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27 minutes ago, slu72 said:

I never understood why Rickma let him go, although, it could have been his decision to leave. 

I always thought the story was the SLU/Rickma wanted to develop Relphorde was a power forward and he thought of himself as a wing.  Even if that is not true, I'd imagine in the was his decision to leave.  Guys leave all the time after coaching changes and given the stark difference between Soide (who recruited him) and Majerus, I can't blame Marcus for transferring.

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41 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

I always thought the story was the SLU/Rickma wanted to develop Relphorde was a power forward and he thought of himself as a wing.  Even if that is not true, I'd imagine in the was his decision to leave.  Guys leave all the time after coaching changes and given the stark difference between Soide (who recruited him) and Majerus, I can't blame Marcus for transferring.

Yep. Relphorde still ended up defending the power forward position at Colorado but was allowed more ball-handling and playmaking responsibility. That was a much better fit since Relphorde was a point forward in high school.

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8 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Yep. Relphorde still ended up defending the power forward position at Colorado but was allowed more ball-handling and playmaking responsibility. That was a much better fit since Relphorde was a point forward in high school.

Makes sense. And I do recall he and Rickma had a difference of opinion on his position. Too bad. He did well at Colorado. 

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On 6/11/2020 at 12:42 PM, Pistol said:

That's a lot of filler for a guy who just wanted to know about Hankton.

His injuries were the persistent and nagging but not shut-down level, as I understood it. He really added to his frame between freshman and sophomore year. He can stretch it with his shooting. He's a smart player who moves well and has a knack for spacing and timing but we saw him more frequently as a freshman and he got outbodied a lot - e.g. he'd be right where he needed to be for a rebound and often not come up with it.

Bottom line is he's kind of a mystery to us because we didn't get much of a chance to see him. A year off will/would (depending on potential waiver) probably do him well. I could see being a solid contributing role player at ChattanooThaga if he gets healthy and is well suited for the system there. Hope it works out for you guys, @GoMocs.

Go Mocs

Thank you for your questions.  Always appreciate fans of other programs coming on our Board who are respectful and who come on for good intentions.   We all share the same thing -- love of college basketball.  Good luck to your team and hope we have a normal season with butts in the seats and not empty arenas.

Agree with Pistol. Don't believe ANY us really know very much about Hankton.   Now, we know he was a good teammate and we heard no hint of any academic or discipline issues.  Like most Freshman, he came in with high promise and expectations but a skinny frame.   It is obvious that he gained weight and strength the summer after his Freshman year and he had a few games where we thought - hey this guy can play - I now see why he was recruited.  Then, opportunities seemed far and few between and when someone on this Board mentioned this, someone else would say that they heard he injured his ankle, back, shoulder...  I honestly don't know much more about Mr Hankton.   Some guys are brittle and injury prone.   Other guys are unlucky.   Some guys can play through injury better than others.   Who knows?  Not saying he did not get injured over the past 2 years but were the injuries, or all of them, the real reason he did not play? the real reason his absences of play were as long as they were? Don't know. All guys play injured to some degree. I am not aware of any broken bones or surgeries. I am not aware of his needing a year to heal his body physically. Wil another year of not-playing help him mature, improve his skills and allow him to gain weight and strength?  Sure.  Did Coach Ford believe he needed to be 100% to be a role player and that he had nothing to offer the team if not 100%?  Not sure. I suspect that Coach Ford had little confidence in him (even at 100%) as a Freshman because we played only 6 healthy guys - even when exhausted.  Also feel that Coach Ford believed he had other/better options as a Sophomore even when 100%.  With all this said, Hankton appears to be a great kid, it did not work out for him here but I wish him all the best in the future at Chattanooga.  Please give us updates from time to time.

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36 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Go Mocs

Thank you for your questions.  Always appreciate fans of other programs coming on our Board who are respectful and who come on for good intentions.   We all share the same thing -- love of college basketball.  Good luck to your team and hope we have a normal season with butts in the seats and not empty arenas.

Agree with Pistol. Don't believe ANY us really know very much about Hankton.   Now, we know he was a good teammate and we heard no hint of any academic or discipline issues.  Like most Freshman, he came in with high promise and expectations but a skinny frame.   It is obvious that he gained weight and strength the summer after his Freshman year and he had a few games where we thought - hey this guy can play - I now see why he was recruited.  Then, opportunities seemed far and few between and when someone on this Board mentioned this, someone else would say that they heard he injured his ankle, back, shoulder...  I honestly don't know much more about Mr Hankton.   Some guys are brittle and injury prone.   Other guys are unlucky.   Some guys can play through injury better than others.   Who knows?  Not saying he did not get injured over the past 2 years but were the injuries, or all of them, the real reason he did not play? the real reason his absences of play were as long as they were? Don't know. All guys play injured to some degree. I am not aware of any broken bones or surgeries. I am not aware of his needing a year to heal his body physically. Wil another year of not-playing help him mature, improve his skills and allow him to gain weight and strength?  Sure.  Did Coach Ford believe he needed to be 100% to be a role player and that he had nothing to offer the team if not 100%?  Not sure. I suspect that Coach Ford had little confidence in him (even at 100%) as a Freshman because we played only 6 healthy guys - even when exhausted.  Also feel that Coach Ford believed he had other/better options as a Sophomore even when 100%.  With all this said, Hankton appears to be a great kid, it did not work out for him here but I wish him all the best in the future at Chattanooga.  Please give us updates from time to time.

I agree with what you say.  My two cents added, in KC's 65 minutes he logged this past season, in far too many of them he was in the post.  He looked uncomfortable in the pivot, both offensively and defensively.  But of course he never was in the game long enough to get comfortable.  I think he is much better suited on the outside, either as a stretch 4 or a 3.  His SLU career 23% from the arc is not good, but he only took 31 combined shots in two years, a very small sample size. 

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@RUBillsFan---- I did not think I moved any goal posts.  Frankly, you did by taking two separate and distinct responses and putting them together.  My first response remains my true thought ---- very very few Billiken transfers upgrade where ever they go.  Sure, they MIGHT contribute ala Reynolds, Carter or Yarbrough (who I indeed forgot) but being a so-so contributor is still a so-so contributor.  After that, three-star injected stuff that I then responded to.  It was not a hijack,it was a topic move on.  I did add guys technically outside [dead]'s responsibility, but they transferred in about the same timeframe and their post-Billikenresults don't help much either.

 

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On 6/12/2020 at 10:32 AM, Taj79 said:

Bottom line:  Billikens that transfer don't do particularly well elsewhere... Once again, if the postives are Reynolds, Bishop, Carter and Glaze, I woudl counter that Pepperdine, Norfolk State, Valpo and Grand Canyon are at levels that might have been better suited to their "talent level" all along.

 

On 6/13/2020 at 9:59 PM, Taj79 said:

@RUBillsFan---- My first response remains my true thought ---- very very few Billiken transfers upgrade where ever they go.  Sure, they MIGHT contribute ala Reynolds, Carter or Yarbrough (who I indeed forgot) but being a so-so contributor is still a so-so contributor.  

 

Again, Reynolds played his senior season at Oklahoma as their sixth man averaging 20+ minutes over the season and two NCAA tournament games (in other words it was "suited to his talent level"). That's to say, he upgraded to a better team in a P5 conference and made a meaningful contribution to it. Not just a "so-so contributor" to Pacific (not Pepperdine). 

That's not to say your theory isn't true. But if "Billikens that transfer don't do particularly well elsewhere", then Reynolds is an exception to that rule.

If your definition of "doing particularly well elsewhere" is exclusively becoming a stats leader at a major program and going on multiple multi-game tournament runs, then yeah, I suppose Reynolds doesn't fit in that category. 

 

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I’ll give you Reynolds for his one year.  I didn’t see him play so maybe he became better than his one-trick pony game of Drive and pray for the foul.

There will be minor exceptions to my rule of thumb (maybe Yarbrough too).  But for the most part, the preponderance of evidence supports my statement more than not, no?  He went to OU as a grad transfer and “got religion” I guess.  I frankly expected more given his pedigree coming out of high school.  I’ll concede then.  
 

Back to Hankton, only time will tell.  I’m not banking on it although I don’t know Chattanooga’s style so who knows about the fit.  I wish both he and Diarra do well.

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Really, who cares? They didn’t finish as Billikens. That said some of our posters continue to reap some praise on Yarborough, Reynolds, Bishop,  and Bartley. Those 4 plus Crawford, Robey, Obeko, and Hines, we’re  all Crews recruits and played together for 1-2 years when we totally sucked. Two PIG teams that finished well under .500. If they went to shine somewhere else, why did we suffer through two years of the worst Billiken BB I’ve ever witnessed? A lot of those games were painful to watch. And let’s not forget we had the kid from Nova, whose name escapes me, who was pretty good and still we sucked for two years. Are we to conclude Jimmy the Dead could bring in some talent but couldn’t coach them to a CYO championship?  Thank God Tatum chose Duke , or else we still might be stuck with Crews,  and Travis may have ended up at VCU, Duquesne, or back at UMass and be hated by SLU fans. Happy that the above players found some success where they ended up, but for some reason just couldn’t put it all together here. The common denominator; Jim Crews the worst HC in SLU history. 

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27 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Really, who cares? They didn’t finish as Billikens. That said some of our posters continue to reap some praise on Yarborough, Reynolds, Bishop,  and Bartley. Those 4 plus Crawford, Robey, Obeko, and Hines, we’re  all Crews recruits and played together for 1-2 years when we totally sucked. Two PIG teams that finished well under .500. If they went to shine somewhere else, why did we suffer through two years of the worst Billiken BB I’ve ever witnessed? A lot of those games were painful to watch. And let’s not forget we had the kid from Nova, whose name escapes me, who was pretty good and still we sucked for two years. Are we to conclude Jimmy the Dead could bring in some talent but couldn’t coach them to a CYO championship?  Thank God Tatum chose Duke , or else we still might be stuck with Crews,  and Travis may have ended up at VCU, Duquesne, or back at UMass and be hated by SLU fans. Happy that the above players found some success where they ended up, but for some reason just couldn’t put it all together here. The common denominator; Jim Crews the worst HC in SLU history. 

Ash Yacoubou.

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In my mind there are three types of transfers that can leave your program:

1) Guys that weren't getting much playing time, were told by the coach that playing time wouldn't increase or were pushed out by the coach and quite frankly the school is most likely going to be able to find a replacement player that is better. The list is long of these type at SLU and Hankton probably fits here.

2) Guys that were good enough to play at this level and could be projected as a significant contributor in the future. Don't even have to be a starter. Often these guys leave because it just isn't a fit and maybe they don't like the coach or vice versa or there was a coaching change. You'd prefer not to lose these guys but it's not devastating when it happens. Relephorde, Carter, Yarborough, Reynolds probably fit here.

3) Really good players that are recruited away or are unhappy for some reason, or have academic issues. Thankfully SLU hasn't had many if any of these in the past 15 years but we've definitely had academic casualties in the past that end up popping up and doing well elsewhere. I'm too young to remember why he left, but Ricky Frazier in the early 80s was a good example of this class. 

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1 hour ago, kshoe said:

In my mind there are three types of transfers that can leave your program:

1) Guys that weren't getting much playing time, were told by the coach that playing time wouldn't increase or were pushed out by the coach and quite frankly the school is most likely going to be able to find a replacement player that is better. The list is long of these type at SLU and Hankton probably fits here.

2) Guys that were good enough to play at this level and could be projected as a significant contributor in the future. Don't even have to be a starter. Often these guys leave because it just isn't a fit and maybe they don't like the coach or vice versa or there was a coaching change. You'd prefer not to lose these guys but it's not devastating when it happens. Relephorde, Carter, Yarborough, Reynolds probably fit here.

3) Really good players that are recruited away or are unhappy for some reason, or have academic issues. Thankfully SLU hasn't had many if any of these in the past 15 years but we've definitely had academic casualties in the past that end up popping up and doing well elsewhere. I'm too young to remember why he left, but Ricky Frazier in the early 80s was a good example of this class. 

He was flunking out  and would not have been eligible to play here but somehow Stormin Norman got him in to MU and eligible to play a year later.  Sounds like the kid that Self got in that no other schools could have - Mclaran?

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14 hours ago, slu72 said:

Really, who cares? They didn’t finish as Billikens. That said some of our posters continue to reap some praise on Yarborough, Reynolds, Bishop,  and Bartley. Those 4 plus Crawford, Robey, Obeko, and Hines, we’re  all Crews recruits and played together for 1-2 years when we totally sucked. Two PIG teams that finished well under .500. If they went to shine somewhere else, why did we suffer through two years of the worst Billiken BB I’ve ever witnessed? A lot of those games were painful to watch. And let’s not forget we had the kid from Nova, whose name escapes me, who was pretty good and still we sucked for two years. Are we to conclude Jimmy the Dead could bring in some talent but couldn’t coach them to a CYO championship?  Thank God Tatum chose Duke , or else we still might be stuck with Crews,  and Travis may have ended up at VCU, Duquesne, or back at UMass and be hated by SLU fans. Happy that the above players found some success where they ended up, but for some reason just couldn’t put it all together here. The common denominator; Jim Crews the worst HC in SLU history. 

The short answer is yes.  The slightly longer answer is you have to recruit to your coaching style.  If you want a bunch of guys with high basketball IQs who shoot the ball very well, then you need to recruit those players.  That's what Crews did when he had his most success at Evansville and Bob McKillop has proven that model can still work at the mid-major level.  Crews vastly overestimated his ability to impose textbook structure on players who preferred to play helter-skelter.

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3 hours ago, kshoe said:

In my mind there are three types of transfers that can leave your program:

1) Guys that weren't getting much playing time, were told by the coach that playing time wouldn't increase or were pushed out by the coach and quite frankly the school is most likely going to be able to find a replacement player that is better. The list is long of these type at SLU and Hankton probably fits here.

2) Guys that were good enough to play at this level and could be projected as a significant contributor in the future. Don't even have to be a starter. Often these guys leave because it just isn't a fit and maybe they don't like the coach or vice versa or there was a coaching change. You'd prefer not to lose these guys but it's not devastating when it happens. Relephorde, Carter, Yarborough, Reynolds probably fit here.

3) Really good players that are recruited away or are unhappy for some reason, or have academic issues. Thankfully SLU hasn't had many if any of these in the past 15 years but we've definitely had academic casualties in the past that end up popping up and doing well elsewhere. I'm too young to remember why he left, but Ricky Frazier in the early 80s was a good example of this class. 

This is a solid way to look at it.  I think Carteare Gordon and WIllie Reed fit the bill for #3 even if they didn't wind up at another D1 school.

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7 hours ago, kshoe said:

In my mind there are three types of transfers that can leave your program:

1) Guys that weren't getting much playing time, were told by the coach that playing time wouldn't increase or were pushed out by the coach and quite frankly the school is most likely going to be able to find a replacement player that is better. The list is long of these type at SLU and Hankton probably fits here.

2) Guys that were good enough to play at this level and could be projected as a significant contributor in the future. Don't even have to be a starter. Often these guys leave because it just isn't a fit and maybe they don't like the coach or vice versa or there was a coaching change. You'd prefer not to lose these guys but it's not devastating when it happens. Relephorde, Carter, Yarborough, Reynolds probably fit here.

3) Really good players that are recruited away or are unhappy for some reason, or have academic issues. Thankfully SLU hasn't had many if any of these in the past 15 years but we've definitely had academic casualties in the past that end up popping up and doing well elsewhere. I'm too young to remember why he left, but Ricky Frazier in the early 80s was a good example of this class. 

Where would Jalen Johnson fit in?  Would you consider adding a category?

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7 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

The short answer is yes.  The slightly longer answer is you have to recruit to your coaching style.  If you want a bunch of guys with high basketball IQs who shoot the ball very well, then you need to recruit those players.  That's what Crews did when he had his most success at Evansville and Bob McKillop has proven that model can still work at the mid-major level.  Crews vastly overestimated his ability to impose textbook structure on players who preferred to play helter-skelter.

Milik Yarbrough preferred to play helter-skelter? Surely you're joking!

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10 hours ago, kshoe said:

In my mind there are three types of transfers that can leave your program:

1) Guys that weren't getting much playing time, were told by the coach that playing time wouldn't increase or were pushed out by the coach and quite frankly the school is most likely going to be able to find a replacement player that is better. The list is long of these type at SLU and Hankton probably fits here.

2) Guys that were good enough to play at this level and could be projected as a significant contributor in the future. Don't even have to be a starter. Often these guys leave because it just isn't a fit and maybe they don't like the coach or vice versa or there was a coaching change. You'd prefer not to lose these guys but it's not devastating when it happens. Relephorde, Carter, Yarborough, Reynolds probably fit here.

3) Really good players that are recruited away or are unhappy for some reason, or have academic issues. Thankfully SLU hasn't had many if any of these in the past 15 years but we've definitely had academic casualties in the past that end up popping up and doing well elsewhere. I'm too young to remember why he left, but Ricky Frazier in the early 80s was a good example of this class. 

Yes but no. Yes, alot of players leave when the new coach arrives. And yes, we had alot of coaches over a shorter period of time.  But unlike Xavier, VCU and other successful programs, our coaches became angry and quit or were fired  - and new styles, staffs and philosophies came in.  Of course there was alot of turnover under these circumstances. And while some did OK or even good at their new schools - not one player did I ever wish we still had. We let guys go to make room for Javon Bess, Foreman, Rashad Anthony and then Goodwin, French, Henriquez and Graves. 

I am glad we started fresh and gave the ball to Goodwin instead of Carter and Reynolds,  glad we had Foreman and French instead of Relephorde, Bess instead of Malik, Henriquez and Graves  were set to be an upgrade over Bartley.  We could not have signed all the new guys while retaining all the former guys.

Players I wish we never lost?  Yes, our baseball Cardinals traded away Steve Carlton who routinely beat us, won MVPs and World Series while we endured the 1970s  Cardinals. We gave away Keith Hernandez who beat us and won World Series for the Mets. We traded away Andy Van Slyke bc he could not play everyday- except on very good Pirates teams.  No similar Billiken players come to mind. 

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13 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes but no. Yes, alot of players leave when the new coach arrives. And yes, we had alot of coaches over a shorter period of time.  But unlike Xavier, VCU and other successful programs, our coaches became angry and quit or were fired  - and new styles, staffs and philosophies came in.  Of course there was alot of turnover under these circumstances. And while some did OK or even good at their new schools - not one player did I ever wish we still had. We let guys go to make room for Javon Bess, Foreman, Rashad Anthony and then Goodwin, French, Henriquez and Graves. 

I am glad we started fresh and gave the ball to Goodwin instead of Carter and Reynolds,  glad we had Foreman and French instead of Relephorde, Bess instead of Malik, Henriquez and Graves  were set to be an upgrade over Bartley.  We could not have signed all the new guys while retaining all the former guys.

Players I wish we never lost?  Yes, our baseball Cardinals traded away Steve Carlton who routinely beat us, won MVPs and World Series while we endured the 1970s  Cardinals. We gave away Keith Hernandez who beat us and won World Series for the Mets. We traded away Andy Van Slyke bc he could not play everyday- except on very good Pirates teams.  No similar Billiken players come to mind. 

We didn't get Foreman and French instead of Relephorde. I'm a big RM fan but he was trying to make Marcus something he wasn't due to not having many choices. Marcus went to Colorado and averaged 11/4/2 in 27 mpg while shooting 37% from the 3 playing the wing. No question if used properly he would have been more than a role player at SLU

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