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Not A Bad Loss...10 things


mrjoelabs

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1 minute ago, mrjoelabs said:

I hate being beaten by a Pitino, and I think Ford has some questions to answer, however, here are 10 things.

1. This team won't be good in the Big 10, but they will spring an upset or two when they have a hot shooting 3 game like last night. At their place they can easily beat an Ohio State, Michigan etc on a good day. I think (and hope) their NET rating won't be awful come March. 

2. Yuri got a learning experience from Carr that hopefully helps him grow.

3. We see what Fred is now.

4. Hopefully Perkins and Gibby harden up a little, because they looked Charmin soft. Especially Gibby.

5. Goodwin is one of the best all around players in the country, and he will lead this team like a general.  Yuri needs to step into that role next year.

6. The Refs were garbage. The free throw disparity before the fouling at the end was a joke.

7. We nearly pulled off a miracle. The door was open, but couldn't hit threes, or even take them...

8. Minnesota shot out of their minds first half. That was the game. We should have been up 8-12 at half not down 2. 

9. Martin looked better. Still wish Bell would get a chance. He made big plays last year.

10. This SHOULD be our only loss of the regular season. Maybe 1 more tops on another bad night.

Good post

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my guess is that at this point linssen has just passed bell.   Ford is notorious for a short rotation.  rarely going above 8 with significant minutes.   so just no room for bell to get significant minutes without taking linssen's spot in the rotation.   I too have heartache for this as it is easy to see the young man has a potential and works hard (anyone that loses 100 lbs has some fortitude!).   but it is as it is.   bell just needs to kill it from here forward in practice to earn minutes.  

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43 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

my guess is that at this point linssen has just passed bell.   Ford is notorious for a short rotation.  rarely going above 8 with significant minutes.   so just no room for bell to get significant minutes without taking linssen's spot in the rotation.   I too have heartache for this as it is easy to see the young man has a potential and works hard (anyone that loses 100 lbs has some fortitude!).   but it is as it is.   bell just needs to kill it from here forward in practice to earn minutes.  

I am in agreement, but do you want Bell to take minutes from Linssen or French...in tight games?  I'm good where we are right now.  Rammer reported when he asked Ford before last night's game if he would play two bigs, his  response was something like, only if things aren't going well.

 

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2 hours ago, mrjoelabs said:

I hate being beaten by a Pitino, and I think Ford has some questions to answer, however, here are 10 things.

1. This team won't be good in the Big 10, but they will spring an upset or two when they have a hot shooting 3 game like last night. At their place they can easily beat an Ohio State, Michigan etc on a good day. I think (and hope) their NET rating won't be awful come March. 

2. Yuri got a learning experience from Carr that hopefully helps him grow.

3. We see what Fred is now.

4. Hopefully Perkins and Gibby harden up a little, because they looked Charmin soft. Especially Gibby.

5. Goodwin is one of the best all around players in the country, and he will lead this team like a general.  Yuri needs to step into that role next year.

6. The Refs were garbage. The free throw disparity before the fouling at the end was a joke.

7. We nearly pulled off a miracle. The door was open, but couldn't hit threes, or even take them...

8. Minnesota shot out of their minds first half. That was the game. We should have been up 8-12 at half not down 2. 

9. Martin looked better. Still wish Bell would get a chance. He made big plays last year.

10. This SHOULD be our only loss of the regular season. Maybe 1 more tops on another bad night.

Lot of good stuff here. 2 scares me because there are a lot of really good lead guards in the A10 (Crutcher, Fatts, Hyland). 

That said, 7-1 with a road loss to a Big 10 team could be a hell of a lot worse. 

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I am in agreement, but do you want Bell to take minutes from Linssen or French...in tight games?  I'm good where we are right now.  Rammer reported when he asked Ford before last night's game if he would play two bigs, his  response was something like, only if things aren't going well.

 

if he's deserved i have no problem.   currently as things appear, he is getting what he has earned as well as the other two bigs.   but if in practice is out playing linssen or even french, then so be it, he should play more.   i seriously doubt that would ever be future billiken hof'r french, but it could happen with linssen.  but currently i am impressed with what linssen has brought to the floor and he is a perfect backup big.   probably the best backup big we have ever had.  typically we take a huge backwards step when french goes to the bench.   but now, while it is still a step down, linssen comes in and does a good job for his limited minutes imo.

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2 hours ago, JettFlight5 said:

Lot of good stuff here. 2 scares me because there are a lot of really good lead guards in the A10 (Crutcher, Fatts, Hyland). 

That said, 7-1 with a road loss to a Big 10 team could be a hell of a lot worse. 

Yep. Yuri needs to put on his big boy pants

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This entire Yuri got schooled and someone is worried because we have other good guards in the A10. I just don't agree with this. 

Yuri had 7 assist against 2 t/o's last night. Not the greatest defensive game and he fouled out. 

However in last year vs Dayton, RI, Rich, Aub, SH. and VCU he averaged 5.8/6.2/3.4. His season averages 5.4/5.5/3.2

This year in the 3 big games he his stats 7.6/6/3 

He's clearly struggling against the teams with good guards. 

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1 hour ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

If that were true, then wouldn't they have lost a lot more votes than they did?

They got less votes then the week before even though they over performed against IN State and beating NC State.  The loss in MN was a road game as Whiz pointed out are hard to win under any circumstances.  My point was that they paid more dearly then other P5 schools would have had the same  2-1 record.

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Schools like us face that Top 25 backlash when you lose.  Where do you think Dayton would have fallen to if we beat  them in Brooklyn last year?  They weren't getting much confidence for a #1 seed before that but if they had lost to us i could see them being a #3 or #4 even.  

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Good stuff on the original post.  I disagree with the yuri comments (not in original post but some have been critical).  I thought he had a fine game.  Running almost every offensive possession AND guarding the other team’s best scorer is a tall task.  Ford should have started Goodwin on him until we discovered Thatch was the best play.

I’m a huge fan of Bell.  But he needs to learn to finish stronger in my opinion.  His major weakness is on the offensive end.  He needs a mean streak or something.  So many times he gets a rebound and I just want him to smash a dunk so hard in everyone’s face it rattles gym, but he tries to lay it in and gets blocked half the time.   If he wants a lot of playing time he’s got to figure it out because Okoro will be there next year with linssen.

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10 hours ago, Dr. Holly Hills said:

Good stuff on the original post.  I disagree with the yuri comments (not in original post but some have been critical).  I thought he had a fine game.  Running almost every offensive possession AND guarding the other team’s best scorer is a tall task.  Ford should have started Goodwin on him until we discovered Thatch was the best play.

I’m a huge fan of Bell.  But he needs to learn to finish stronger in my opinion.  His major weakness is on the offensive end.  He needs a mean streak or something.  So many times he gets a rebound and I just want him to smash a dunk so hard in everyone’s face it rattles gym, but he tries to lay it in and gets blocked half the time.   If he wants a lot of playing time he’s got to figure it out because Okoro will be there next year with linssen.

It was me...I kinda overreacted to Carr scoring a ton on us. Goodwin is probably the best defender we have. 

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1 hour ago, JettFlight5 said:

It was me...I kinda overreacted to Carr scoring a ton on us. Goodwin is probably the best defender we have. 

goodwin is a very good defender.   however, i believe because of superior athleticism, i think thatch is actually better and more effective particularly if the opponent is quicker.   both are excellent.   i guess it really isnt much difference in most cases. 

if only one is going to be in the game at that time, i would take goodwin simply because his rebounding and offense is superior.  gotta be able to exceed on both ends of the floor

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Great post game analysis from all posters, thank you.

I felt for our team to be a potential third week NCAA tournament team that the team would need big contributions from Jimmy Bell.  Bell is the only player on this team big enough to defend opponents 6-10 plus bigs.  Based on how Bell finished last season and how good Bell played against RI I just don’t understand why he does not get some of Linssen’s minutes to defend.  Scoring like our team does is fun to watch but I feel what has been lacking with our team is defense.  Our team gives up way too many points.  Our teams scoring was enough to win against Minnesota but the defense was not.  As much as I like Linssen’s offense I do not think he defends well against other teams big players.

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19 hours ago, JettFlight5 said:

Lot of good stuff here. 2 scares me because there are a lot of really good lead guards in the A10 (Crutcher, Fatts, Hyland). 

That said, 7-1 with a road loss to a Big 10 team could be a hell of a lot worse. 

There’s no one in our league that can score like Carr. Well, maybe one in Perkins, but I don’t think Yuri is going to have to guard him anytime soon. Yuri has been good defensively every game this year, including LSU where Smart is a good good player

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12 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Great post game analysis from all posters, thank you.

I felt for our team to be a potential third week NCAA tournament team that the team would need big contributions from Jimmy Bell.  Bell is the only player on this team big enough to defend opponents 6-10 plus bigs.  Based on how Bell finished last season and how good Bell played against RI I just don’t understand why he does not get some of Linssen’s minutes to defend.  Scoring like our team does is fun to watch but I feel what has been lacking with our team is defense.  Our team gives up way too many points.  Our teams scoring was enough to win against Minnesota but the defense was not.  As much as I like Linssen’s offense I do not think he defends well against other teams big players.

We were not giving up a ton of points to their bigs.  We were giving them up to the smalls, which happened to be bigger and just as athletic as our smalls. And Carr is special.  We're talking first team All Big 10 special.

Their frontcourt length, however, was bothering our perimeter scorers.  Jimmy Bell doesn't solve that problem.  Perkins and Jimerson need the experience of going against this kind of length because it's possible we'll face it again in the tournament.

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

goodwin is a very good defender.   however, i believe because of superior athleticism, i think thatch is actually better and more effective particularly if the opponent is quicker.   both are excellent.   i guess it really isnt much difference in most cases. 

if only one is going to be in the game at that time, i would take goodwin simply because his rebounding and offense is superior.  gotta be able to exceed on both ends of the floor

This is always an interesting discussion - best defender.  There are a lot of areas to discuss.  Are we talking on ball defender, help out, switches, recovery etc?  I agree, I believe Thatch is the best on ball defender we have.  He has great footwork and very quick to adjust.  I see him typically in the grill of the ball handler.  I wonder who is 'stronger', Thatch or Goodwin, but it really doesn't matter.  Stronger in the weight room or stronger on the floor?  It would be an interesting session to see them in the weight room.  Goodwin perhaps uses his strength better than Thatch, but that is only a perception of mine.  He has had many more minutes to figure out how to use his body than Thatch has.  I am basically discussing Goodwin's 3 seasons with Thatch's last 3 games.

Thatch is maybe a fraction quicker than Goodwin, and reportedly has one of the best, if not the best, vertical on the team.  But which one is better offensively isn't even a discussion (at this time).

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

goodwin is a very good defender.   however, i believe because of superior athleticism, i think thatch is actually better and more effective particularly if the opponent is quicker.   both are excellent.   i guess it really isnt much difference in most cases. 

I think Jgoods Defense could be better if he didnt go so hard on offense every single play.  I really think at times he uses defense as a breather, which is understandbale. Fred may be the better defender for that reason alone. 

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9 minutes ago, wgstl said:

I think J-Good's defense could be better if he didn't go so hard on offense every single play.  I really think at times he uses defense as a breather, which is understandable. Fred may be the better defender for that reason alone. 

Coaches (and color commentators) say that when you're on offense is when you're supposed to "rest."

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