all of this discussion has been about football having bigger stronger super conferences, they would also have stronger basketball conferences.  This could help the Bills by forcing the Big East to grow its numbers and strength.  Clearly that league could be better with the addition of SLU and UD, which would also add some better geographic balance which could help reduce travel expense for the non-revenue sports.

 

[A10Ref]

21 minutes ago, wgstl said:

AAC should try and get Baylor and TTU.  Would make for a pretty respectable conference for both sports, but especially basketball. Memphis, Houston, Baylor, and TT - along with Cinci and Wichita state, not bad.

I think that the Pac 12 will pick up Baylor, Tech, TCU, and Oklahoma st to make a 16 team conference with two divisions. North/West - Oregon, Oregon St, Washington, Washington St, Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA | South/East - Arizona, ASU, Utah, Colorado, Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma St... I think this would actually be a helluva conference for both basketball and football

[A10Ref]

2 minutes ago, bauman said:

While all of this discussion has been about football having bigger stronger super conferences, they would also have stronger basketball conferences.  This could help the Bills by forcing the Big East to grow its numbers and strength.  Clearly that league could be better with the addition of SLU and UD, which would also add some better geographic balance which could help reduce travel expense for the non-revenue sports.

 

I think Big East should grow to 16... Add us, Dayton, VCU, Wichita, and one other - maybe Gonzaga

[wgstl]

AAC may use this opportunity to try and become a football conference, which then would be interesting to see what is done with WSU 

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, A10Ref said:

I think Big East should grow to 16... Add us, Dayton, VCU, Wichita, and one other - maybe Gonzaga

Have a hard time seeing Gonzaga move.