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Transfers - 2021


ACE

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13 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

Relegated makes it sound like that was a coaching staff decision, his complete lack of ball skills is why he was relegated to being a stand still shooter. I know folks who watched him in high school had some concerns with how his game would translate to the high major level (apparently scored a lot of his points at the rim playing as more of a 6'4 bully at the Class 3 level) and those concerns played out. He is so inept with the ball that his only role at the high major level was to become a lights out 3 point shooter. He just can't be a volume scorer at that level.

Alot of prior discussions about our players and coaches, player development and how hard it is to change one’s game. Doesn’t appear to have been much development of Watson by Cuonzo Martin or by Watson himself. Not seeing much development of other players in Columbia either. And when I read your comments about Watson being a 6’4”, talented, 4 star guy struggling in high level D1 with limited dribbling and perimeter skills still relying upon what worked in high school, I think of a different 6’4” talented guy of our own who appears to be excelling in high level D1 by changing himself into a completely different player than the successful one he was in high school - Terrance Hargrove. 
 

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26 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Alot of prior discussions about our players and coaches, player development and how hard it is to change one’s game. Doesn’t appear to have been much development of Watson by Cuonzo Martin or by Watson himself. Not seeing much development of other players in Columbia either. And when I read your comments about Watson being a 6’4”, talented, 4 star guy struggling in high level D1 with limited dribbling and perimeter skills still relying upon what worked in high school, I think of a different 6’4” talented guy of our own who appears to be excelling in high level D1 by changing himself into a completely different player than the successful one he was in high school - Terrance Hargrove. 
 

i saw hargrove a lot in high school.   you need to help me with this "change".

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22 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i saw hargrove a lot in high school.   you need to help me with this "change".

I didnt see much of him in hs, but I didnt think he had much of a shot in HS. Here he is shooting over 40% from 3.  

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20 hours ago, Coach314 said:

Watson didn't receive his ranking from his high school achievements.  He got it from AAU.  Gordon, Ramey, Watson were all on TeamRamey and were ranked in 8th grade.  Mizzou just wasn't a good fit for Torrance 

Apparently Texas wasn’t either. 

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34 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Alot of prior discussions about our players and coaches, player development and how hard it is to change one’s game. Doesn’t appear to have been much development of Watson by Cuonzo Martin or by Watson himself. Not seeing much development of other players in Columbia either. And when I read your comments about Watson being a 6’4”, talented, 4 star guy struggling in high level D1 with limited dribbling and perimeter skills still relying upon what worked in high school, I think of a different 6’4” talented guy of our own who appears to be excelling in high level D1 by changing himself into a completely different player than the successful one he was in high school - Terrance Hargrove. 
 

That is kind of the thing, I don't think he is very talented nor do I think he was deserving of a 4 star recruiting ranking. Maybe you meant to respond to a different post? What he was in high school just did not translate to the high major level and many had those questions on the front end despite the recruiting ranking. He was able to dominate bullying his way to the rim in Missouri Class 3 ball. He just isn't strong enough or athletic enough to do that in college and that isn't even touching on the fact that his ball skills are definitely low major caliber. So he rightfully tried to become more of a standstill 3 point shooter (3-and-D guy), but hasn't proven to be able to shoot the ball nor defend well enough to succeed in that role. He seems like a really good teammate so I don't want to pile on him, but he was definitely an odd player to watch, I don't know if it is a lack of coordination or what. I think he is going to a level that probably is more in line with the caliber of player he is.

I am not a Cuonzo Martin fan at all, so no need to get into that.

Is Hargrove excelling an agreed upon stance on here?

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To me, Hargrove is halfway up the mountain.  If it is to be believed that his fundamentals were non-existent when he got here, seeing the floor and shooting 40% from three are definite positives.  The next half of the mountain will be either starting or playing 20 to 25 minutes per game.  That would be achieving the excelling rating.  TO ME.

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56 minutes ago, wgstl said:

I didnt see much of him in hs, but I didnt think he had much of a shot in HS. Here he is shooting over 40% from 3.  

He shot 38% from 3 as a Junior. I haven't found his stats as a Senior. His game hasn't changed much, although his shooting has improved a tick.

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1 minute ago, BilliesBy40 said:

He shot 38% from 3 as a Junior. I haven't found his stats as a Senior. His game hasn't changed much, although his shooting has improved a tick.

Thanks,  like I said I really only saw highlights etc. and it rarely seemed like it was anything outside of 10 feet.  But those dont get the clicks dunks get.

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

To me, Hargrove is halfway up the mountain.  If it is to be believed that his fundamentals were non-existent when he got here, seeing the floor and shooting 40% from three are definite positives.  The next half of the mountain will be either starting or playing 20 to 25 minutes per game.  That would be achieving the excelling rating.  TO ME.

This is in line with my thoughts as well. I love Hargrove, but the term excelling seemed a bit aggressive.

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Okay, now the Artest son SLU briefly showed interest in is recruiting - Jeron Artest is leaving UC-Irvine, not to be confused (again, by me) with Ron Artest III, who left CSU-Northridge.

Deivon Smith (had a SLU offer) left Mississippi State and is going to Georgia Tech.

Aundre Hyatt is leaving LSU. Got a SLU offer in Ford's early days in spring 2016.

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4 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

This in line with my thoughts as well. I love Hargrove, but the term excelling seemed a bit aggressive.

I think Hargrove is on the path most quality College players take.

He comes in as a freshman and get spot minutes while learning the system and what he needs to do.

Sophomore season, earn more minutes and improve on what you learned as a freshman.

Junior year big contributor. 

Senior year even bigger contributor.

 

I think this is how most players should develop at the college level. 
The problem is that the Bills haven’t been deep enough to develop players this way. We have been forced to throw freshman into big minute.

With the depth they have now they can develop players properly.

This isn’t the method for all players but I think most fit into this mold.

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Names of SLU interest in the portal, updated. Current school in parentheses, followed by next year's class status and expected remaining eligibility, including COVID bonus year.

Deivon Smith (Mississippi State) to Georgia Tech, Torrence Watson (Mizzou) to Elon, Woody Newton (Syracuse) to Oklahoma State, and Jamal Mashburn, Jr. (Minnesota) to New Mexico. They have been removed from the list.

Had an offer from SLU at some point:
-John Bol Ajak (Syracuse) - Freshman, 4 Years
-Madut Akec (South Florida) - Junior, 3 Years
-Myles Baker (Central Connecticut State) - Junior, 3 Years
-Dudley Blackwell (Iowa State) - Sophomore, 4 Years
-Kevin Easley (TCU) - Junior, 3 Years - Hearing from GW, Bowling Green, Western Michigan, Portland, UC-Santa Barbara, UIC.

-Kobe Elvis (DePaul) - Sophomore, 4 Years - Hearing from Clemson, Dayton, Drake, VCU, Georgia, Iowa State, TCU, Colorado, Cal, Boston College, Colorado State, Grand Canyon.
-Cam'Ron Fletcher (Kentucky) - Sophomore, 4 Years - Has heard from SLU, Mizzou, Florida State, Memphis, Georgetown, USC, UCLA, Loyola-Chicago, Tennessee, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, San Diego State, Washington, Marquette, St. Mary's.
-Baylor Hebb (Loyola-Chicago) - Sophomore, 4 Years
-D.J. Horne (Illinois State) - Junior, 3 Years - Hearing from Davidson, VCU, Marquette, Nebraska, Colorado, Colorado State, Cal, Washington State, Iona, FGCU, Charlotte, UNCW, Murray State, Arizona State, Elon, New Mexico, USF, FIU, Ball State, East Carolina, NC A&T, Charleston, Northeastern. Committing Saturday (4/17) at 1 pm.
-Aundre Hyatt (LSU) - Junior, 3 Years - Considering Georgia, Texas A&M, Cincinnati, Pitt, Penn State, Boston College, others.
-Jalen Johnson (Mississippi State) - Grad Transfer, 1 Year
-Martice Mitchell (Minnesota) - Sophomore, 4 Years
-Gethro Muscadin (Kansas) - Sophomore, 4 Years - Hearing from Rutgers, Penn State, New Mexico, UNLV, UTSA, Colorado State, Sam Houston State.
-Josh Nickelberry (Louisville) - Junior, 3 Years - Hearing from Indiana, Clemson, Grand Canyon, Boston College, Wichita State, Elon, Georgia State, Texas A&M, UNC-Wilmington. 
-Mickey Pearson (TCU) - Sophomore, 4 Years
-Joseph Reece (Old Dominion) - Senior, 2 Years
-Jared Ridder (Missouri State) - Senior, 2 Years
-Dallas Watson (Saint Peter's) - Senior, 2 Years

Had SLU interest at some point:
-Jeron Artest (UC-Irvine) - Junior, 3 Years
-Ralph Bissainthe (Central Michigan) - Junior, 3 Years - Hearing from Ball State, Eastern Washington, Morehead State, Montana State, FAU, Sam Houston State, Stetson, Samford, Cal State-Fullerton, Elon, Towson, and St. Peter's. Also open to returning to CMU.
-Lenell Henry (Prairie View A&M) - Grad Transfer, 1 Year - Hearing from IUPUI, Incarnate Word.
-Cooper Neese (Indiana State) - Senior, 2 Years
-Rashad Weekly-McDaniels (Central Michigan) - Sophomore, 4 Years - Hearing from JUCOs.

Others that have been contacted by SLU:
-Mason Madsen (Cincinnati) - Sophomore, 4 Years - Hearing from SLU, New Mexico, Butler, Colorado State, Iowa State, Loyola-Chicago, UNI, Toledo, Cal Poly, SIUC. Also considering staying at UC with the new coach.

Please let me know if I'm missing anyone.

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4 minutes ago, dlarry said:

I think Hargrove is on the path most quality College players take.

He comes in as a freshman and get spot minutes while learning the system and what he needs to do.

Sophomore season, earn more minutes and improve on what you learned as a freshman.

Junior year big contributor. 

Senior year even bigger contributor.

 

I think this is how most players should develop at the college level. 
The problem is that the Bills haven’t been deep enough to develop players this way. We have been forced to throw freshman into big minute.

With the depth they have now they can develop players properly.

This isn’t the method for all players but I think most fit into this mold.

No doubt, Hargrove has shown incremental improvement. His shooting has clearly improved since his freshman season.

I agree, this is a big season for him to take a bigger step forward. An opportunity to take on a bigger role, perhaps be a 6th man getting around 20 minutes per game or maybe even starting. As the roster stands now, I see Hargrove v. Thatch for the final starting spot.

I think the key for consistent minutes is to become an excellent defender. Knocking down threes and being a dynamic finisher on the break are all be a bonus.

I love his enthusiasm on the bench with Linnsen. It cracks me up. He seems like a great teammate who brings a lot of positive energy. I'm rooting for him to take on a bigger role.

 

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16 minutes ago, dlarry said:

I think Hargrove is on the path most quality College players take.

He comes in as a freshman and get spot minutes while learning the system and what he needs to do.

Sophomore season, earn more minutes and improve on what you learned as a freshman.

Junior year big contributor. 

Senior year even bigger contributor.

I wasn't being critical of Hargrove and I am a big fan of the kid, I just think saying he is excelling with his fairly limited production is a step too far. I didn't realize he actually played fewer minutes this season than his freshman season. It is actually kind of odd comparing the two as the numbers kind of show him having a better freshman season outside of that 3 point %. Doesn't matter, we seemingly all agree Hargrove is a guy we are excited to see the next two seasons.

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11 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

I wasn't being critical of Hargrove and I am a big fan of the kid, I just think saying he is excelling with his fairly limited production is a step too far. I didn't realize he actually played fewer minutes this season than his freshman season. It is actually kind of odd comparing the two as the numbers kind of show him having a better freshman season outside of that 3 point %. Doesn't matter, we seemingly all agree Hargrove is a guy we are excited to see the next two seasons.

TJ played more his freshman year due to injuries and the fact that Thatch came back. I am in the camp that he would be more productive if he played more regular minutes. 

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4 minutes ago, willie said:

TJ played more his freshman year due to injuries and the fact that Thatch came back. I am in the camp that he would be more productive if he played more regular minutes. 

Hargrove also had that offensive outburst against D2 Maryville his freshman year which skewed his numbers.

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9 minutes ago, ACE said:

Hargrove also had that offensive outburst against D2 Maryville his freshman year which skewed his numbers.

They did skew his numbers but we may have lost that game without him showing out.

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9 minutes ago, ACE said:

Hargrove also had that offensive outburst against D2 Maryville his freshman year which skewed his numbers.

Excluding the Maryville game, the per game averages become rather similar with just a really big flip in his shooting %s (improved considerably from 3 (by 13.85%), but dropped considerably from 2 (by 13%)).

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1 hour ago, ACE said:

Another overhyped local player who flamed out at Mizzou.

St. Louis metro produces, on average, 1-2 blue chippers a year.  Everyone else should go to the mid-major that is the best fit for them, IMO.  You're going to end up there anyway.  Might as well start out there and get a head start on improving your game.

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