Clock_Tower Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Alot of talk about player choices and performance... 1. What if its true that some were affected by COVID more than others? 2. Not saying Goodwin and French don’t deserve criticism and more time on the bench, Perkins had been very disappointing and Yuri doesn’t look like he used to. 3. And shouldnt we figure out our core players before we worry about playing the whole roster? Meaning playing Hargrove? Not practicing and not playing games for so long - while your competition is at the top of their game is not fair, not normal... No doubt in my mind that Hargrove not getting a chance to shine is due to this unusual year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 13 hours ago, slufanskip said: I don't disagree, he's a good coach. I just get tired of hearing Ford get constantly criticized here and guys like him praised like he's the 2nd coming. This is always the strange dynamic with evaluating college coaches. A coach like Schmidt who has success with low-profile recruits and diamonds in the rough will always get more credit than a coach like Ford, who is a better recruiter. If we finish 3rd in the A-10 this year, it will look bad because of how much talent we have. But Ford was the one who brought in that talent and should get credit for having a team talented enough to hypothetically “underachieve” it’s way into a strong season. In seven seasons as an A-10 coach, Ford has finished 7th, 1st, 3rd, 11th (with a depleted SLU team), 5th, 6th and 4th. Those are great results, but he hasn’t sniffed a Coach of the Year award in any of those seasons and some people still consider him an underachiever. The fact of the matter is that bringing in talented players is the most important trait for a college basketball coach, and Ford is the best in the league at that. If he gets outcoached in a single game against Mckillop, Schmidt, Mooney, etc. then people will be quick to point it out. But at the end of the day his teams are usually in the upper tier of the conference and that’s really the only outcome that matters. I have many complaints about Travis’ in-game coaching, though I’ve also seen him be really strong in those areas at time’s. When it comes down to it, there is not a single coach in our league who I would trade for Travis and the results on the court thus far support that. He’s not a perfect coach, but we’re lucky to have him and he builds teams that consistently compete at a high level. SLU_Nick, A10Ref, David King and 3 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 No argument to experience ..... but if they are challenged athletically, in other words, can't put the ball in the basket, how does experience conquer that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 8 hours ago, NH said: This is always the strange dynamic with evaluating college coaches. A coach like Schmidt who has success with low-profile recruits and diamonds in the rough will always get more credit than a coach like Ford, who is a better recruiter. If we finish 3rd in the A-10 this year, it will look bad because of how much talent we have. But Ford was the one who brought in that talent and should get credit for having a team talented enough to hypothetically “underachieve” it’s way into a strong season. In seven seasons as an A-10 coach, Ford has finished 7th, 1st, 3rd, 11th (with a depleted SLU team), 5th, 6th and 4th. Those are great results, but he hasn’t sniffed a Coach of the Year award in any of those seasons and some people still consider him an underachiever. The fact of the matter is that bringing in talented players is the most important trait for a college basketball coach, and Ford is the best in the league at that. If he gets outcoached in a single game against Mckillop, Schmidt, Mooney, etc. then people will be quick to point it out. But at the end of the day his teams are usually in the upper tier of the conference and that’s really the only outcome that matters. I have many complaints about Travis’ in-game coaching, though I’ve also seen him be really strong in those areas at time’s. When it comes down to it, there is not a single coach in our league who I would trade for Travis and the results on the court thus far support that. He’s not a perfect coach, but we’re lucky to have him and he builds teams that consistently compete at a high level. -one part in here I have a difference with, might be picking nits, is 'great' on the conference finishes of CFord teams, good or okay fit more in there imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Cowboy said: -one part in here I have a difference with, might be picking nits, is 'great' on the conference finishes of CFord teams, good or okay fit more in there imo The only team that underperformed relative to expectations, imo, is the Isabell/Bess team, who ended up in the tournament Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 35 minutes ago, Littlebill said: The only team that underperformed relative to expectations, imo, is the Isabell/Bess team, who ended up in the tournament If Isabell had spent just one more year here prior, they would would have been special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, wgstl said: If Isabell had spent just one more year here prior, they would would have been special. I think Gordon imploding that season was likely a distraction that season as well. Also, it was not a great shooting team. They sure were fun to watch in the conference tourney. CBFan likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, ACE said: I think Gordon imploding that season was likely a distraction that season as well. Also, it was not a great shooting team. They sure were fun to watch in the conference tourney. didn't Isabell start shooting much better at the end? maybe not, cant really remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Pelican Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, wgstl said: didn't Isabell start shooting much better at the end? maybe not, cant really remember. Don’t know if it was the very end but yeah early on couldn’t buy a basket. At least that’s how I remember it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, wgstl said: didn't Isabell start shooting much better at the end? maybe not, cant really remember. Yes, he caught fire mid-February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, ACE said: Yes, he caught fire mid-February. My theory is late in the year he said f--- it and started playing one on one which he was good at. slubillikens43 and TheChosenOne like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, willie said: My theory is late in the year he said f--- it and started playing one on one which he was good at. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremio14 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said: Agreed One of very few Billikens I actually pleaded to go “Hero.” Jett was another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, willie said: My theory is late in the year he said f--- it and started playing one on one which he was good at. Isabel was playing one on one before that and he was decidedly mediocre. How many bricks and unforced turnovers did we have sit through the first 2/3 of the season? By his admission, he was wrestling with personal issues and his head wasn't in the game: https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/perseverance-pays-off-for-isabell-after-rough-transition-to-slu/article_a8597bcf-5e4d-5806-9f45-7f836b175728.amp.html “It was off-the-court stuff more than anything,” Isabell said on the floor at Barclays Center after SLU won the Atlantic 10 Conference tournament. “I had people giving up on me, a tough breakup, my grandpa about to have heart surgery. I just needed to put my mind somewhere else. “My mind wasn’t on basketball at the time. I was worried about my girlfriend in Philly, my grandpa, my mom. I watch film and I just wasn’t myself. I wasn’t even into the game. I was thinking about everything else.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, willie said: My theory is late in the year he said f--- it and started playing one on one which he was good at. I agree with 3Star, he did that the entire year off and on. It just started working at the very end of the season and in the A-10 tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said: Isabel was playing one on one before that and he was decidedly mediocre. How many bricks and unforced turnovers did we have sit through the first 2/3 of the season? By his admission, he was wrestling with personal issues and his head wasn't in the game: https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/perseverance-pays-off-for-isabell-after-rough-transition-to-slu/article_a8597bcf-5e4d-5806-9f45-7f836b175728.amp.html “It was off-the-court stuff more than anything,” Isabell said on the floor at Barclays Center after SLU won the Atlantic 10 Conference tournament. “I had people giving up on me, a tough breakup, my grandpa about to have heart surgery. I just needed to put my mind somewhere else. “My mind wasn’t on basketball at the time. I was worried about my girlfriend in Philly, my grandpa, my mom. I watch film and I just wasn’t myself. I wasn’t even into the game. I was thinking about everything else.” Not saying he didn't have personal problems holding him back but he did not attack the basket in the first 2/3 of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 20 minutes ago, willie said: Not saying he didn't have personal problems holding him back but he did not attack the basket in the first 2/3 of the year. He certainly got to the line a lot the first month of the season for someone who wasn't attacking the basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Light Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Gremio14 said: One of very few Billikens I actually pleaded to go “Hero.” Jett was another... I agree totally. Those teams needed to find buckets any which way they could. My go to 1-on-1 guy still has to be Kwamain Mitchell. I feel like when you needed a big bucket he could get it on the ISO. Clutchus Maximus! Gremio14 and MusicCityBilliken like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Matty Light said: I agree totally. Those teams needed to find buckets any which way they could. My go to 1-on-1 guy still has to be Kwamain Mitchell. I feel like when you needed a big bucket he could get it on the ISO. Clutchus Maximus! Yes. Kwamain Mitchell was one of our best. And quite good as a Frosh too. When he penetrated the lane, he could finish or pass the ball. Unselfish but a scorer. By contrast, I see Yuri penetrating and passing but not finishing. Believe teams are sagging off him, guarding the pass and daring Yuri to finish. And KM could also keep the defenses honest by hitting a three pointer if left alone. When Marquis Perry’s outside shot started to drop, he became much more difficult to guard. I will be watching Yuri closer going forward. When his game is on, Team Blue is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 11 hours ago, Clock_Tower said: Yes. Kwamain Mitchell was one of our best. And quite good as a Frosh too. When he penetrated the lane, he could finish or pass the ball. Unselfish but a scorer. By contrast, I see Yuri penetrating and passing but not finishing. Believe teams are sagging off him, guarding the pass and daring Yuri to finish. And KM could also keep the defenses honest by hitting a three pointer if left alone. When Marquis Perry’s outside shot started to drop, he became much more difficult to guard. I will be watching Yuri closer going forward. When his game is on, Team Blue is on. Yuri isn't a natural scorer. He'll score if he has to. He scored a bunch of points his senior year in high school by going coast to coast against high school defenses but that's the same as being a one-on-one player. Unless Perkins comes back, there won't be a one-on-one specialist on the team next year. We'll have to win games by committee, which is more complicated because it requires more moving parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Light Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said: Yuri isn't a natural scorer. He'll score if he has to. He scored a bunch of points his senior year in high school by going coast to coast against high school defenses but that's the same as being a one-on-one player. Unless Perkins comes back, there won't be a one-on-one specialist on the team next year. We'll have to win games by committee, which is more complicated because it requires more moving parts. Jacobs isn't really an ISO guy but when he receives a pass with his feet and body in the triple threat position he has been just that. He might not be the heroball guy but I feel like he could put a lot of pressure on the defense, especially with Gibby and another shooter to space the backcourt. But Yuri will have the ball and need to find his threat maneuvers so that he can get to an easy bucket when the defense favors him to dish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, Matty Light said: Jacobs isn't really an ISO guy but when he receives a pass with his feet and body in the triple threat position he has been just that. He might not be the heroball guy but I feel like he could put a lot of pressure on the defense, especially with Gibby and another shooter to space the backcourt. But Yuri will have the ball and need to find his threat maneuvers so that he can get to an easy bucket when the defense favors him to dish. Its almost as if you can tell that Jacobs is best when he doesn't think and just "goes". honestly a good quality to have in that slasher role that he plays for us this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkielBreakers Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 hours ago, 3star_recruit said: Yuri isn't a natural scorer. He'll score if he has to. He scored a bunch of points his senior year in high school by going coast to coast against high school defenses but that's the same as being a one-on-one player. Unless Perkins comes back, there won't be a one-on-one specialist on the team next year. We'll have to win games by committee, which is more complicated because it requires more moving parts. I don’t know. Fred Thatch has been taking his man to the hole for his buckets. He has had a physical mismatch everytime on the court. So, he is an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 8 hours ago, 3star_recruit said: Yuri isn't a natural scorer. He'll score if he has to. He scored a bunch of points his senior year in high school by going coast to coast against high school defenses but that's the same as being a one-on-one player. Unless Perkins comes back, there won't be a one-on-one specialist on the team next year. We'll have to win games by committee, which is more complicated because it requires more moving parts. Yes you may be right. At the same time, there are only five basketball players on the floor at a given time. And yes each have their own roles to fail which are much different. No comparison between a point guard and a center. With that said, this is not football, volleyball or these other sports world are you do is one thing.When one guy can only pass and dribble... and the next guy can only shoot within 5 feet of the hoop ... and the next guy can only shoot from the outside ... It becomes quite difficult to put a cohesive and successful team together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 2/9/2021 at 12:04 AM, NH said: I have many complaints about Travis’ in-game coaching, though I’ve also seen him be really strong in those areas at time’s. When it comes down to it, there is not a single coach in our league who I would trade for Travis and the results on the court thus far support that. He’s not a perfect coach, but we’re lucky to have him and he builds teams that consistently compete at a high level. It's easy to have complaints about a coach's decisions. Especially since what one thinks the coach should have done always works perfectly in their head. It's also easier to have those criticisms after it's clear the coach's decision didn't work out as planned. Nothing wrong with questioning the decision it's the attitude that the decision anyone else may have made is better, when in fact there's no guarantee and probably likely that their decision wouldn't have done any better. I'm not saying coach's never make mistakes of course they do but they've been at every practice, they seen more and have far more data at their ready than any of us know. Sometimes a coach makes the best decision at the time and it just doesn't work. I often wonder when reading this board why more posters aren't D1 coaches themselves. Clock_Tower, Quality Is Job 1 and 3star_recruit like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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