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19 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I think we're all saying the same thing or close to the same thing.  My point was that we are at their level (one year level) beginning next year.  The next challenge is to sustain that level.  I don't think it is reasonable to expect being in the top 10 every year like Gonzaga.  Next year, we are a top 40 team, like Xavier.  We won't have their level of success until we do it for about 8-10 years straight.  But for now, we are on par with them.

I want to push back on this a little more.  There's literally dozens of smaller programs who have had similar success to SLU over the last two years.  So what makes us "on par" with Xavier?  

When people compare one program to another, they're really talking about reputation.  You don't even enter into the reputation discussion until you've strung together a lot of winning seasons, like you say, for 8-10 years.  Right now, Wichita State, Dayton and arguably Murray State have a stronger national reputation than SLU and that's just in the Midwest.

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1 minute ago, 3star_recruit said:

I want to push back on this a little more.  There's literally dozens of smaller programs who have had similar success to SLU over the last two years.  So what makes us "on par" with Xavier?  

When people compare one program to another, they're really talking about reputation.  You don't even enter into the reputation discussion until you've strung together a lot of winning seasons, like you say, for 8-10 years.  Right now, Wichita State Dayton and arguably Murray State have a stronger national reputation than SLU and that's just in the Midwest.

I think what posters are referring to here is the pipeline of talent across all classes and expected from future classes. When SLU has had success in the past, they tended to ride one or two strong classes and then filled things out with role players. Rarely, has SLU had depth on the bench or a pipeline to replace the current stars. For the first time ever, Ford appears to have built a program that can be sustained due to the consistent high-level recruiting across all classes. This is the Gonzaga/Villanova/Xavier model that allows them to maintain their high level. 

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5 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I want to push back on this a little more.  There's literally dozens of smaller programs who have had similar success to SLU over the last two years.  So what makes us "on par" with Xavier?  

When people compare one program to another, they're really talking about reputation.  You don't even enter into the reputation discussion until you've strung together a lot of winning seasons, like you say, for 8-10 years.  Right now, Wichita State Dayton and arguably Murray State have a stronger national reputation than SLU and that's just in the Midwest.

Xavier has had institutional support from their Presidents and have had first class Athletic Directors for years.   SLU has not.   End of story.

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7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I want to push back on this a little more.  There's literally dozens of smaller programs who have had similar success to SLU over the last two years.  So what makes us "on par" with Xavier?  

When people compare one program to another, they're really talking about reputation.  You don't even enter into the reputation discussion until you've strung together a lot of winning seasons, like you say, for 8-10 years.  Right now, Wichita State Dayton and arguably Murray State have a stronger national reputation than SLU and that's just in the Midwest.

I agree.  Not sure what else to say about it.  You are interpreting my comments as saying that we are just as good of a program as Xavier, but I wasn't saying that.  Starting next year, I believe we will be a team that, for 2020/21 only, is at the same level as Xavier's 2020/21 team.  We won't be at the same level as a program until we do that for a much longer period of time and raise our reputation up as you say.

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2 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Xavier has had institutional support from their Presidents and have had first class Athletic Directors for years.   SLU has not.   End of story.

Not "end of story":  SLU has Dr. Chaifetz now; he's not president or athletic director, but he does influence the program significantly.

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4 minutes ago, davidnark said:

I think what posters are referring to here is the pipeline of talent across all classes and expected from future classes. When SLU has had success in the past, they tended to ride one or two strong classes and then filled things out with role players. Rarely, has SLU had depth on the bench or a pipeline to replace the current stars. For the first time ever, Ford appears to have built a program that can be sustained due to the consistent high-level recruiting across all classes. This is the Gonzaga/Villanova/Xavier model that allows them to maintain their high level. 

What I'm trying to understand is how do we skip right to talk of the Gonzaga/Villanova/Xavier level, when Dayton has proven to be the better program in our own conference?  

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Just now, cgeldmacher said:

I agree.  Not sure what else to say about it.  You are interpreting my comments as saying that we are just as good of a program as Xavier, but I wasn't saying that.  Starting next year, I believe we will be a team that, for 2020/21 only, is at the same level as Xavier's 2020/21 team.  We won't be at the same level as a program until we do that for a much longer period of time and raise our reputation up as you say.

Haha, so this is the getting lost in translation I was referring to with my post since I truly think everyone is saying the same thing.

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13 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

What I'm trying to understand is how do we skip right to talk of the Gonzaga/Villanova/Xavier level, when Dayton has proven to be the better program in our own conference?  

Because the goal is to be in the top-tier of basketball only schools. Not the second (or whatever tier Dayton is in)

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18 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

The key to Coach Majerus chaining multiple classes was maintaining multiple pipelines.  The Australian and Chicago pipelines kept the cupboard full.  When Majerus got sick, he understandably wasn't as active in recruiting and the cupboard got extremely bare.  

Coach Ford and company have brought in roughly as much talent via one AAU team as the old Australian and Chicago pipelines combined.  They've managed to supplement that local success with one-offs from a number of states.  I think the only thing that's stopping them from turning a one-off like New York or Chicago to a bonafide pipeline is a Sweet 16 run in the tournament.  They've put the program in the best possible position to make that run happen.  That's really all you can ask.

I'm hoping we tap into a European pipeline (Andre Lorentsson, Marten Linssen, Ingvi Gudmundsson) in addition to our local/BBE pipeline (Goodwin, Thatch, Collins, Hargrove, Gordon, Okoro, Perkins). I'm not opposed to opening other pipelines as long as we continue to make local Saint Louis recruiting a priority.

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I do not want to rain on this party BUT, the school itself is in a very difficult situation at this time, and everything you all are talking about depends entirely upon the school reopening with students on campus. Otherwise things may well become a lot dimmer than  they were this last season.

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46 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Agreed. Speaking of Xavier, there were some fun games against them during the Majerus era with some really good players in those games.

I really miss playing Xavier and l loved it when SLU finally beat them.  So many times in the MCC conference in the Rich Grawer coaching years SLU was beaten by Xavier and finally it happened in the A10.

One of the reasons I liked the A10 was the opportunity to play Xavier.

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5 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I do not want to rain on this party BUT, the school itself is in a very difficult situation at this time, and everything you all are talking about depends entirely upon the school reopening with students on campus. Otherwise things may well become a lot dimmer than  they were this last season.

Do you have a point? Can't this same thing be said about every thread? 

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2 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Not "end of story":  SLU has Dr. Chaifetz now; he's not president or athletic director, but he does influence the program significantly.

And your point is?   That Dr. Chaifetz will step in and make sure we:

1.  Don't mess up our chance to join the Big East by offending other school Presidents like Fr. Biondi did?

2.  Don't hire guys like Jim Crews and then sign them to standard/5 year contracts setting our program back?  Hire guys like Soderberg to save money?

Pete Gillen who had success and left for Providence and Virginia, Skip Prosser who had success and left for Wake Forest, Thad Matt who had success  and left for Ohio State, Sean Miller who had succes and left for Arizona, Chris Mack who had success and left for Louisville - and now the new guy Travis Steele  who left mostly on good terms for better programs vs.  Rich Grawer who left after a 2 win season, half the guys quitting on him and who was bitter and refused to have anything to do with Fr. Biondi, Spoonhour who had great success but then who was nickled and dimed over cell phone reimbursements and ice cream bills before giving up and quiting - early "retirment" before soon resurfacing at UNLV.   Romar who here for only 3 years, who landed very few guys and who bolted before things crashed here for his alma mater/West Coast.  Ironic we are again talking about Nick Kern.   Soderberg who was fired and couldn't get us to the NCAA Tournament.   RM who rebuilt our program, who returned us to glory despite Sitaution set backs and then publicly feuding with Fr. Biondi and who likely was not going to return had he not died.  Jim Crews who should never had been hired but eventually was fired.   And now Travis Ford.   Sure -- I see alot of comparision with Xavier. 

3.   Don't wait for years before building an on-campus facility while playing/practicing in West Pine Gym.

4.  Supervise the SLU Title IX office twice within a decade while other programs around the country faced far greater complaints and fared far better.

5.  Look the other way while our soccer program languished for years before thinking the re-installation of natural grass and upgrades to the concession stand will elevate us to our former glory?

6.    Not keeping up with the competition for faclities for baseball, softball, volleyball, etc?   Why doies SLU not have a indoor/outdoor tennis facilities, swim team facilties...  

7.   Not making better progress on fully funding non-revenue sports.

I am not sure we have improved our sports program much as all since the Big East chose Creighton over us.

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

And your point is?   That Dr. Chaifetz will step in and make sure we:

1.  Don't mess up our chance to join the Big East by offending other school Presidents like Fr. Biondi did?

2.  Don't hire guys like Jim Crews and then sign them to standard/5 year contracts setting our program back?  Hire guys like Soderberg to save money?

Pete Gillen who had success and left for Providence and Virginia, Skip Prosser who had success and left for Wake Forest, Thad Matt who had success  and left for Ohio State, Sean Miller who had succes and left for Arizona, Chris Mack who had success and left for Louisville - and now the new guy Travis Steele  who left mostly on good terms for better programs vs.  Rich Grawer who left after a 2 win season, half the guys quitting on him and who was bitter and refused to have anything to do with Fr. Biondi, Spoonhour who had great success but then who was nickled and dimed over cell phone reimbursements and ice cream bills before giving up and quiting - early "retirment" before soon resurfacing at UNLV.   Romar who here for only 3 years, who landed very few guys and who bolted before things crashed here for his alma mater/West Coast.  Ironic we are again talking about Nick Kern.   Soderberg who was fired and couldn't get us to the NCAA Tournament.   RM who rebuilt our program, who returned us to glory despite Sitaution set backs and then publicly feuding with Fr. Biondi and who likely was not going to return had he not died.  Jim Crews who should never had been hired but eventually was fired.   And now Travis Ford.   Sure -- I see alot of comparision with Xavier. 

3.   Don't wait for years before building an on-campus facility while playing/practicing in West Pine Gym.

4.  Supervise the SLU Title IX office twice within a decade while other programs around the country faced far greater complaints and fared far better.

5.  Look the other way while our soccer program languished for years before thinking the re-installation of natural grass and upgrades to the concession stand will elevate us to our former glory?

6.    Not keeping up with the competition for faclities for baseball, softball, volleyball, etc?   Why doies SLU not have a indoor/outdoor tennis facilities, swim team facilties...  

7.   Not making better progress on fully funding non-revenue sports.

I am not sure we have improved our sports program much as all since the Big East chose Creighton over us.

your answer to all of the above begins witih "well our BoT......."

from my viewpoint of the list of trustees, it is pretty much Doc vs everyone.   end of that.  

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12 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

your answer to all of the above begins witih "well our BoT......."

from my viewpoint of the list of trustees, it is pretty much Doc vs everyone.   end of that.  

I think it’s all matter of perspective, as a die hard  Bills fan, would I love to see us have top-tier facilities in every sport and move to a power conference? Of course. But we have to keep in mind that there is, in all likelihood, a large portion of trustees, donors, faculty and students, who couldn’t care less about SLU athletics. So those in charge have a delicate balancing act of trying to keep everyone happy. 

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36 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

I think it’s all matter of perspective, as a die hard  Bills fan, would I love to see us have top-tier facilities in every sport and move to a power conference? Of course. But we have to keep in mind that there is, in all likelihood, a large portion of trustees, donors, faculty and students, who couldn’t care less about SLU athletics. So those in charge have a delicate balancing act of trying to keep everyone happy. 

Reinert.  This isn't a situation of how much do we spend on the volleyball team vs. the school newspaper.   I get the delicate balance you speak of.  I get the constraints of a private school in these times.  Instead, this is a case of does SLU make a true commitment to D1 athletics or not?  If you say no, I respect that opinion.   Instead, I suggest that SLU acts like it wants to be relevant in D1 athletics but its actions point in a different direction.  And I get the inability of SLU to compete with the large, public SEC schools for facilities, etc. but SLU is falling further behind Marquette, Creighton, Boston College, Georgetown, etc.  The Big East looks at more than the men's basketball team record/team and Chaveitz Arena.

Again, I ask.   Are we more attractive to the Big East now than we were back when they said No to us?

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1 hour ago, Reinert310 said:

I think it’s all matter of perspective, as a die hard  Bills fan, would I love to see us have top-tier facilities in every sport and move to a power conference? Of course. But we have to keep in mind that there is, in all likelihood, a large portion of trustees, donors, faculty and students, who couldn’t care less about SLU athletics. So those in charge have a delicate balancing act of trying to keep everyone happy. 

I’d argue that increasing the athletic profile of SLU, to the point where we are more attractive to a higher conference, would make many happy. Athletic success can drive increases in enrollment, as has happened at schools such as Butler. If SLU wants to be a nationally recognized name, which it currently is not, athletics are an integral part of that. SLU might not pay for a second of advertising time on televisions outside the metro area, but sports serve as a fantastic advertisement. 

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30 minutes ago, billikentim said:

Okoro is official 

 

23 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Nice!

 

22 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

I love the Billikens team chemistry.

There's that BBE connection. Okoro played on the top team twice, first year with Thatch, second year with Hargrove and Collins. He was great in both of those AAU seasons.

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33 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Reinert.  This isn't a situation of how much do we spend on the volleyball team vs. the school newspaper.   I get the delicate balance you speak of.  I get the constraints of a private school in these times.  Instead, this is a case of does SLU make a true commitment to D1 athletics or not?  If you say no, I respect that opinion.   Instead, I suggest that SLU acts like it wants to be relevant in D1 athletics but its actions point in a different direction.  And I get the inability of SLU to compete with the large, public SEC schools for facilities, etc. but SLU is falling further behind Marquette, Creighton, Boston College, Georgetown, etc.  The Big East looks at more than the men's basketball team record/team and Chaveitz Arena.

Again, I ask.   Are we more attractive to the Big East now than we were back when they said No to us?

 

16 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

I’d argue that increasing the athletic profile of SLU, to the point where we are more attractive to a higher conference, would make many happy. Athletic success can drive increases in enrollment, as has happened at schools such as Butler. If SLU wants to be a nationally recognized name, which it currently is not, athletics are an integral part of that. SLU might not pay for a second of advertising time on televisions outside the metro area, but sports serve as a fantastic advertisement. 

I agree with both of you. But I’m sure there are a lot of students and faculty who not only don’t care about athletics, but resent the fact that millions of dollars are going to a new basketball arena or a new soccer field. And those perspectives deserve the same amount of attention whether you or I or the trustees agree with them. And when it comes to fundraising, if you ask Dr. C or any other major donor $10 million dollars for an indoor tennis facility, it means you’re probably not gonna come back next year and ask for 5 million dollars for a new English department building. It’s really easy for us to say, being higher profile athletically will help us grow as a university, but while you’re doing that, you’ve got students and faculty picketing around the clock tower because all those funds went to athletics instead of academics. You can’t fix everything all at once. I’d be willing to bet 20 years from now, the situation will look a lot different than it does now. But nobody has a magic wand to upgrade everything by November 1st, 2020. The Big East isn’t going to be expanding anytime soon anyway. 

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46 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

I’d argue that increasing the athletic profile of SLU, to the point where we are more attractive to a higher conference, would make many happy. Athletic success can drive increases in enrollment, as has happened at schools such as Butler. If SLU wants to be a nationally recognized name, which it currently is not, athletics are an integral part of that. SLU might not pay for a second of advertising time on televisions outside the metro area, but sports serve as a fantastic advertisement. 

This. A million times. There is no greater marketing tool for a university than a successful athletic program.

Strongly considered applying to St. John's University solely because I loved watching their 1999 Elite 8 team with Ron Artest, Lavor Postell,  Eric Barkley, and Jarvis at the helm. Thought it would have been pretty cool rooting them on at MSG every year. Knew nothing else about the school other than it was in Queens. Perhaps not the best example since I didn't end up going there but If not for their basketball team it would not have even been a consideration.

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Just now, Slu let the dogs out? said:

This. A million times. There is no greater marketing tool for a university than a successful athletic program.

Strongly considered applying to St. John's University solely because I loved watching their 1999 Elite 8 team with Ron Artest, Lavor Postell,  Eric Barkley, and Jarvis at the helm. Knew nothing else about the school other than it was in Queens. Perhaps not the best example since I didn't end up going there but If not for their basketball team it would not have even been a consideration.

There are stats out there showing the incredible boost in applications for schools such as Xavier and Gonzaga following their first Sweet 16 trip.

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