GDT: Arch Baron Cup Rd 1

[wgstl]

13 minutes ago, brianstl said:

The one charge by Goodwin when he could have kicked it out to Gibson instead was really bad.

The way Jgood and Has played last night, it seemed like they had to make up for lost time.  Kept trying to force things. 

[bauman]

Three or four posters have all made the same point.  Our two senior leaders were forcing things when a much better option was passing the ball to JP or especially GJ for open 3s.  Gibson was 2 of 4 from behind the arc-small sample size but I'll take 50%.  Since the game was on a national network, did J Good and HF think they needed to show what they could do on Offense?  It would have served French  better had he gotten more than 4 total rebounds, just one more than our 5'11" PG.

At some point in the game it is on the coaches to end the hero ball and insist on getting the ball to our shooters (GJ, JP and DJ) when they are open.  Do that and decide to guard Crutcher a lot better than we did and the W would have been ours. 

[slu72]

Get Jimerson 10 open looks at a 3, and that easily could have happened last night, and he hits 40% Bills win. Add in a few open looks for Perk from beyond the arc and maybe we cover the point spread. On at least two JGood drives to the hoop into the forest he could have hit Gibby with a bounce pass and a possible 3. Bottom line; our O looked out of synch from earlier games. Give us time is the answer. 

[NH]

There was a decent stretch in the second half where we had a lineup on the floor with Thatch, Goodwin, French, Linssen and Yuri. I am still scratching my head at why we were playing a lineup that I don't think we've played before and that offers no perimeter shooting threat (while we were trailing). Like I said earlier, the coaches may know more in regards to who is or isn't ready to play following the shutdown. That said, it's hard to manufacture shots for your shooters when you don't have any of them on the floor. 

Dayton shot incredibly well from 3 and I thought a lot of those looks were well-guarded. I thought our defense was actually better than I expected and think that we will be back to full strength on that end of the floor by next game. 

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

 

-how can our game plan not include to never leave Crutcher? although postgame CFord said we didn't do our typical job of following the plan

 

I had the TV and radio synced.  More than once, both Rammer and Earl said "don't leave him..." or "you have to go over the screen, not under".  Sure enough, we did, and they sank a three.

[AnkielBreakers]

One missed pass by Goodwin does not mean we are playing hero ball.

It is pretty easy to understand, Minnesota came up with a strategy to face us, force Hasahn French to beat you. They are not doubling or helping down on him, so there is no kick out pass. HF went 6/8 with 1 TO. Maybe the answer would have been to go to him (or Linssen) every play.

That said, we cannot start a game with such bad defense and offense.

[NH]

2 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

One missed pass by Goodwin does not mean we are playing hero ball.

It is pretty easy to understand, Minnesota came up with a strategy to face us, force Hasahn French to beat you. They are not doubling or helping down on him, so there is no kick out pass. HF went 6/8 with 1 TO. Maybe the answer would have been to go to him (or Linssen) every play.

That said, we cannot start a game with such bad defense and offense.

Nobody was doubling Hasahn in our first two games of the season and those were two of our best offensive performances of the year. Hasahn is a great player, but he is average offensively. Running more offense through him is not the answer, in my opinion. 

[HoosierPal]

 

[JettFlight5]

Tough one to take last night. That is a team that SLU should have buried. I think Travis did a good job of not using the layoff as an excuse. I think Friday will be telling. If the Bills lose to a god-awful Richmond team that last year's squad absolutely hammered it will be tough to recover from. 

Our lack of defense against scoring guards continues...Cam Thomas (25), Carr (32), Crutcher (27)...at what point do we start worrying about it?

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, NH said:

There was a decent stretch in the second half where we had a lineup on the floor with Thatch, Goodwin, French, Linssen and Yuri. I am still scratching my head at why we were playing a lineup that I don't think we've played before and that offers no perimeter shooting threat (while we were trailing). Like I said earlier, the coaches may know more in regards to who is or isn't ready to play following the shutdown. That said, it's hard to manufacture shots for your shooters when you don't have any of them on the floor. 

Dayton shot incredibly well from 3 and I thought a lot of those looks were well-guarded. I thought our defense was actually better than I expected and think that we will be back to full strength on that end of the floor by next game. 

I think Linssen and French were a +2 for the four minutes they were out there together.  The first couple minutes of that time it was Jacobs, Collins, Thatch, French and Linssen.  Last 30 seconds it was Jimerson,  Goodwin, Collins, French and Linssen.  They couldn't play Perkins he picked up his fourth foul which brought Linssen into the game.  

[brianstl]

2 hours ago, Cowboy said:

-TJH was dancing on the sideline in several camera views, funny way to act if he can't log 5 minutes

-the mpg stats are head scratching for a team in our status

-CFord seemed very engaged with the refs, more than normal, I don't like that, are refs going to make bad calls? sure and they typically go both ways and they did last night

-JGood you did charge, complaining won't help it, play the game

-SVU did an AMAZING job rebounding, simply AMAZING, for our team to get 2 offensive rebounds (we were averaging over 12) and JGood to get zero is, well, AMAZING

-how can our game plan not include to never leave Crutcher? although postgame CFord said we didn't do our typical job of following the plan

-move on, we'll see what we have on Friday at 5.30 CT on ESPN2, looking at their box scores Richmond has not had fans in the stands

The fact that we played with a short bench would have bothered me if I thought fatigue was the problem with the team last night.  I don't think fatigue was an issue at all.  I think it was timing and focus. If timing and focus are the biggest issues, you want to make sure the guys you count on the most get plenty of minutes to get their timing and focus back. 

[3star_recruit]

31 minutes ago, JettFlight5 said:

Tough one to take last night. That is a team that SLU should have buried. I think Travis did a good job of not using the layoff as an excuse. I think Friday will be telling. If the Bills lose to a god-awful Richmond team that last year's squad absolutely hammered it will be tough to recover from. 

Our lack of defense against scoring guards continues...Cam Thomas (25), Carr (32), Crutcher (27)...at what point do we start worrying about it?

Thatch is our best answer to high-scoring guards.  But he doesn't play the starter minutes required to keep these guys near or under their average.  And rightly so -- he hasn't demonstrated enough offense to keep him on the floor 28 minutes a game. 

High-scoring guards will continue to be a problem.  That's why it's important for us to eventually get back to doing what we do -- dominating the glass and getting out in transition for easy 2s and 3s.  That's enough to win.  And when the other team doesn't have a high-scoring guard, it's enough to blow them out.

[cgeldmacher]

2 hours ago, NH said:

There was a decent stretch in the second half where we had a lineup on the floor with Thatch, Goodwin, French, Linssen and Yuri. I am still scratching my head at why we were playing a lineup that I don't think we've played before and that offers no perimeter shooting threat (while we were trailing). Like I said earlier, the coaches may know more in regards to who is or isn't ready to play following the shutdown. That said, it's hard to manufacture shots for your shooters when you don't have any of them on the floor. 

Dayton shot incredibly well from 3 and I thought a lot of those looks were well-guarded. I thought our defense was actually better than I expected and think that we will be back to full strength on that end of the floor by next game. 

I'm a huge fan of Coach Ford and the staff.  I think some of the criticisms of Ford are either false, or he has learned from past mistakes and is correcting those mistakes here.  Beyond recruiting, he game plans well.  He makes good adjustments.  He develops players well.

However, I do have a criticism that I think Ford needs to work on.  That is his substitutions during the game.  He seems to forget guys that are on the bench at times.  He doesn't use matchups the best.  He doesn't ride hot hands enough.  I think Ford and the coaching staff need to have a reassessment of how they handle substitutions, matchups, and player minutes.

[NH]

43 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think Linssen and French were a +2 for the four minutes they were out there together.  The first couple minutes of that time it was Jacobs, Collins, Thatch, French and Linssen.  Last 30 seconds it was Jimerson,  Goodwin, Collins, French and Linssen.  They couldn't play Perkins he picked up his fourth foul which brought Linssen into the game.  

Not to split hairs, but we had a solid ~2 minute stretch starting at 8:37 where we didn't have any of our three best shooters (Jacobs, Perkins or Jimerson) on the floor. 

As you say, we were +2 with Linssen and French on the floor together, but I believe we also only scored 5 points over 4+ minutes with them on the floor. That lineup was very good defensively, and I would be open to seeing more of it moving forward, but it's a tough formula if you're trying to make a comeback.   

[cgeldmacher]

5 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Demarius Jacobs played 12 minutes, TJ Hargrove 0+ minute. Unless there is an undisclosed explanation, that is insufficient utilization of the Bench, especially coming off a 34 day layoff. 
 

My contention stands that Jacobs should be played as many minutes, if not more, than Gibson Jimerson (28 minutes last night). And we’re back to confining to the deep recesses of the now socially spaced bench a potential Dr. J in TJ Hargrove.

I have to disagree about Jacobs.  He was horrific in his 12 minutes.  Every time the guy that he was guarding got the ball, they blew right by him for points.  He also got, I believe, 3 fouls in those 12 minutes.  His only bright spot was the two points he got right before halftime.  Jacobs sometimes has a lot to offer.  Last night was not one of those times.  It was indicative of the inconsistency that has plagued him since he's been here.

[CenHudDude]

A lot of good points made in the post game section of this thread.  It was a tough loss to take, but not totally unexpected.  Dayton is not the Flyers of last year, but they aren’t this year’s versions of the Hawks either.  A tough first game back after 34 days off.

As a consolation, my 2021 SLU calendar arrived in the mail today.  Just in time for February!  On to Richmond, which is far from a “God Awful team” that one of our posters called them.  Let’s go Billikens.  Stomp those Spiders!

[juniorbill76]

1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

I'm a huge fan of Coach Ford and the staff.  I think some of the criticisms of Ford are either false, or he has learned from past mistakes and is correcting those mistakes here.  Beyond recruiting, he game plans well.  He makes good adjustments.  He develops players well.

However, I do have a criticism that I think Ford needs to work on.  That is his substitutions during the game.  He seems to forget guys that are on the bench at times.  He doesn't use matchups the best.  He doesn't ride hot hands enough.  I think Ford and the coaching staff need to have a reassessment of how they handle substitutions, matchups, and player minutes.

I agree. And not to make excuses, but Coach did say he had a rough time with the virus, and we don't know if any assistants got it, so they might have had some lingering brain fog last night as well.

[brianstl]

Crutcher has been a Billiken killer, but the bigger problem for us last night defensively was Ibi Watson getting 18.  Crutcher is going to get his against us, when we play against Dayton in the future this season we can't let Watson have a big night.

[cgeldmacher]

51 minutes ago, juniorbill76 said:

I agree. And not to make excuses, but Coach did say he had a rough time with the virus, and we don't know if any assistants got it, so they might have had some lingering brain fog last night as well.

True, but I have noticed this in other games as well.  I will argue with others who insinuate that he isn't a good pre-game or game time coach.  The evidence is that he is and those that say so seem to only make those comments after a loss.  This rotation and subbing issue, though, is the only beef I have with his coaching.

[billikenblue]

7 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

True, but I have noticed this in other games as well.  I will argue with others who insinuate that he isn't a good pre-game or game time coach.  The evidence is that he is and those that say so seem to only make those comments after a loss.  This rotation and subbing issue, though, is the only beef I have with his coaching.

Totally agree..I sit close to Travis and the bench and he gets lost in the “emotion “ of the game at times which I attribute to his being a great college player himself...I place some of it on the assistants who either seem hesitant or just don’t get involved ...matchups are so critical to success and we miss the mark on our team on the floor or recognizing who to play or not to..

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, billikenblue said:

Totally agree..I sit close to Travis and the bench and he gets lost in the “emotion “ of the game at times which I attribute to his being a great college player himself...I place some of it on the assistants who either seem hesitant or just don’t get involved ...matchups are so critical to success and we miss the mark on our team on the floor or recognizing who to play or not to..

Or he has the matchup's he wants and has a reason for it. Everyone assumes the moves they would have made instead would have worked. I mean heck in my head they did

[slusam]

I think the main problem was they had to spend most of their four practices just getting ready to play and didnt spend the normal time preparing for Dayton.

[JGR6396]

Each of the past three years has had a game like this. For me, there's always one really painful loss; call it devastating. Last night was it for 2021, a combination of what happened with Dayton last year and the anticipation after such a wait. 

I have no doubt that we'll turn it around and this season will continue to be a success; but that doesn't make the loss suck any less. Time to move on and win our next few games.

For me, the 2018-2019 loss to The Dukes to end a 5 game(maybe 4?) winning streak in conference was more painful. Not sure why.

[AnkielBreakers]

1 hour ago, JGR6396 said:

Each of the past three years has had a game like this. For me, there's always one really painful loss; call it devistating. Last night was it for 2021, a combination of what happened with Dayton last year and the anticipation after such a wait. 

I have no doubt that we'll turn it around and this season will continue to be a success; but that doesn't make the loss suck any less. Time to move on and win our next few games.

For me, the 2018-2019 loss to The Dukes to end a 5 game(maybe 4?) winning streak in conference was more painful. Not sure why.

You do that, I’ll call it dev[a]stating.