2021-2022 Season

[billiken_roy]

imo the weave is nothing more than controlling the action.   it is a sped up version of the four corners.   the hope being they can milk the clock score at the end.  then get more defensive rebounds and repeat more often that the opponent can score.   nice if you have phil ford like guard that can control the action to the nth degree and other guards that will score more than not when it comes time to go to the basket.  

those are some big if's.   while i know a lot of you like yuri, he isnt phil ford.   and while perkins has turned out to be quite the scorer (i continue to compare him to george gervin) if he is our only true one on one guy well we saw how that turned out once our opponents figured out how good he was.

i still prefer to believe we have the deepest roster in billiken history and the real success formula is to turn up the heat the pace and run in and out our bench.   we should be running the a-10 out of the gym every night instead of running a time consuming weave.   

we shall see though.   my bet is ford doesnt buy in and while he may spend november and december against buy teams playing 10 or 11 players come january we will again see 3 or 4 of those players minutes cut to low single digits and we will be back to running the weave and using 7 or 8 at most players.   sighhh

[slufanskip]

27 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

@ willie ---- I understand what you are saying reference the weave however, the tyhree defenders just stand there in stationary positions and switch off on the men as they switch ball possession.  So the defense does not move and no one ever cuts.  I know a lot of teams do it and that does not make it right for me.  Waste of valuable time ....  if you have trouble bringing th eball upo, you start then with a 20 second half court clock.  Weaving for any amount of time wastes more precious seconds and puts you straight into 'hero" mode.  Of course, my opinion.

I'll watch more closely thi syear and see if anything special develops off the weave.  

I wove a nice basket (at least it seemed nice at the time) in Boy Scouts and earned the  basket weaving merit badge.

 

[slufanskip]

15 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

imo the weave is nothing more than controlling the action.   it is a sped up version of the four corners.   the hope being they can milk the clock score at the end.  then get more defensive rebounds and repeat more often that the opponent can score.   nice if you have phil ford like guard that can control the action to the nth degree and other guards that will score more than not when it comes time to go to the basket.  

those are some big if's.   while i know a lot of you like yuri, he isnt phil ford.   and while perkins has turned out to be quite the scorer (i continue to compare him to george gervin) if he is our only true one on one guy well we saw how that turned out once our opponents figured out how good he was.

i still prefer to believe we have the deepest roster in billiken history and the real success formula is to turn up the heat the pace and run in and out our bench.   we should be running the a-10 out of the gym every night instead of running a time consuming weave.   

we shall see though.   my bet is ford doesnt buy in and while he may spend november and december against buy teams playing 10 or 11 players come january we will again see 3 or 4 of those players minutes cut to low single digits and we will be back to running the weave and using 7 or 8 at most players.   sighhh

When Yuri is in we do push the pace when the opportunity presents itself, but it's tough to run off made baskets and some defensive boards. You can't run on a defense that beats you back. I'm in agreement we should be pushing the pace when the opportunity is there. But when it's not we have to be able to operate out of a half court set. I don't want to be last years LSU team that pushed the ball up every time even when they shouldn't and many, many times the first guy up the court just jacked up a stupid shot. 

[billiken_roy]

36 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

When Yuri is in we do push the pace when the opportunity presents itself, 

pre january last year, i agree but thereafter not so much.

[Taj79]

@ skip --- no disagreement there.  But if Yuri is "pushing the pace" the weave is then the detrimental opposite of that.  I would likely embrace the weave action if there was some sort of series of plays run off said weave.  If the weave action were leading to a back cut on one ocassion, a slip screen cut, low post players cutting into the paint for an entry pass ... something.  As I said, I will pay more attention to what the secondary action is once the weave has ended, but what I saw last year was three SLU players going through the motions on three weave hand-offs resulting in a helter-skelter fire drill after that.  And I swear the defense just stood there as if in a zone, waiting for the "attack" to begin.  

And I got that same merit badge!

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

pre january last year, i agree but thereafter not so much.

I would agree with that. We were clearly lethargic after the covid pause. Then Yuri gets hurt and was never really the same afterwards. We need another guard with vision who can push the ball up the floor. JGood did well as a sub pg however he generally pushes with the dribble. Yuri looks up and doesn't hesitate to push the ball with a long pass. Maybe Rashad Williams can be that guy. 

[slufanskip]

11 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

@ skip --- no disagreement there.  But if Yuri is "pushing the pace" the weave is then the detrimental opposite of that.  I would likely embrace the weave action if there was some sort of series of plays run off said weave.  If the weave action were leading to a back cut on one ocassion, a slip screen cut, low post players cutting into the paint for an entry pass ... something.  As I said, I will pay more attention to what the secondary action is once the weave has ended, but what I saw last year was three SLU players going through the motions on three weave hand-offs resulting in a helter-skelter fire drill after that.  And I swear the defense just stood there as if in a zone, waiting for the "attack" to begin.  

And I got that same merit badge!

You would only run the weave in a half court set obviously. It has nothing to do with when Yuri is pushing the pace except for ( and I'm assuming it's your point ) the fact that it generally seems to be just wasted time. I'm not necessarily a fan, however, when you have a team who's offense can get stagnant resulting in a lot of standing around it at least gets people moving. 

[Taj79]

@ skip --- you got my point, however my complaint is likely movement with no real destination or purpose.  Getting people moving doesn't put the biscuit in the basket.  Peace.

[billiken_roy]

29 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I would agree with that. We were clearly lethargic after the covid pause. Then Yuri gets hurt and was never really the same afterwards. We need another guard with vision who can push the ball up the floor. JGood did well as a sub pg however he generally pushes with the dribble. Yuri looks up and doesn't hesitate to push the ball with a long pass. Maybe Rashad Williams can be that guy. 

from what i see with his past stats, i am not expecting williams to be any sort of a distribution guy.   i see a gunner.   if so and he makes the shots so be it.  but i fear not the case.   i am in show me mode on williams.

[slufanskip]

27 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

from what i see with his past stats, i am not expecting williams to be any sort of a distribution guy.   i see a gunner.   if so and he makes the shots so be it.  but i fear not the case.   i am in show me mode on williams.

Agreed, What gives me some hope is his comments regarding wanting to be more of an all around player. I'm of the opinion though that anyone with good handles and speed can push the ball with the dribble, ala JGood, however the ability to do what Yuri does with the pass from the backcourt is born not bred. 

With Yuri healthy I'm not at all worried about the pg position. I'm extremely high on Yuri and what he brings to the game with or without a scoring bump. However, with the way he plays, taking charges, etc ... I worry about his ability to stay healthy and right now the next guy up is a huge drop off unless Williams can capably fill the void

[3star_recruit]

He doesn't have Yuri's court vision but when it comes to pushing the ball from end to end and attacking the basket, that's Nesbitt's strength.  In fact I expect him to be more effective at it, at 6'6, than Yuri is.  That's the part of Yuri's game that doesn't really translate from high school.  Occasionally he can get from end to end and finish.  As a senior at St. Mary's, he made a living at it.

[slufanskip]

21 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

He doesn't have Yuri's court vision but when it comes to pushing the ball from end to end and attacking the basket, that's Nesbitt's strength.  In fact I expect him to be more effective at it, at 6'6, than Yuri is.  That's the part of Yuri's game that doesn't really translate from high school.  Occasionally he can get from end to end and finish.  As a senior at St. Mary's, he made a living at it.

I'd agree if you're taking the ball himself, what Yuri does better than anyone I've ever seen in a Bills uni is push the ball up via the pass which is always faster than the dribble. 

[HoosierPal]

Another A10 team landing a MTE gig

 

[A10Ref]

16 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Another A10 team landing a MTE gig

 

pretty average tournament... Colorado and Creighton would be a great play but I am so incredibly fine not playing northeastern, brown, bradley, csu, or SIUC...

[Billikenbooster]

On 5/15/2021 at 11:45 AM, billiken_roy said:

from what i see with his past stats, i am not expecting williams to be any sort of a distribution guy.   i see a gunner.   if so and he makes the shots so be it.  but i fear not the case.   i am in show me mode on 

 

Roy, I think back to Isabel. Coach was going to make him into a point guard. That didn’t work out too well and his best contributions came when he was shooting.

 

Let’s see if coach can convert Williams into something different than what he has been in the past. Maybe he was that way because that’s what his team needed him to do.

[ACE]

30 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

 

Roy, I think back to Isabel. Coach was going to make him into a point guard. That didn’t work out too well and his best contributions came when he was shooting.

 

Let’s see if coach can convert Williams into something different than what he has been in the past. Maybe he was that way because that’s what his team needed him to do.

Big difference between Isabell and Williams. Isabell had playmaking as part of his game before he got here - he averaged over 3 apg the season before arriving at SLU.  Williams has averaged less than 1 apg in two of his three seasons. Btw, Isabell led SLU in assists during his one season, so not all bad.

[3star_recruit]

Isabel was one of the top combo guards on the transfer market.  He played a lot of point guard for us because frankly we didn't have a point guard.  Now we have a point guard and we just need another scoring guard who can be a secondary playmaker.

I have a lot of confidence that Nesbitt is that guy -- it's his long range consistency that's in question. Williams' 3 pt shooting and ability to create his own shot are his most important assets IMO.  If he can give us a couple of assists a  game, that's just a bonus.

[cgeldmacher]

On 5/15/2021 at 8:40 AM, Taj79 said:

@ willie ---- I understand what you are saying reference the weave however, the tyhree defenders just stand there in stationary positions and switch off on the men as they switch ball possession.  So the defense does not move and no one ever cuts.  I know a lot of teams do it and that does not make it right for me.  Waste of valuable time ....  if you have trouble bringing th eball upo, you start then with a 20 second half court clock.  Weaving for any amount of time wastes more precious seconds and puts you straight into 'hero" mode.  Of course, my opinion.

I'll watch more closely thi syear and see if anything special develops off the weave.  

Taj, I have to disagree with you too.  The weave is just intended to get a play or a "look" started.  It is much harder to get guys all on the proper timing for something you want to do offensively if the point guard brings the ball up, stops at the top of the key, and then everyone looks at each other wondering when to start.  The weave is always setting up some manner in which the coaches want to start the play and gets everyone moving into a rhythm for being in the right spot.

Last year it was used most often to get the ball inside to French so that we could play the inside out game.  The ball would get handed off two or three times and always end up on the opposite side of where French started.  French would, in sync with the last hand off, head to the side where the ball was.  At that point, he and the ball handler were on one side and everyone else was drawing their defenders to the other side.  This isolated French with his back to the defender so that we could get the ball to him without much of any traffic.  Then, the play starts.

[billiken_roy]

6 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Taj, I have to disagree with you too.  The weave is just intended to get a play or a "look" started.  It is much harder to get guys all on the proper timing for something you want to do offensively if the point guard brings the ball up, stops at the top of the key, and then everyone looks at each other wondering when to start.  The weave is always setting up some manner in which the coaches want to start the play and gets everyone moving into a rhythm for being in the right spot.

Last year it was used most often to get the ball inside to French so that we could play the inside out game.  The ball would get handed off two or three times and always end up on the opposite side of where French started.  French would, in sync with the last hand off, head to the side where the ball was.  At that point, he and the ball handler were on one side and everyone else was drawing their defenders to the other side.  This isolated French with his back to the defender so that we could get the ball to him without much of any traffic.  Then, the play starts.

Yeah that was so successful all year

[AnkielBreakers]

On 5/15/2021 at 8:55 AM, billiken_roy said:

imo the weave is nothing more than controlling the action.   it is a sped up version of the four corners.   the hope being they can milk the clock score at the end.  then get more defensive rebounds and repeat more often that the opponent can score.   nice if you have phil ford like guard that can control the action to the nth degree and other guards that will score more than not when it comes time to go to the basket.  

those are some big if's.   while i know a lot of you like yuri, he isnt phil ford.   and while perkins has turned out to be quite the scorer (i continue to compare him to george gervin) if he is our only true one on one guy well we saw how that turned out once our opponents figured out how good he was.

i still prefer to believe we have the deepest roster in billiken history and the real success formula is to turn up the heat the pace and run in and out our bench.   we should be running the a-10 out of the gym every night instead of running a time consuming weave.   

we shall see though.   my bet is ford doesnt buy in and while he may spend november and december against buy teams playing 10 or 11 players come january we will again see 3 or 4 of those players minutes cut to low single digits and we will be back to running the weave and using 7 or 8 at most players.   sighhh

I caught 10-20 minutes of an NBA game a few weeks back. This was a good NBA team. They ran the weave for the first 5-10 seconds every time down the floor. Maybe it isn’t such a bush league tactic.

[billiken_roy]

was it houston?  they are bad enough i can see them trying to stall as long as possible in an effort to keep the other team under 200 points

[Taj79]

Like I said, I'll watch much closer this year.  Maybe I can see it frontloading something ----I just never saw anything that was something once the weave action was over.    Although the ball down to French makes sense.

[AnkielBreakers]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Like I said, I'll watch much closer this year.  Maybe I can see it frontloading something ----I just never saw anything that was something once the weave action was over.    Although the ball down to French makes sense.

The thing the weave could tell you is how the defense is playing you.

[Taj79]

@AnkielBreakers---- absolutely not true.  More times than not, the three guys playing defense just stood there and switched.  That I did see.

[BilliesBy40]

8 hours ago, Taj79 said:

@AnkielBreakers---- absolutely not true.  More times than not, the three guys playing defense just stood there and switched.  That I did see.

Switching is exactly what @AnkielBreakersmeans