GDT: Hungry for some wolves

[davidnark]

1 minute ago, SluSignGuy said:

I We also had some very bad turnovers.  NC State's defense was good, but Evans, McCall, and Jett teams were much more disciplined.  I still think too many players on the current team go into "hero" ball mode.  This team has many more options than the Evans, McCall, and Jett team, which is fantastic.  But I would say the team where Evans, McCall, and Jett are juniors and Ellis was a senior would beat this team, at least right now.

I respectfully disagree Steve. Yuri is a difference-making point guard with better a/o than anyone on that team.  I would take Yuri over McCall, Goodwin over Jett, Perkins over Ellis, and French over Evans, and this team takes spots 5-10 without any debate. The Majerus team didn't have anywhere near enough talent to hang with this team. I think this team takes 18/20 games against them.

[dlarry]

10 minutes ago, brianstl said:

We all run with Yuri.

Yuri has become a great leader a year ahead of schedule.

He is an underclass man with 3 great Billiken Seniors and he isn’t afraid to take over a game or let his voice be heard.

He is a special player and I don’t think we need to worry about who step into the leadership role when our Big 3 move on.

[HoosierPal]

 

[Reinert310]

3 minutes ago, wgstl said:

What I said was a fact.  What more do you want.  Perkins missed 3(!) gimmies with no points and a few TO's with just 2 minutes left. 

I agree with every single point you made. Goodwin made a lot of mistakes tonight that a senior leader just shouldn’t make. I never want to see Has running the offense in an even relatively close game ever again. Perk missed several bunnies and needs to be stronger with the ball. Just because we have an excellent team, and all 3 seniors are all-time great Billikens DOES NOT mean they are free from criticism. The funny thing is: I guarantee you, JGood, Has and Perk would say the EXACT SAME THINGS about their game tonight. I fully expect all 3 of them to play better on Sunday. All 3 of our senior leaders didn’t play their best and we still won by double digits. That’s a frightening thought.

[White Pelican]

2 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

I am not one of the quoted above, but I said some negative things in this thread.  I am very excited about this team, and they did a great job coming back. But I think tonight did show that we are not as good as I think some like to think we are. 

Particularly, we saw what happens when we go against a very good BIG man.  French is probably the best power forward the Billikens have had in the time I have been a fan, but his size will hold him back.  We won't see many big men like that in the A-10, but we very well could in March.

We also had some very bad turnovers.  NC State's defense was good, but Evans, McCall, and Jett teams were much more disciplined.  I still think too many players on the current team go into "hero" ball mode.  This team has many more options than the Evans, McCall, and Jett team, which is fantastic.  But I would say the team where Evans, McCall, and Jett are juniors and Ellis was a senior would beat this team, at least right now.

Yeah, I felt it (the first half and the way we played) was a wake-up call. Like running into a brick wall wake-up call. There were too many poor shots taken (when we actually could get a shot and not turn the ball over) and I thought everyone was guilty of it. I was hoping it was "big game" jitters and felt that Ford would get them to calm down, but it never happened in the first half. We were lucky we were able to hang around and not get blown out early.

The MN game will be a test of going on the road (albeit without fans and noise) and it'll be interesting to see if they play a bit more disciplined from the get-go. And we should win that one after pulling this one out.

I agree with your take about how good we fans think they are. I believe we'll do very well in the A-10 but we'll have to see after that. I do still think this is the best SLU team that I've ever seen.

[Bills_06]

16 minutes ago, brianstl said:

We all run with Yuri.

Shame they didn't include Goodwin's response.  I imagine it went like this.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e8c41a95-d900-40d7-b9a1-58f714798df2

[cgeldmacher]

11 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

I am not one of the quoted above, but I said some negative things in this thread.  I am very excited about this team, and they did a great job coming back. But I think tonight did show that we are not as good as I think some like to think we are. 

Particularly, we saw what happens when we go against a very good BIG man.  French is probably the best power forward the Billikens have had in the time I have been a fan, but his size will hold him back.  We won't see many big men like that in the A-10, but we very well could in March.

We also had some very bad turnovers.  NC State's defense was good, but Evans, McCall, and Jett teams were much more disciplined.  I still think too many players on the current team go into "hero" ball mode.  This team has many more options than the Evans, McCall, and Jett team, which is fantastic.  But I would say the team where Evans, McCall, and Jett are juniors and Ellis was a senior would beat this team, at least right now.

I don't disagree, but all things considered, good and bad, I still think they are a better team.  Also, I think you're being too hard on French.  We doubled them in rebounds despite the size difference between Has and they really good big man.  That has to be considered in the equation.

Also, the Evans, Jett, McCall team(s) were disciplined because that's what Majerus demanded.  Ford has recruited a team that he thinks can run with the ball and he wants them to do that.  That will always look more sloppy, but may be more effective in winning games.

[wgstl]

I do think with the amont of TO's + adversity with this game should help with out first road game

[billikenbill]

46 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I'm just now watching the game. After watching Obi set screens last year the call on the Linssen just drives me nuts. No way that's a bad screen. 

This is the correct take on that subject.

[Reinert310]

5 minutes ago, davidnark said:

I respectfully disagree Steve. Yuri is a difference-making point guard with better a/o than anyone on that team.  I would take Yuri over McCall, Goodwin over Jett, Perkins over Ellis, and French over Evans, and this team takes spots 5-10 without any debate. The Majerus team didn't have anywhere near enough talent to hang with this team. I think this team takes 18/20 games against them.

I think we’re making a lot of assumptions because we didn’t play our best tonight. And I get that. This is still only game 6. The discipline will get better. We’ll get better with the unforced errors. We played the worst half of basketball that we’ve played since the middle of the conference season last year, and we still ended up winning by double digits. I’m not sure any other Billikens team pulls that off.

[DOC]

11 minutes ago, wgstl said:

What I said was a fact.  What more do you want.  Perkins missed 3(!) gimmies with no points and a few TO's with just 2 minutes left. 

Couldn't agree more. It's a game time thread. Perkins was the worst player on the floor at the time.

[SluSignGuy]

Just now, davidnark said:

I respectfully disagree Steve. Yuri is a difference-making point guard with better a/o than anyone on that team.  I would take Yuri over McCall, Goodwin over Jett, Perkins over Ellis, and French over Evans, and this team takes spots 5-10 without any debate. The Majerus team didn't have anywhere near enough talent to hang with this team. I think this team takes 18/20 games against them.

You make a good point on Yuri.  I underappreciate him, probably because he is still making some mistakes.  But his court awareness is tremendous.  If he continues his trajectory, he will be be the best point guard since I have been a fan.  

I will disagree on French and Goodwin.  Each are very very good players, I will never see a guard rebound like Goodwin, and as I said early, French is the best power forward the Billikens have had in my time as a fan. But each individually, Evans and Jett were better.  Evans was first team all A-10 each his junior and senior year, and Jett was A-10 conference player of the year.  The reason why I highlight the team when they were juniors is because Evans dropped a bit when Ellis graduated.  Evans had to play more post that year, which in my opinion is why Jett was able to shine more.  Remember, that team got to #10 in the country with a horrible coach.

I do think this team can surpass that team.  But they are not there yet.

[wgstl]

5 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

All 3 of our senior leaders didn’t play their best and we still won by double digits. That’s a frightening thought.

I noticed this, and got really happy on this alone 

[Minerva N. Owl]

52 minutes ago, MichaelC said:

Where is the tremendous depth this team was supposed to possess? No 2nd half minutes for Thatch, Bell or Hargrove. Right now, it looks like Ford only trusts 7 guys with Jacobs and Gibson sharing a spot and Linssen spelling French. 

 

During Ford's post-game interview, he noted that he wanted to get more guys in during the second half, but when things started clicking, he stuck with what was working, and he praised the guys on the bench for their cheers and support.

Notice the +/- in the 1st half: Thatch, Hargrove, Linssen led, Bell was neutral, everyone else minus

The minutes put in by Thatch, Hargrove, and Bell in the first half not only helped the others have fresh legs, but the positively contributed during a really ugly stretch.

Depth in the first half was an important but subtle element that helped support the big late turn-around.

[wgstl]

nm

[BilliesBy40]

3 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

You make a good point on Yuri.  I underappreciate him, probably because he is still making some mistakes.  But his court awareness is tremendous.  If he continues his trajectory, he will be be the best point guard since I have been a fan.  

I will disagree on French and Goodwin.  Each are very very good players, I will never see a guard rebound like Goodwin, and as I said early, French is the best power forward the Billikens have had in my time as a fan. But each individually, Evans and Jett were better.  Evans was first team all A-10 each his junior and senior year, and Jett was A-10 conference player of the year.  The reason why I highlight the team when they were juniors is because Evans dropped a bit when Ellis graduated.  Evans had to play more post that year, which in my opinion is why Jett was able to shine more.  Remember, that team got to #10 in the country with a horrible coach.

I do think this team can surpass that team.  But they are not there yet.

I agree about Evans vs. French, although French is a better fit for this team. But you’re flat out wrong about Goodwin vs. Jett. Goodwin’s stats will make him a top 3 Billiken EVER.

[slufanskip]

7 minutes ago, davidnark said:

I respectfully disagree Steve. Yuri is a difference-making point guard with better a/o than anyone on that team.  I would take Yuri over McCall, Goodwin over Jett, Perkins over Ellis, and French over Evans, and this team takes spots 5-10 without any debate. The Majerus team didn't have anywhere near enough talent to hang with this team. I think this team takes 18/20 games against them.

You beat me to this. Yes we looked bad in the 1st half, all teams play poorly for stretches. Big team coming in, no time to prepare, they know they win tonight and against Minn and they're likely ranked. It's a big deal. They also missed a few easy shots that they won't miss often. This game for me reinforced the fact we are as good as I think we are. We beat NC State a more than likely tourney team by 17 points in the 2nd half. We scored 51 2nd half points against a tourney quality team. 

We shot 58/43/74 in the 2nd half. What was RM's number 180? Well that's 175 as a team. We outrebounded them by 27. Despite the poor first half we win this game by 11. 

This team beats any Majerus team consistently

[VeniceMenace]

8 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

I think we’re making a lot of assumptions because we didn’t play our best tonight. And I get that. This is still only game 6. The discipline will get better. We’ll get better with the unforced errors. We played the worst half of basketball that we’ve played since the middle of the conference season last year, and we still ended up winning by double digits. I’m not sure any other Billikens team pulls that off.

How many other Billikens teams have won 11 straight? Anyone who still thinks there are better SLU teams in the modern era needs to see a shrink.

[SluSignGuy]

4 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

 

Also, the Evans, Jett, McCall team(s) were disciplined because that's what Majerus demanded.  Ford has recruited a team that he thinks can run with the ball and he wants them to do that.  That will always look more sloppy, but may be more effective in winning games.

Yup.  You are exactly right.  I personally have a bias towards more disciplined teams, so that colors my view.  Even in college, I begged for GW to play more disciplined, and one of the years they only lost 1 regular season game playing more run and gun.

 

6 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

I think we’re making a lot of assumptions because we didn’t play our best tonight. And I get that. This is still only game 6. The discipline will get better. We’ll get better with the unforced errors. We played the worst half of basketball that we’ve played since the middle of the conference season last year, and we still ended up winning by double digits. I’m not sure any other Billikens team pulls that off.

Yup again.  I think we can become more disciplined, but as @cgeldmacher said, Ford recruits a different type of player.  And this type of player came in handy tonight (e.g. Jacobs contributing in the second half).  But it can also result in some unforced errors.

[Taj79]

We played an actual D1 team tonite.  No more little sisters of the poor.  We had athleticism met by athleticism.  It took us a while to adjust because we were spoiled by the first five.  I said early “calm down.”  We did.  For as bad as the first half was we were only down 6.  Not bad considering.  NCState got tired.  Many saw that.  Ford ran them ragged first half.  It contributed to the helter skelter style.  YMCA ball.  Guys were pumped to play a ‘big boy.’  The fact that we recovered and won by 11 should make us all feel really, really good.  We need that closing stretch to be our opening stretch most nights.  Can’t wait for this road test Sunday.

[SluSignGuy]

14 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

I agree about Evans vs. French, although French is a better fit for this team. But you’re flat out wrong about Goodwin vs. Jett. Goodwin’s stats will make him a top 3 Billiken EVER.

Totally agree about fit.  If you gave me this team, and I had the choice between Evans and French.  I would take French.  If you asked me to draft a player for a blank Billikens team, I would take Evans.

12 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

You beat me to this. Yes we looked bad in the 1st half, all teams play poorly for stretches. Big team coming in, no time to prepare, they know they win tonight and against Minn and they're likely ranked. It's a big deal. They also missed a few easy shots that they won't miss often. This game for me reinforced the fact we are as good as I think we are. We beat NC State a more than likely tourney team by 17 points in the 2nd half. We scored 51 2nd half points against a tourney quality team. 

We shot 58/43/74 in the 2nd half. What was RM's number 180? Well that's 175 as a team. We outrebounded them by 27. Despite the poor first half we win this game by 11. 

This team beats any Majerus team consistently

I think this team is VERY VERY VERY good.  And if the players are reading the board, I think you are AWESOME.  I am comparing you to a team that hit #10 in the nation, and you could end up there. 

I am not trying to base my opinion on one half, but more the core of this year and last year.  We had a good end to the end of the season last year, but before then we were pretty shaky.  This shows improvement, something evident in almost all of Ford's teams.  And if past is prologue, we will see it this year.  But I don't think we are there yet.

In a serious question (since I could be forgetting a win), what win in the last two years would you put on the same level as Dayton, VCU, or Butler in 2012 - 2013?

[wgstl]

4 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

We played an actual D1 team tonite.  No more little sisters of the poor.  We had athleticism met by athleticism.  It took us a while to adjust because we were spoiled by the first five. 

Ill willing to bet LSU is a better team than NC state

[slufanskip]

Are posters actually saying Goodwin had a bad game? 

16 points / 5-9 from 2 / 0-2 from 3 / 6-8 from the line. 15 boards / 5 assists with 4 t/o's / a block and 2 steals. 

2 less t/o's and we're calling this one of the best games of his career. 

Quit getting focused on a couple of bad mistakes and see the real game. Goodwin plays so hard he'll always be prone to a few mistakes and/or silly looking plays. For the record he averaged 3.1 t/o's last year. 

Jordan Goodwin was fantastic tonight, any other take is wrong

[ARon]

18 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

You make a good point on Yuri.  I underappreciate him, probably because he is still making some mistakes.  But his court awareness is tremendous.  If he continues his trajectory, he will be be the best point guard since I have been a fan.  

I will disagree on French and Goodwin.  Each are very very good players, I will never see a guard rebound like Goodwin, and as I said early, French is the best power forward the Billikens have had in my time as a fan. But each individually, Evans and Jett were better.  Evans was first team all A-10 each his junior and senior year, and Jett was A-10 conference player of the year.  The reason why I highlight the team when they were juniors is because Evans dropped a bit when Ellis graduated.  Evans had to play more post that year, which in my opinion is why Jett was able to shine more.  Remember, that team got to #10 in the country with a horrible coach.

I do think this team can surpass that team.  But they are not there yet.

+1

This year’s team is deeper and more talented yes. But the 2011-2012 squad was a better team and I think their defense would feast on this year’s team when guys get into hero ball mode.  As you say, maybe by the end of the year we think differently.

[davidnark]

15 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

I agree about Evans vs. French, although French is a better fit for this team. But you’re flat out wrong about Goodwin vs. Jett. Goodwin’s stats will make him a top 3 Billiken EVER.

I love Jett, but everyone forgets that Jett didn't even start until his senior season. He was basically a more polished version of Fred Thatch for several years at SLU. He had a great, great senior year, but Goodwin can do so many more things on the court.