Path to NCAA Tourney

[RUBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, JettFlight5 said:

I think you're right on all counts. I think the NIT is a failed season (Carter was running a Twitter poll and the results were pretty close), but there is value in the player development angle for the future. For a senior dominated team, it's a bit harder to justify. 

I wonder if the NCAA is smart enough to tell the "alternates" that they can only be on the list if they sign onto playing in the NIT.

IMO more Billiken basketball is never a bad thing.  I hope they get a game this week and I hope if they don't make the NCAAs, they'll play in the NIT.

I'm not sure if you're saying this is a "senior dominated" team or not, but I'd argue that it is definitely not.  French & Goodwin 4 year seniors are 2 of the most important players.  Perkins is another one of the most important players, but he's a JUCO so this is his 2nd DI season.  Jacobs is the only junior.  The rest of the guys who get minutes are all soph or freshman (Jimerson) eligibility-wise.  We're 121st in the nation in experience per KenPom.  This is not the 2013-14 team where all of our starters were seniors.

Also NIT games are still on national TV, right?  More exposure is a good thing regardless of the tournament initials.

[RUBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I'm pretty sure they said exactly that.

I don't hold out much hope for any of the first four out getting someone to cancel at this point. 1) Case numbers are down everywhere fairly dramatically at this point. 2) There is enough grey area in the contact tracing department rules that activity that might have been deemed too risk to play back in November and December will be deemed OK to play in March when the games and $ really count. It's just the way of the world. Short of a team having an undeniable outbreak amongst multiple players testing positive I don't see any teams selected not being able to play in their first round game.

Yep.  I'm skeptical there will be any schools who have to drop out of the NCAAs due to COVID.  I'm pretty sure the NCAA announced that teams will only need 5 healthy / non-quarantined players to participate.  That is wildly different from a single (likely false) positive test causing UNI to have to drop out of the MVC tournament entirely.

[A10Ref]

The big game is the Xavier one imo. Ncaa always seems to want some regional spread in the tournament. We don’t compare apples to apples to mountain west or ACC but much better to a private, catholic, mid-west school. Somehow, some way, we need this horrible Butler team to pull it off. Never rooted for butler and now here I am. 

[JettFlight5]

5 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

IMO more Billiken basketball is never a bad thing.  I hope they get a game this week and I hope if they don't make the NCAAs, they'll play in the NIT.

I'm not sure if you're saying this is a "senior dominated" team or not, but I'd argue that it is definitely not.  French & Goodwin 4 year seniors are 2 of the most important players.  Perkins is another one of the most important players, but he's a JUCO so this is his 2nd DI season.  Jacobs is the only junior.  The rest of the guys who get minutes are all soph or freshman (Jimerson) eligibility-wise.  We're 121st in the nation in experience per KenPom.  This is not the 2013-14 team where all of our starters were seniors.

Also NIT games are still on national TV, right?  More exposure is a good thing regardless of the tournament initials.

If SLU is going to play in the NIT, I would want the younger guys to get most of the PT for development purposes. That said, if you're going to play...play to win. 

[billiken_roy]

30 minutes ago, JettFlight5 said:

If SLU is going to play in the NIT, I would want the younger guys to get most of the PT for development purposes. That said, if you're going to play...play to win. 

i dont.  i want to see goodwin and french get a chance to make up for the time they lost last year getting screwed out of the conference tourney.  plus goodwin got screwed out of those games his freshmen year due to situation  give em the games for their career legacy stats.  

[JettFlight5]

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

i dont.  i want to see goodwin and french get a chance to make up for the time they lost last year getting screwed out of the conference tourney.  plus goodwin got screwed out of those games his freshmen year due to situation  give em the games for their career legacy stats.  

Fair enough. I guess the million dollar question is: How important is winning the NIT? 

[dennis_w]

41 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

IMO more Billiken basketball is never a bad thing.  I hope they get a game this week and I hope if they don't make the NCAAs, they'll play in the NIT.

I'm not sure if you're saying this is a "senior dominated" team or not, but I'd argue that it is definitely not.  French & Goodwin 4 year seniors are 2 of the most important players.  Perkins is another one of the most important players, but he's a JUCO so this is his 2nd DI season.  Jacobs is the only junior.  The rest of the guys who get minutes are all soph or freshman (Jimerson) eligibility-wise.  We're 121st in the nation in experience per KenPom.  This is not the 2013-14 team where all of our starters were seniors.

Also NIT games are still on national TV, right?  More exposure is a good thing regardless of the tournament initials.

I agree, I want as much billiken basketball as i can get. I do not have many other rooting interests, so if it is one more game or the NIT I want it.

[BLIKNS]

After missing out on postseason last year, with the Covid , shutdown,  I think the NIT is important, just for the chance to play for a championship .

Still holding out hope, for a NCAA  bid , but realistically know that will be probably not happening...That being said , Come On, Butler, Nevada and whoever plays Colorado State..

Would love nothing better than to steal Xavier's bid..As many times they ripped my/our hearts in the MCC days. 

 

 

 

[Bay Area Billiken]

Coach Travis Ford at one point in his interview earlier this week with Bob Ramsey did say SLU would play in the NIT.

From being aware of the SLU program since the Bob Polk days in the early 1970's, and there are posters on this Board who are my seniors, from following the program closely since 1978, I say if it comes to it, SLU definitely should accept an NIT bid, would be nuts not to accept.

Consider there are 20 NCAA Tournament Automatic Bids that go to one bid conferences, whose automatic bid recipient would not get an at large bid.  That quickly lowers the real NCAA field from 68 to 48 teams.  

The NIT is usually 32 teams, but this year is reduced to 16 teams.  Thus, the NIT field is what the powers that be (NCAA Committee, NIT Committee) think are Teams 49-67. (Three of those 20 at larges would be NIT worthy).  This year 347 D-1 teams are listed in the NET.  Thus, 263 D-1 teams will be done playing basketball by this coming Sunday;  only 84 will still be playing.

The NIT is not the goal.  The NIT is never the goal.  But in my opinion, the NIT is not a loser tournament to be dismissed.  I'd rather the NIT be abolished all together, but with the NIT field included in the NCAA Tournament.  But that is not the current system, not the current rules of engagement.

I sketched out a possible NIT bracket.  There are some very good teams that will be playing in the NIT, that promise to play some very good games.  The NIT plays on the ESPN stations.  The NIT does provide national TV exposure.

I'm not giving up all hope for SLU and the NCAA, even though SLU appears to be on the wrong side of the bubble.  But at least we know that all is not lost.  This season has not ended, one way or the other.

As Coach Majerus said after doing what he previously said he wouldn't do, namely accept a CBI bid (and after he made a heck of a deal in doing so, 4 CBI home games and participation in a later year in the CBE in KC):  "You want some ball?  We'll give you some ball."

[HoosierPal]

54 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

Yep.  I'm skeptical there will be any schools who have to drop out of the NCAAs due to COVID.  I'm pretty sure the NCAA announced that teams will only need 5 healthy / non-quarantined players to participate.  That is wildly different from a single (likely false) positive test causing UNI to have to drop out of the MVC tournament entirely.

 

[Bay Area Billiken]

56 minutes ago, A10Ref said:

The big game is the Xavier one imo. Ncaa always seems to want some regional spread in the tournament. We don’t compare apples to apples to mountain west or ACC but much better to a private, catholic, mid-west school. Somehow, some way, we need this horrible Butler team to pull it off. Never rooted for butler and now here I am. 

Can The Butler do it?  

I've rarely rooted for Butler either.  But I will be today.

[A10Ref]

39 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Can The Butler do it?  

I've rarely rooted for Butler either.  But I will be today.

I think butler’s got the upper hand in coaching in today’s matchup, but I hope to never root for butler again. 

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, JettFlight5 said:

Fair enough. I guess the million dollar question is: How important is winning the NIT? 

who won it last year? 

my point is most people dont know.   and i bet even if someone does WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP they probably dont remember who they played. 

i.e. not important.  once the ncaa expanded the ncaa tourney in the 80's the day of the NIT was over.   

 

[Bay Area Billiken]

1 hour ago, BLIKNS said:

...

Would love nothing better than to steal Xavier's bid..As many times they ripped my/our hearts in the MCC days. 

 

 

 

Agreed re Xavier.  Besides, I just checked, and Xavier was sub-.500, 6-7, in the Big East.  How is Xavier getting all this deference?

Michigan State, Maryland, Xavier ... the system has malfunctioned and is being stood on its head.

And then there's this year's feel good story, Drake, with its nonconference schedule of assorted cupcakes and cream puffs.

Xavier played 20 games, the same number as SLU has played, will play at least one more today.  So why is Travis Ford hearing SLU did not play enough games?

It's the old ad hoc eye test, the ends justify the means.  Remember the old "based upon the entire body of work" mumbo jumbo standard?  I heard enough old committee officials spout off that utter nonsense.

There should be a new college course:  "Disguising NCAA Conference Slotting, A How to Guide."

[Bay Area Billiken]

Georgetown 68 Marquette 49 - Final. Marquette finishes 13-14. Ah, too bad.

[RUBillsFan]

23 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

who won it last year? 

my point is most people dont know.   and i bet even if someone does WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP they probably dont remember who they played. 

i.e. not important.  once the ncaa expanded the ncaa tourney in the 80's the day of the NIT was over.   

 

who won the NCAA tournament last year, roy?

Trick question on both because there was no NCAA tournament or NIT last year.  

Ok so who won the NCAAs the previous 5 years before that?  I'm a pretty big CBB fan, but I couldn't really tell you unless I look it up.  I know Villanova won a couple times and UNC won, but that's only 3 of 5 and I have no idea which 3.

As for the NIT, I have no idea.  I know Dayton one one fairly recently and Stanford won a few recent I think.

Point is that knowing who won which is a silly measurement.  Everyone knows that the NCAA T is a bigger deal.  It gets way more eyeballs than the NIT.  However, even NIT games get way more eyeballs than normal SLU games.  Therefore, SLU playing in the NIT is still a relatively big deal (just not nearly as big as NCAA T).

Edit: upon looking it up, I'm kind of a dummy for forgetting about Virginia's championship run, but that's the point.  I'm sure Virginia fans won't forget, but casual CBB fans will.

[kshoe]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

 

As I said before, I don't hold out much hope for teams dropping out between selection Sunday and the start of the tournament on Friday, but I'm not sure the 5 players thing provides as much protection as people assume.

Let's say a team is playing in their conference tournament this weekend and plays until Saturday. They then sit around on Sunday waiting for their name to be called, before heading to Indy for a week of practice. If on Tuesday one player tests positive and on Thursday two more test positive, at that point the whole team would be viewed as at risk for Friday/Saturday, even if the other 10 continue to test negative. There would be the usual twitter mob / coronabros saying that you are putting the opposing teams lives at risk by forcing unpaid players on the court against this potential infectious group of players. The same logic that SLU used to not play Richmond that game would be used here; it's just too dangerous.

Oddly, the one team best prepared for such a scenario would be SLU as any of the players that were infected back in January would still be in their 3 month window where they are deemed unable to get it again and would be eligible to play. Once you get to 3 months and 1 day past infection, the mindset changes and any teammates that had contact with a player that tests positive will fall under the window of needing to quarantine. That's where the grey area of contact tracing could help teams, but if the outbreak goes beyond one or two players and is over multiple days, I think the entirety of the team will have to bow out.

Again, I think it's unlikely the scenario above plays out, but it's not a case where 9 of 13 players need to test positive for the team to be unable to play.

[A10Ref]

well... butler sucks.

[BilliesBy40]

The main problem with the NIT is obvious: it doesn’t provide a path to winning games in the NCAA tournament. This year appeared to be our prime time to do so, which would’ve built on existing program momentum. Unless the selection committee forgives our post-COVID losses, we’ll say “what if” about this season for a long time. And playing in the NIT won’t change that.

[AnkielBreakers]

Can we play at Davidson or at Richmond?

[mrjoelabs]

28 minutes ago, A10Ref said:

well... butler sucks.

Yep. No help from the ACC or Big East today

[wgstl]

People do realize the MWC is more impactful for Slu’s hopes than the cuse and X game right 

[BilliesBy40]

Both these teams are bad, Xavier slightly less so. We would beat either team.

[NH]

17 minutes ago, wgstl said:

People do realize the MWC is more impactful for Slu’s hopes than the cuse and X game right 

What do we need to happen in the MWC? Losses for Boise and Utah State?

[BillsBeliever!!!]

Butler now tied with Xavier 23 seconds left!