GDT: Selection Show

[White Pelican]

You can’t threaten to leave if you have nowhere to go. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

As long as SLU remains in the A10, I never again want to see the Atlantic 10 Conference (a) advancing its Men’s Basketball Tournament one week before into “Valley weekend,” the province of the mid-majors and low cons, and (b) holding said Tournament any further south than Washington, D.C. The Tournament needs to be played Selection Sunday weekend in Brooklyn.

The A10 again vacates Brooklyn for the ACC in ‘22, with the A10 Tourney in Washington, D.C., returns to Brooklyn in ‘23 and ‘24. 

I also recommend SLU ask the A10 Commissioner a number of key questions about this Men’s basketball season, and demand real answers.

[mrjoelabs]

43 minutes ago, Adman said:

Clock, agree with so many of your points. However, am wondering about your last sentence. If we leave, where do we go? Very limited options, if any. Better options don't seem possible, at least at this time. And the ones which might be possible? They're either worse or no better.

The AAC.  UConn football can fill our void.

[stmdragons]

6 hours ago, mrjoelabs said:

The AAC.  UConn football can fill our void.

Is the AAC really an upgrade over the A10? Seems like a lateral move at best.

[mrjoelabs]

23 minutes ago, stmdragons said:

Is the AAC really an upgrade over the A10? Seems like a lateral move at best.

Based on how Wichita was treated I would say yes.

[CBFan]

13 hours ago, TaLBErt said:

Lol, you have no respect for me? 

I'm allowed to be disappointed in the results today, and I'm allowed to make snarky comments about the school I attended.

My guess is Joran regrets his decision to attend Saint Louis University just like I do. 

No I have no respect for you and I doubt you attend games and sit near the Goodwin family like I do.

You try to bypass the argument by setting up the I am disappointed in the results.  Had you said that I would not have posted what I did because your post was about how Jordan Goodwin felt so stop the BS man up and argue about the subject of your post.

I have season tickets in section 101 about 10 rows behind the Goodwin's next to the tunnel the SLU players come in and out of.  The Goodwin's get to see their son every game interact with Jordan and other players every single home game.  It is really neat to watch how close they are.  I can only assume Jordan picked SLU because of Ford and his family and if you ever have a chance to meet him ask if that is why he came to SLU.  Jordan might not be disappointed at all.

[Adman]

3 minutes ago, mrjoelabs said:

Based on how Wichita was treated I would say yes.

But takes two to tango. In 2017 when AAC sought to expand by one, only Wichita State, Dayton and VCU were considered. Not us. Is now different? 

[HoosierPal]

8 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Two points:

1.  Agreed.  The A10 did no favors to help SLU this year.  In fact, it's policies worked against SLU.   When COVID negatively affected Ohio State's football team which did not have enough games to qualify for the postseason as per Big 10 rules, the Big 10 Conference stepped in and changed the rules to help  its preseason favorite.  SLU basketball is not on par with Ohio State Football - I get it - but SLU was a preseason favorite to win or contend for the A10 Championship, was loaded with 3 quality Seniors who each succeeded individually as Juniors before their team had its season abruptly end like all other team, was successful this year in their return against P5 schools before its COVID pause and clearly was hammered hard by COVID.  And while I get the thought of "building in" a week gap in the middle of the A10 Tourney, this decision clearly hurt SLU and other programs by denying them what they needed -- to play games.   And while I make no apology for or intend to defend the Committee for "not following its rules" regarding NET as it relates to the SLU, I would argue that SLU playing far less games than many programs helped make SLU's NET rating more suspect.   And while SLU lost only 6 games, its losses to LaSalle, second loss to UD and loss to St. Bona were not just bad losses but were embarrassing blow outs.  2 extra games would have certainly helped SLU.  Then, again, why did the A10 not arrange for SLU to make up more games prior to the final season?  The baseball Cardinals played double header after double header and damn near played as many games as the others.  The STL Blues and and the NHL are playing multiple games against the same opponents and even moved to this season only to a realigned Western Conference.   Loyola and Drake played a full schedule in part by the "home and away" games in the Valley.  Not the A10 -- it made no changes other than to shorten its season.  And don't forget that SLU lost a key game against Richmond where we flew out to the Richmond only to leave with no game?  Richmond didn't properly interpret the league COVID rules?  Wasn't that the case claimed also by the team to play Richmond after us?   And for this "leadership", Richmond was made a host of the A10 Tourney?  And as much as I believe the Committee is still conference slotting, why would the A10 get more bids than the other mid majors or worse?  Optics are important.   When we play our Championship game in Madison Square Garden the same weekend as the P5 guys, we look more like them.  But when we play our Tourney the week prior, the same weekend as the lesser conferences, the A10 looks lesser and gets treated as a lesser conference.  For that decision alone, the A10 Commissioner should summarily be fired for setting the conference back for years.

2.  Chris May, by many accounts, is a nice guy, returns emails, warmly greets posters at away games, displays his his passion while yelling at the refs during home games and now has both soccer programs playing good as well... but where was he when our program needed to make up games?  When rules could have been changed to help SLU but which were changed to hurt SLU?  And where was  Dr. P ?  Dayton got the championship game and not SLU?  And with longevity, should there not also be power?  How many more senior AD's are there in the A10 than Chris May?  And why can SLU never get anyone with connections with the A10? with the NCAA and/or Tournament Committee?  Debbie Yow had these connections but I don't believe anyone has come close since her.   Yes, we are long overdue for someone at SLU (AD May, the Board of Trustees, Coach Ford) to put its foot down and demand better -- and if not, then we leave.  

I agree with most of this, but some items need further input. 

How many extra days off did SLU have to take due solely to the City of STL covid regs?  Simply from reading about other pauses, it seemed to me that our guys were sidelined longer, and with more stringent guidelines, than other teams.  I don't know this for sure, but it sure seemed to be the case.  This also came to light during the MVC Tourney, when the City Health Dept  shut down the Drake-UNI game, with the Conference willing to play it according to their rules.  It seems that the City had specific rules for sports teams, which didn't make any sense.  (In retrospect, it was a great decision not to hold the A10 Tourney in StLou under the City of STL rules.)  I have no problem with the league holding the tourney in Richmond.  They had two facilities in the same Health Dept district.  Having VCU play at home, though, wasn't ethical.

I agree, after the fact, that moving the A10 Tourney up a week was a mistake.  It did throw out two games for every team.  Put two more wins, even Q3 wins, on our resume and it changes.  Make up games though, it takes two teams to play.  Yes there was a lot of shuffling going on in the league, but adding two more games into the limited time frame isn't as easy as you might think.

At first I thought leagues playing back to back games was foolish, but in retrospect, it looks like they made a wise decision.  But how would that have impacted SLU?  Would we have lost two games at Richmond? 

To put blame on Chris May is a simple cry in the uninhibited forest.  Who did the staff call?  Did they sit on their hands and do nothing?  Did they make numerous calls to be rebuffed on the other end?  Unless you know the facts, you are simply trying to find a scape goat.  I won't go there.

We ain't moving anywhere.  This has been discussed several hundred times on this board.

[Clock_Tower]

Hoosier

As to your first point, I honestly don't know why Team Blue was sidelined for so long. Was some of this self-imposed? Your theory about the City of St. Louis may be true, but that only applies to home games.  Was the City of St. Louis more restrictive than New York City, Philadelphia and Washington DC?  Why no away games if our team was cleared to play?  Highschool teams were practicing and playing games in St. Charles County to circumvent strict St. Louis County rules.  Extreme bad luck? I am NOT placing blame on those who actually tested positive but I am looking in the mirror and wondering what protocols were being followed or not followed which obviously resulted in so many positive test cases over such an extended period of time.  2/3's of my office tested positive, temporary shut down and deep clean followed, but not for 30 days!

Yes, it takes 2 teams to play but I look to the SEC and how they handled football games.   Some programs tested positive more than others but the league stepped in and changed the original schedule, for the whole league, to make sure that 1 team did not miss too many games.  The SEC also used the off week before the conference championship to make up games and even had other teams not playing in the conference championship making up the games the same date as the conference championship. I recall absolutely no changes to our original A10 schedule other than moving up the conference tournament and missing 2 games, again to give the optics of a low mid-major conference.  Brilliant idea!  Why not make up the 2 games while we were waiting for St. Bona and VCU to play.?  Could the A10 not have lined up a game between SLU and Davidson?  Was it up to Coach Ford to schedule a game with a team like Xavier?  Where was the A10 when we needed them?

No doubt Chris May was concerned and I hope even upset. And I sure hope he made some phone calls and wrote a letter or two.  But my point is - where are the results? SLU has little power in the A10. Any phone calls and letters mean nothing and do nothin.  When SLU entered the A10 league, the A10 felt it did SLU a favor.   When Dayton joined the A10, Dayton immediately received the right to host to the A10 Tourney, and Dayton was not a good basketball back then. The A10 is an East Coast league with East Coast bias.  Too many teams from Philly, DC and Richmond area.  With that said, we have not won enough to demand things (still paying the price for Soderberg, S1 and S2, and Crews) and we have chosen not to hire administrators and Presidents with East Coast connections either.  But soccer and baseball are now winning, and the lights are still being turned on, so all is good with Billiken athletics!

[Deutschkind]

8 hours ago, mrjoelabs said:

Based on how Wichita was treated I would say yes.

Is that an AAC thing, or the fact that Wichita State has made the Final Four thing?

[mrjoelabs]

3 minutes ago, Deutschkind said:

Is that an AAC thing, or the fact that Wichita State has made the Final Four thing?

Good point. That is our biggest problem..teams like Wichita, Loyola and VCU are now "name" programs and get the benefit of the doubt. We don't...  Never even made it to the second weekend.

[almaman]

On 3/14/2021 at 5:43 PM, Old guy said:

OK so this replacement 3 is like a totally meaningless position, correct?

Like The Second Gentleman.

[mrjoelabs]

No one is going to admit they have COVID at this point. I am sure there are positives but they will just cover it up. Especially at the "BIG" Schools

[Zink]

55 minutes ago, mrjoelabs said:

No one is going to admit they have COVID at this point. I am sure there are positives but they will just cover it up. Especially at the "BIG" Schools

One down...

[rgbilliken]

3 minutes ago, Zink said:

One down...

Does this mean that one member of GaTech won’t be able to participate, or the whole team? 

[Zink]

Just now, rgbilliken said:

Does this mean that one member of GaTech won’t be able to participate, or the whole team? 

Good question. I read it as they were withdrawing the team, but that seems not to be the case on reading further. 
 

What a ridiculous standard the NCAA is setting on this. How is every member of the travel party not a “close contact”

[Bay Area Billiken]

On 3/15/2021 at 6:33 AM, HoosierPal said:

 I have no problem with the league holding the tourney in Richmond.  They had two facilities in the same Health Dept district.  Having VCU play at home, though, wasn't ethical.

I agree, after the fact, that moving the A10 Tourney up a week was a mistake.  It did throw out two games for every team.  Put two more wins, even Q3 wins, on our resume and it changes.  Make up games though, it takes two teams to play.  Yes there was a lot of shuffling going on in the league, but adding two more games into the limited time frame isn't as easy as you might think.

 

The Atlantic 10 that SLU joined in 2005 was just that, the Atlantic 10 Conference, not the Southern 4 League.  Moving that A10 Tournament to Richmond, VA gave too much of a hometown advantage to VCU, and then the A10 compounded the issue by letting VCU play its 2 A10 Tourney games on its home court.

The A10 made early moves, when Brooklyn was still on lockdown, no fans allowed.  The A10 moved too quickly.  No other conference made these types of seemingly rash moves.

Sometimes the best move is no move.

[slufan13]

Teams have 3 more hours to opt out I believe. Looks like we are not getting that miracle bid. Going to be annoying when Virginia and others have to forfeit though 

[brianstl]

7 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Teams have 3 more hours to opt out I believe. Looks like we are not getting that miracle bid. Going to be annoying when Virginia and others have to forfeit though 

@Box and Won @slufanskip We demand answers.  What happened to the monkeys?

[SLU_Nick]

"The individual is asymptomatic, according to Pastner. No other members of the team were deemed close contacts through contact tracing." 

Hahah, this is just a farce at this point.  Just stop talking about Covid if there is actually no way to be disqualified unless it is self-elimination.  No team is going to self-eliminate.  Kansas, Georgia Tech and UVA should all be out if the NCAA followed through with the plan they said.  

[kshoe]

15 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Teams have 3 more hours to opt out I believe. Looks like we are not getting that miracle bid. Going to be annoying when Virginia and others have to forfeit though 

I wonder how it works with the NCAA units ($1.8mm per). If a team opts out, I assume they don't get paid and the replacement team does.

If the game is forfeited do neither teams get the units for that game? Will CBS/TBS/TNT reduce the payout to the NCAA because fewer games were played? Are they really going to ask schools and their health departments to make 50/50 type decision in the grey area of contract tracing that are directly related to losing $1.8mm in revenue?

[SLU_Nick]

2 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I wonder how it works with the NCAA units ($1.8mm per). If a team opts out, I assume they don't get paid and the replacement team does.

If the game is forfeited do neither teams get the units for that game? Will CBS/TBS/TNT reduce the payout to the NCAA because fewer games were played? Are they really going to ask schools and their health departments to make 50/50 type decision in the grey area of contract tracing that are directly related to losing $1.8mm in revenue?

No one is going to self-eliminate.  If the NCAA is relying on that then it is basically a stance against safety.  

It might be the biggest conflict of interest of all time.

[brianstl]

4 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

"The individual is asymptomatic, according to Pastner. No other members of the team were deemed close contacts through contact tracing." 

Hahah, this is just a farce at this point.  Just stop talking about Covid if there is actually no way to be disqualified unless it is self-elimination.  No team is going to self-eliminate.  Kansas, Georgia Tech and UVA should all be out if the NCAA followed through with the plan they said.  

The earliest UVA can even go to Indianapolis is Friday.  All teams were supposed to have reported to Indianapolis yesterday.  So much for protocols.  

If the GA Tech positive is a player, there is no way there wasn't close contact.  The players were all over each other after they won the conference championship.

[slufanskip]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

@Box and Won @slufanskip We demand answers.  What happened to the monkeys?

They’re f.cking sick. Coach Ford threw a party for them 

[White Pelican]

Monkeys just wanna have fun!