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GDT: Hungry for some wolves


Littlebill

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Just now, ARon said:

+1

This year’s team is deeper and more talented yes. But the 2011-2012 squad was a better team and I think their defense would feast on this year’s team when guys get into hero ball mode.  As you say, maybe by the end of the year we think differently.

This year's team would run that team out of the gym. Majerus's teams just didn't have enough raw talent and depth. 

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14 minutes ago, VeniceMenace said:

How many other Billikens teams have won 11 straight? Anyone who still thinks there are better SLU teams in the modern era needs to see a shrink.

2012 - 2013 did (in one season)

https://slubillikens.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2012-13

[But they didn't win 12 straight, which I think this team will do]

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16 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

Yup.  You are exactly right.  I personally have a bias towards more disciplined teams, so that colors my view.  Even in college, I begged for GW to play more disciplined, and one of the years they only lost 1 regular season game playing more run and gun.

 

Yup again.  I think we can become more disciplined, but as @cgeldmacher said, Ford recruits a different type of player.  And this type of player came in handy tonight (e.g. Jacobs contributing in the second half).  But it can also result in some unforced errors.

Discipline and execution are traits of coaching, not the type of player recruited. I’ll leave it at that.

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2 minutes ago, davidnark said:

I love Jett, but everyone forgets that Jett didn't even start until his senior season. He was basically a more polished version of Fred Thatch for several years at SLU. He had a great, great senior year, but Goodwin can do so many more things on the court. 

This a fantastic counter argument to me @davidnark. :)  I agree that Jett's senior season is an outlier (an argument I often make when I try to advocate that Evans was the best player on those teams).

Goodwin is great, and his rebounding is unmatched.  I would rather though have Jett with the ball in his hands in the last minutes of a game than Goodwin.

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2 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Are posters actually saying Goodwin had a bad game? 

16 points / 5-9 from 2 / 0-2 from 3 / 6-8 from the line. 15 boards / 5 assists with 4 t/o's / a block and 2 steals. 

2 less t/o's and we're calling this one of the best games of his career. 

Quit getting focused on a couple of bad mistakes and see the real game. Goodwin plays so hard he'll always be prone to a few mistakes and/or silly looking plays. For the record he averaged 3.1 t/o's last year. 

Jordan Goodwin was fantastic tonight, any other take is wrong

Goodwin was going TOO HARD in the 1st half and was actually pretty bad. He flipped the switch and was much better in the 2nd half. He put up counting stats, but he heavily contributed to how poorly we played in the 1st half. I realize he’s making aggressive mistakes, but he’s gotta let the game come to him and not force things. That stuff ain’t gonna work come March, which should be our ultimate goal. I have no doubt JGood himself would say the exact same thing.

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36 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Something is up with either the Bills shoes or the floor. 3-4 Bills slipped in the 1st half and on Yuri's t/o to start the 2nd his feet are slipping out from under him

I'm glad you mentioned this.  I thought the same thing last game.  Something is either wrong with the floor or with the shoes our guys are wearing.

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6 minutes ago, davidnark said:

This year's team would run that team out of the gym. Majerus's teams just didn't have enough raw talent and depth. 

Those teams hung with VCU okay.  And VCU ran around the gym a bit.

Edit Addition: I agree with you that this team has FAR more talent and depth.  And something that has yet to be emphasized for the current team being better argument is that this team has many more ways to win.  How many different players put the team on their back for a few minutes?  Collins, Jacobs, and Jimmerson each did.  And it was great. Having Jimmerson (along with Goodwin and Yuri) being able to be a 3 point threat is absolutely huge.  It creates space for other players.  

The discipline though that Majerus put into those teams was incredible.

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7 minutes ago, ARon said:

+1

This year’s team is deeper and more talented yes. But the 2011-2012 squad was a better team and I think their defense would feast on this year’s team when guys get into hero ball mode.  As you say, maybe by the end of the year we think differently.

Rickma's team lacked offense to go with that amazing defense, this team has a much better balance of both 

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1 minute ago, SluSignGuy said:

Those teams hung with VCU okay.  And VCU ran around the gym a bit.

This team just has too many weapons, in my opinion. With Hargrove’s improved perimeter shooting and athleticism, how many minutes would he be getting on those Majerus teams? He’s the 3rd or 4th guy coming of the bench right now. It would be close though.

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Why have teams been full court pressing us?  We have an exceptional point and depth for handling the ball, I’d say it’s one of our strong suits.. ncst even with a depleted roster thought it was worth risking tiring out their guys to press us..  maybe they are watching last year’s tape???

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5 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

This a fantastic counter argument to me @davidnark. :)  I agree that Jett's senior season is an outlier (an argument I often make when I try to advocate that Evans was the best player on those teams).

Goodwin is great, and his rebounding is unmatched.  I would rather though have Jett with the ball in his hands in the last minutes of a game than Goodwin.

They really shouldn’t be compared, as their games are very different. But since we’re all having fun here: Jett’s career high in rebounds was 10, which he did once. We all know Goodwin AVERAGES that per game.

Some day soon we will all regret not appreciating Goodwin more during his career. He is truly a once in a lifetime player.

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5 minutes ago, davidnark said:

This year's team would run that team out of the gym. Majerus's teams just didn't have enough raw talent and depth. 

I think this team wins 7 out of ten times against that team, but they don’t run them out of the gym.  That team was damn good.  As much as I love French, the Conklin of the 11-12 season was a better player and overall the frontline on that team was better and deeper with Evans, Ellis and Loe.

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Just now, Dr. Holly Hills said:

Why have teams been full court pressing us?  We have an exceptional point and depth for handling the ball, I’d say it’s one of our strong suits.. ncst even with a depleted roster thought it was worth risking tiring out their guys to press us..  maybe they are watching last year’s tape???

I think that’s just how NC State plays, kinda like VCU under Shaka. I think it was about it being a weakness for SLU (even though we did have 20 turnovers) and more about how NC State plays D.

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2 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

They really shouldn’t be compared, as their games are very different. But since we’re all having fun here: Jett’s career high in rebounds was 10, which he did once. We all know Goodwin AVERAGES that per game.

Some day soon we will all regret not appreciating Goodwin more during his career. He is truly a once in a lifetime player.

This thread is forcing me to rethink my Goodwin appreciation (in the sense that I probably don't appreciate him enough).  I think you may be right, and I am spoiled by he has contributed a lot in 4 years and I won't really fully appreciate it until he is gone.

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2 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

Goodwin was going TOO HARD in the 1st half and was actually pretty bad. He flipped the switch and was much better in the 2nd half. He put up counting stats, but he heavily contributed to how poorly we played in the 1st half. I realize he’s making aggressive mistakes, but he’s gotta let the game come to him and not force things. That stuff ain’t gonna work come March, which should be our ultimate goal. I have no doubt JGood himself would say the exact same thing.

Don't completely disagree with the 1st half take. He actually only took 6 (2/6) shots and committed 3 t/o's. Make 1 more shot and 1 less t/o and it doesn't look that bad.  What exactly is a counting stat? A rebound that didn't make a difference? An irrelevant basket? 

Jordan Goodwin doesn't let the game come to him. He attacks the game. Without that mentality he isn't the same player. Yes it leads to some bad plays but if you concentrate on the bad plays you're missing the big picture. 

 

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8 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

Goodwin is great, and his rebounding is unmatched.  I would rather though have Jett with the ball in his hands in the last minutes of a game than Goodwin.

This we can agree on; there are at least 2 guys on this team I would rather have the ball ahead of Goodwin with the game on the line (Collins, Perkins, and maybe Jacobs). Only Marque Perry and Larry Hughes were as good as Jett at getting a bucket with the game on the line. Goodwin just doesn't have the handle, crossover, or outside shot necessary for that role. Give me Yuri with the ball, Perkins and Gibson on the wings, and Goodwin ready to crash the offensive boards. 

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1 minute ago, davidnark said:

This we can agree on; there are at least 2 guys on this team I would rather have the ball ahead of Goodwin with the game on the line (Collins, Perkins, and maybe Jacobs). Only Marque Perry and Larry Hughes were as good as Jett at getting a bucket with the game on the line. 

Completely agree here.  Before I finished reading your post I thought: Marque Perry.  God did he put the team on his back his senior year.  Just barely too late against UAB in the CUSA tournament.

 

2 minutes ago, davidnark said:

 Give me Yuri with the ball, Perkins and Gibson on the wings, and Goodwin ready to crash the offensive boards. 

That is a very pretty offense :)

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15 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

This a fantastic counter argument to me @davidnark. :)  I agree that Jett's senior season is an outlier (an argument I often make when I try to advocate that Evans was the best player on those teams).

Goodwin is great, and his rebounding is unmatched.  I would rather though have Jett with the ball in his hands in the last minutes of a game than Goodwin.

Well if we could just play the last 15 seconds of every game, Jett's the better player. For the other 39 min 45 seconds as great as Jett was I'll take JGood

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1 minute ago, slufanskip said:

Don't completely disagree with the 1st half take. He actually only took 6 (2/6) shots and committed 3 t/o's. Make 1 more shot and 1 less t/o and it doesn't look that bad.  What exactly is a counting stat? A rebound that didn't make a difference? An irrelevant basket? 

Jordan Goodwin doesn't let the game come to him. He attacks the game. Without that mentality he isn't the same player. Yes it leads to some bad plays but if you concentrate on the bad plays you're missing the big picture. 

 

A counting stat is points or rebounds or assist. You can score 30 points, but if you take 30 shots, those numbers look better than they really are. I have no problem with attacking, but there’s a difference between being aggressive and being stupid. Driving into the lane with nowhere to go and turning it over. Taking 19-foot jumpers with 23 seconds left in the shot clock. Those mistakes are expected from Strickland, not from Goodwin. JGood knows he didn’t play great tonight (though he was 100% better in the 2nd half). He’s going to be better on Sunday, I have no doubt. But I don’t think it’s all that controversial to say it was a tale of 2 halves for JGood tonight.

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5 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think this team wins 7 out of ten times against that team, but they don’t run them out of the gym.  That team was damn good.  As much as I love French, the Conklin of the 11-12 season was a better player and overall the frontline on that team was better and deeper with Evans, Ellis and Loe.

Except that Majerus played a double post with a stretch big, and Ford tends to play 4 out and 1 in, which means you are really comparing Loe/Remekun to French/Linsen/Bell and Evans/Ellis to Perkins/Jacobs/Hargrove. 

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12 minutes ago, Dr. Holly Hills said:

Why have teams been full court pressing us?  We have an exceptional point and depth for handling the ball, I’d say it’s one of our strong suits.. ncst even with a depleted roster thought it was worth risking tiring out their guys to press us..  maybe they are watching last year’s tape???

Specific to NC State - why would you press us when your team hasn’t played and has hardly practiced in two weeks and you are only playing 7 guys?

That’s what their fans are dumbfounded by right now.

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