billiken_roy Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 55 minutes ago, Duff Man said: Over the last 6 games, Goodwin is averaging 18.7 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 3.7 APG, 2.3 SPG, 2.5 TOV, 50.0% FG, 35.0% 3FG, 71.9% FT goodwin better watch out. these are nba worthy numbers imo. Schasz, BIG BILL FAN, HenryB and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papal Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 Not trying to be critical, but who is the Bills all-time turnover leader? Jordair had a lot of turnovers early in his career,but improved a great deal later on. Jim Roder had ?19 assists in a game;how many turnovers in that game. Turnovers can also be misleading, since they are part of being an aggressive player-ie Goodwin; who has best turnover/assist ratio? who has worst? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Man Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 3 hours ago, papal said: Not trying to be critical, but who is the Bills all-time turnover leader? Jordair had a lot of turnovers early in his career,but improved a great deal later on. Jim Roder had ?19 assists in a game;how many turnovers in that game. Turnovers can also be misleading, since they are part of being an aggressive player-ie Goodwin; who has best turnover/assist ratio? who has worst? 1. LaTodd Johnson, 1979-80 to 1982-83 338 2. Tommie Liddell, 2005-06 to 2008-09 317 3. Anthony Bonner, 1986-87 to 1989-90 316 4. Jordair Jett, 2010-11 to 2013-14 295 5. Kwamain Mitchell, 2008-09 to 2012-13 280 6. Monroe Douglass, 1985-86 to 1988-89 267 7. Josh Fisher, 2000-01 to 2003-04 262 8. Marque Perry, 1999-00 to 2002-03 260 9. Roland Gray, 1985-86 to 1988-89 250 10. Luther Burden, 1982-83 to 1984-85 244 Not sure how far back turnovers are recorded, but this was the list headed into this season. Goodwin started the year just outside the top 10 with 240 and is currently 7th with 265 just 2 behind Monroe Douglass. Here's a bunch of Assist to Turnover ratios for players 1980s to present - I just looked up a bunch of guys, there might be somebody with a better ratio than H Waldman, but he and Roder were the only ones I could find better than Yuri Collins Waldman 2.458 Roder 2.451 Yuri 2.027 Newberry 1.893 Pee Wee 1.848 McCall 1.720 Walker 1.699 Fisher 1.664 Kwamain 1.500 Lisch 1.450 Jett 1.431 Claggett 1.411 McCauley 1.404 Goodwin 1.332 Drejaj 1.231 LaTodd 1.186 Gray 1.116 Perry 1.055 Douglass 1.045 Burns 1.000 Highmark 0.976 Liddell 0.987 Burden 0.897 Bonner 0.838 Love 0.744 Hughes 0.631 Big Mel 0.605 Vouyoukas 0.603 Willie 0.340 RUBillsFan likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papal Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Thanks. Interesting that many of our greatest players on the turnover list.. I guess it shows that to be great you must be aggressive and that leads to turnovers. slufanskip likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 look @ the HOFers for MLB baseball under strikeouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 4 hours ago, papal said: Thanks. Interesting that many of our greatest players on the turnover list.. I guess it shows that to be great you must be aggressive and that leads to turnovers. That's exactly what I've been saying regarding JGood and Yuri. If you tell them to change their aggressiveness it'll change who they are. Then I hear well just cut back on the bad plays. If they thought they were going to be bad plays or turnovers they wouldn't have attempted them in the first place. Great players play with extreme confidence that sometimes leads to bad plays, but changing their nature leads to them being different players. With experience they gain some feel for what is good or bad, but neither of those two and as you can see by the leading t/o list will ever b e players where you don't say wtf ... now and then Major Majerus, BilliesBy40, almaman and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Holly Hills Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Career leaders in never turning the ball over: 1. Joey Bag-of-doughnuts 2. Bobby Milktoast 3. Jim crews recruit #1 4. Jim crews recruit #2 5. Jim cr...... BJK and slufanskip like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Jordan Goodwin is this team's most important player day in and day out. He's having a monster year, and his effort never fades. I hope the young guys take notice of his work ethic (much like he learned from Javon Bess). slufanskip and Schasz like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 HenryB, Crewsorlose and rgbilliken like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Man Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 On 12/25/2020 at 2:48 PM, papal said: Thanks. Interesting that many of our greatest players on the turnover list.. I guess it shows that to be great you must be aggressive and that leads to turnovers. Here's that list re-ordered with made FG factored in, ranked by Ratio of FG + A to Turnovers - providing a bit more context for positives (made FG and assists) vs turnovers. Player FG A TO A/TO FG/TO (FG+A)/TO Claggett 657 347 246 1.411 2.671 4.081 Waldman 189 295 120 2.458 1.575 4.033 Ellis 329 99 107 0.925 3.075 4.000 Douglass 766 279 267 1.045 2.869 3.914 Bess 300 136 112 1.214 2.679 3.893 Gray 694 279 250 1.116 2.776 3.892 McCall 413 339 197 1.721 2.096 3.817 Cobbin 365 143 135 1.059 2.704 3.763 Lisch 516 325 224 1.451 2.304 3.754 Cassity 234 320 148 2.162 1.581 3.743 Dobbs 376 125 137 0.912 2.745 3.657 Roder 158 353 144 2.451 1.097 3.549 Crawford 327 144 136 1.059 2.404 3.463 Mitchell 547 420 280 1.500 1.954 3.454 Bonner 774 265 316 0.839 2.449 3.288 Goodwin 490 353 265 1.332 1.849 3.181 Highmark 549 245 251 0.976 2.187 3.163 Willie 273 33 97 0.340 2.814 3.155 French 464 187 209 0.895 2.220 3.115 Burden 533 219 244 0.898 2.184 3.082 Pee Wee 233 370 199 1.859 1.171 3.030 Sloan 231 155 129 1.202 1.791 2.992 Jett 453 422 295 1.431 1.536 2.966 Newberry 267 424 234 1.812 1.141 2.953 Fisher 324 436 262 1.664 1.237 2.901 Evans 543 126 232 0.543 2.341 2.884 Loe 342 153 174 0.879 1.966 2.845 Roby 345 281 224 1.254 1.540 2.795 Liddell 567 313 317 0.987 1.789 2.776 Walker 217 350 206 1.699 1.053 2.752 Burns 399 229 229 1.000 1.742 2.742 Collins 76 229 113 2.027 0.673 2.699 Love 307 122 164 0.744 1.872 2.616 Perry 471 343 325 1.055 1.449 2.505 Conklin 404 105 206 0.510 1.961 2.471 Hughes 224 77 122 0.631 1.836 2.467 Drejaj 273 272 221 1.231 1.235 2.466 Vouyoukas 376 123 204 0.603 1.843 2.446 Henderson 336 89 183 0.486 1.836 2.322 McCauley 158 257 183 1.404 0.863 2.268 LaTodd 180 401 338 1.186 0.533 1.719 Zink and Quality Is Job 1 like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 I’m glad I wasn’t alive yet during LaTodd Johnson’s career. Dude must’ve been incredibly frustrating to watch turn the ball over so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 8 hours ago, thetorch said: if he finishes that high @ end of season he may get a better look than one thought, @ least this 1. if he makes league we should have moron meet & greet in Indy when he plays there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 6 hours ago, RUBillsFan said: I’m glad I wasn’t alive yet during LaTodd Johnson’s career. Dude must’ve been incredibly frustrating to watch turn the ball over so much. He handled the ball a ton, his teammates were trash and the team ran a lot. He wasn't in some Soderberg offense walking the ball up the court and turning it over at half court. Total TOs are a misleading stat. The one that stands out is AB. He had very few assists, never touched the ball outside the paint. If he had the ball there were three outcomes, he scored, he missed the shot, or turned it over. His first 2 seasons he was a TO machine. He had no hands. He got better as his career went on but he was never solid with the ball. AB also would regularly miss dunks. I bet he has 10:1 more missed dunks than any other Billiken. MusicCityBilliken and Duff Man like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 I just looked up the D1 rebound leaders and 1 spot in front of JGood is Malachi Smith from Chatanooga. Went to HS in the Bronx but says born in Belleville Il. Edit must be a different Malachi Smith in the Bronx Sr in HS this year I think. The player for Chatanooga went to school at Belleville West. Top 2 rebounding guards in the country played HS ball in Belleville. That's an odd stat. BilliesBy40 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Malachi was ej liddell's point guard and the teams 2nd best player behind liddell when belleville west won the state title in Liddell's junior year. Very nice player. He was pretty much ignored his freshman season at Wright State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Malachi was ej liddell's point guard and the teams 2nd best player behind liddell when belleville west won the state title in Liddell's junior year. Very nice player. He was pretty much ignored his freshman season at Wright State. Same player transferred to Chattanooga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I guess they teach guards to be tough rebounders in Belleville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJK Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Both Has and Goodwin top 5 active career rebounders! And JGood only needs 8 to hit 1000! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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