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[Reinert310]

Just now, Slu let the dogs out? said:

This. A million times. There is no greater marketing tool for a university than a successful athletic program.

Strongly considered applying to St. John's University solely because I loved watching their 1999 Elite 8 team with Ron Artest, Lavor Postell,  Eric Barkley, and Jarvis at the helm. Knew nothing else about the school other than it was in Queens. Perhaps not the best example since I didn't end up going there but If not for their basketball team it would not have even been a consideration.

You’re absolutely right. I heard when Loyola made their Final Four run, their enrollment went up over 100% the next year. But try explaining that to the Psychology major (or the psychology professor for that matter) who has zero interest in sports. I’m not claiming these arguments are wrong, just saying there are other points of view that need to be accounted for.

[willie]

1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

Reinert.  This isn't a situation of how much do we spend on the volleyball team vs. the school newspaper.   I get the delicate balance you speak of.  I get the constraints of a private school in these times.  Instead, this is a case of does SLU make a true commitment to D1 athletics or not?  If you say no, I respect that opinion.   Instead, I suggest that SLU acts like it wants to be relevant in D1 athletics but its actions point in a different direction.  And I get the inability of SLU to compete with the large, public SEC schools for facilities, etc. but SLU is falling further behind Marquette, Creighton, Boston College, Georgetown, etc.  The Big East looks at more than the men's basketball team record/team and Chaveitz Arena.

Again, I ask.   Are we more attractive to the Big East now than we were back when they said No to us?

Well maybe. If you believe the rumors there was a lot of dislike for Biondi. Under Fred we have continued to upgrade our program. I know there are plans out there to upgrade our facilities even more. Does the Big East care about volleyball? I think our overall commitment is pretty strong. If the Big East ever wants to expand we just need to be their best basketball option. 

[Reinert310]

1 minute ago, willie said:

Well maybe. If you believe the rumors there was a lot of dislike for Biondi. Under Fred we have continued to upgrade our program. I know there are plans out there to upgrade our facilities even more. Does the Big East care about volleyball? I think our overall commitment is pretty strong. If the Big East ever wants to expand we just need to be their best basketball option. 

I agree. We can’t do everything all at once. That was my main point, although I’m not sure how clearly I made it. There needs to be a balance between funding for academic facilities and athletic facilities to keep everyone happy. I realize it may not happen as quickly as some of us (including myself) would like, but there’s another side of the argument that can’t (and shouldn’t) be ignored.

[johnbj14]

7 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

You’re absolutely right. I heard when Loyola made their Final Four run, their enrollment went up over 100% the next year. But try explaining that to the Psychology major (or the psychology professor for that matter) who has zero interest in sports. I’m not claiming these arguments are wrong, just saying there are other points of view that need to be accounted for.

While the view of a psychology major is nice, they are likely not a revenue center for the school. Even if their work is worthy of research grants, it pales in comparison to what the basketball team can generate. I’m all for creative a holistic environment of input for the advancement of SLU, but trustees should absolutely have the improvement of athletic’s national profile on the short list. 

[Reinert310]

1 minute ago, johnbj14 said:

While the view of a psychology major is nice, they are likely not a revenue center for the school. Even if their work is worthy of research grants, it pales in comparison to what the basketball team can generate. I’m all for creative a holistic environment of input for the advancement of SLU, but trustees should absolutely have the improvement of athletic’s national profile on the short list. 

You’re missing my point. I agree with everything everyone has said about the financial benefit of being top tier in athletics. But if you’re on the board of trustees or an executive at the university, you also have to deal with the interests of all the students and faculty, even if those interests are misaligned from potential financial growth. Having to deal with tenured professors, even on trivial matters, is probably just a delight (blue font). Then you had in the discussion of funding, and everything goes off the rails. You get a large group of students protesting at the clock tower because the school funded athletics over academics, now you’ve got a new PR problem. The solution is not as simple as the president getting on a loud speaker and proclaiming, “Advancing our athletic department is what’s best for the university...deal with it!”

[johnbj14]

4 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

You’re missing my point. I agree with everything everyone has said about the financial benefit of being top tier in athletics. But if you’re on the board of trustees or an executive at the university, you also have to deal with the interests of all the students and faculty, even if those interests are misaligned from potential financial growth. Having to deal with tenured professors, even on trivial matters, is probably just a delight (blue font). Then you had in the discussion of funding, and everything goes off the rails. You get a large group of students protesting at the clock tower because the school funded athletics over academics, now you’ve got a new PR problem. The solution is not as simple as the president getting on a loud speaker and proclaiming, “Advancing our athletic department is what’s best for the university...deal with it!”

No I get it. My argument is in a vacuum and not real life. University workings are a tricky balancing act, and while I believe athletics should get a large portion of attention and funding, I can see why stakeholders might not agree. 

[Clock_Tower]

22 minutes ago, willie said:

Well maybe. If you believe the rumors there was a lot of dislike for Biondi. Under Fred we have continued to upgrade our program. I know there are plans out there to upgrade our facilities even more. Does the Big East care about volleyball? I think our overall commitment is pretty strong. If the Big East ever wants to expand we just need to be their best basketball option. 

No. Volleyball is not the critical test.   But I suggest the size your school's annual athletics budget, your school's general sports facilities, whether or not your non-revenue sports are fully funded, if your non-revenue sports teams are regularly in the bottom dwellers or are highly competitive does help shape your application and your revenue streams, annual donations, ticket sales actually are factors which go along with your revenue sport's application - men's basketball.   We all know that Butler's mens' basketball, as opposed to their women's volleyball team, is why Butler is in the Big East - though how programs treat their other program is actually important - and even more so when the men's basketball has demonstrated quite a few failures over the years.

[Reinert310]

5 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

No I get it. My argument is in a vacuum and not real life. University workings are a tricky balancing act, and while I believe athletics should get a large portion of attention and funding, I can see why stakeholders might not agree. 

I hear you. I’d also love Billikens athletics to take the next step and women’s and men’s soccer are advancing in the NCAA’s. Women’s basketball makes it. We move to a power conference. I’d love all of that. But imagine the fallout if, hypothetically, we fund all these projects, have top of the line facilities across the board, but we never make that big run in the tournament, the other sports never take that next step, and despite all those tens of millions of dollars, we get passed up again when the next expansion happens. What a waste of money that would look like to students and faculty who were promised that this is what’s best for the school and how bad that would look for the president, the trustees and the execs. In an ideal world, we’d make all these investments and everything would work out perfectly and everyone would be happy, but we’re not the only one’s who realize that heavily televised sports can financially benefit a school. This isn’t new information. Only so many teams can make the Sweet 16 every year. It’s not as simple as throwing money into facilities and we’re automatically gonna be making deep tourney runs and exponentially growing our enrollment and endowment. I wish it were that easy, but it’s just not. 

[Clock_Tower]

I still remember Fr. Biondi hiring Charlie Spoonhour and stating that SLU would be a Top 50 program.   Biondi compared SLU to Georgetown, Boston College...  We are anything but a Top 50 program -- never have been.  Top 150?  Sure.

And where will we be in 20 years?  Even further behind where we are today.  Go walk the campus of Marquette, Creighton, Georgetown and Boston College.  Look at what they are doing.  We are falling behind more than just the P5 schools.

[Reinert310]

1 minute ago, Clock_Tower said:

I still remember Fr. Biondi hiring Charlie Spoonhour and stating that SLU would be a Top 50 program.   Biondi compared SLU to Georgetown, Boston College...  We are anything but a Top 50 program -- never have been.  Top 150?  Sure.

And where will we be in 20 years?  Even further behind where we are today.  Go walk the campus of Marquette, Creighton, Georgetown and Boston College.  Look at what they are doing.  We are falling behind more than just the P5 schools.

But again, that only matters to a fraction of those involved with the school. Even if it is a big fraction. I have no doubt there’s a very large percentage of those who attend/work at the University who couldn’t care less if we’re a top-50 program, a top-150 program, or have a basketball program at all. Their priorities aren’t any less important just because they’re not sports fans. So as a school, we have to find away to keep both groups of people happy somehow.

[willie]

3 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

No. Volleyball is not the critical test.   But I suggest the size your school's annual athletics budget, your school's general sports facilities, whether or not your non-revenue sports are fully funded, if your non-revenue sports teams are regularly in the bottom dwellers or are highly competitive does help shape your application and your revenue streams, annual donations, ticket sales actually are factors which go along with your revenue sport's application - men's basketball.   We all know that Butler's mens' basketball, as opposed to their women's volleyball team, is why Butler is in the Big East - though how programs treat their other program is actually important - and even more so when the men's basketball has demonstrated quite a few failures over the years.

Do you have any idea what their other programs are like. I don’t but I would guess we would be pretty competitive in most. With the exception of a couple of real clunkers I think we would stack up well. I know05 will ***** about our baseball stadium but I doubt Villanova or BC play in great facilities. We know DePaul has crappy facilities on their land locked campus. 

[Reinert310]

2 minutes ago, willie said:

Do you have any idea what their other programs are like. I don’t but I would guess we would be pretty competitive in most. With the exception of a couple of real clunkers I think we would stack up well. I know05 will ***** about our baseball stadium but I doubt Villanova or BC play in great facilities. We know DePaul has crappy facilities on their land locked campus. 

To build top of the line baseball facilities, you have to find someone, a donor/donors who want to fund said top of the line baseball facilities. Exactly ZERO donors are willing to write schools a blanks check and say, “here you go, build whatever you like.” If SLU has a donor interested in investing in a baseball facility, I’m sure it would be discussed, but things like that don’t just happen out of thin air.

[willie]

8 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

I still remember Fr. Biondi hiring Charlie Spoonhour and stating that SLU would be a Top 50 program.   Biondi compared SLU to Georgetown, Boston College...  We are anything but a Top 50 program -- never have been.  Top 150?  Sure.

And where will we be in 20 years?  Even further behind where we are today.  Go walk the campus of Marquette, Creighton, Georgetown and Boston College.  Look at what they are doing.  We are falling behind more than just the P5 schools.

First of all Father Biondi lied. If he didn’t lie he had no idea of what it would take. His statement was at a tip-off banquet. It made for a good speech. Have you walked those campuses? I have been on Marquette’s . Not impressed. 

 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Reinert310 said:

You’re absolutely right. I heard when Loyola made their Final Four run, their enrollment went up over 100% the next year. But try explaining that to the Psychology major (or the psychology professor for that matter) who has zero interest in sports. I’m not claiming these arguments are wrong, just saying there are other points of view that need to be accounted for.

I find it hard to believe Loyola's enrollment went up a 100% - that would require it to double.  I doubt SLU can handle double the number of enrollment with only a few months to prepare.

[Reinert310]

I think it was freshman class enrollment, not the entire student body. If somebody wants to fact check me, it’s all good with me, definitely could be off on the numbers.

2 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I find it hard to believe Loyola's enrollment went up a 100% - that would require it to double.  I doubt SLU can handle double the number of enrollment with only a few months to prepare.

 

2 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

 

[cheeseman]

6 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

I think it was freshman class enrollment, not the entire student body. If somebody wants to fact check me, it’s all good with me, definitely could be off on the numbers.

 

You said student enrollment so that is why I said enrollment.  I would also doubt that they could have doubled their freshmen enrollment either.  If you put something on the board you should be at least reasonably sure of its accuracy.  Now since I called you on it it is your responsibility to prove your statement not mine.

[Clock_Tower]

I applied, was accepted and nearly went to Villanova the year after Rollie Massimino won the National Championship in 1985.  The number of applications they received the next year nearly doubled, GPA and test scores for that class increased... but they had a shortage of dorms, housing and I decided otherwise.  Not sure how large that freshman class was, if even larger bc of the shortage of dorms, but their committee was, and could be, much more selective.
With increased exposure/success/ success, schools not only have more applicants but they can be more selective and possibly give less scholarships.

[Reinert310]

6 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

You said student enrollment so that is why I said enrollment.  I would also doubt that they could have doubled their freshmen enrollment either.  If you put something on the board you should be at least reasonably sure of its accuracy.  Now since I called you on it it is your responsibility to prove your statement not mine.

Lol. Why the hostility? I read about it a year ago. Wasn’t aware it would have to hold up in a court of law. Not to mention the accuracy of that statistic means very little to the overall point I was trying to make. Take a Xanax.

[Sheltiedave]

Here you go, Reinert. Always try to make sure you are standing on the right side of a branch before you start sawing. 

https://www.luc.edu/oie/institutionaldata/enrollmentstatistics/

[Reinert310]

How was I sawing at anything when I used that statistic? It was secondary to the point I was making. Something I thought I had read, in support of points other people had made. If the statistic was inaccurate, I extend my deepest apologies to all who I’ve offended.

[Cowboy]

-we are land-locked too, so for example where would a tennis or lacrosse facility be built? someone posted a school did this so I am intrigued with a lacrosse field on top of a not announced, dream parking garage where the Weber Lot is, again this is a fantasy facility

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, willie said:

Do you have any idea what their other programs are like. I don’t but I would guess we would be pretty competitive in most. With the exception of a couple of real clunkers I think we would stack up well. I know05 will ***** about our baseball stadium but I doubt Villanova or BC play in great facilities. We know DePaul has crappy facilities on their land locked campus. 

BC facility blows SLU out of the water. Villanova might be the worst in D1. Its worse than what SLU’s was 20 years ago. All I fuoking want are Stadium gotdamn seats...and preferably on site clubhouses.

[The House That Rick Built]

1 minute ago, Cowboy said:

-we are land-locked too, so for example where would a tennis or lacrosse facility be built? someone posted a school did this so I am intrigued with a lacrosse field on top of a not announced, dream parking garage where the Weber Lot is, again this is a fantasy facility

@billikenfan05 talked about putting a lacrosse surface on top of the Olive/Compton garage, or we at least dreamed about what that would look like on the podcast a while back. I feel like the land locked nature of the sports complex will definitely make expansion for baseball brutal, if not impossible, but if there's a will there's a way. No idea what the actual dimensions would have to look like but, as has been mentioned already, without money this is a totally moot point.

[billikenfan05]

3 minutes ago, The House That Rick Built said:

@billikenfan05 talked about putting a lacrosse surface on top of the Olive/Compton garage, or we at least dreamed about what that would look like on the podcast a while back. I feel like the land locked nature of the sports complex will definitely make expansion for baseball brutal, if not impossible, but if there's a will there's a way. No idea what the actual dimensions would have to look like but, as has been mentioned already, without money this is a totally moot point.

Fred Weber parking garage is an intriguing idea but imagine living on the east end of Grand Forest. Holy sh!t that would be a sucky view 

[The House That Rick Built]

Just now, billikenfan05 said:

Fred Weber parking garage is an intriguing idea but imagine living on the east end of Grand Forest. Holy that would be a sucky view 

I would counter this by saying I feel like watching a sporting event from the top of a parking garage on campus would be a blast, especially with downtown somewhere in the background depending on how it’s all laid out and again I have no idea how any of this would work or look. Also, anyone who has a problem with the views from their apartment/residence can bite it, we are talking about more important things here.