Hankton Gone

[billsfan03]

On 3/28/2020 at 6:41 PM, Clock_Tower said:

Houston signed with a prep school.

Russell is going to SEMO

[billsfan03]

KC going to Chattanooga.

[Box and Won]

44 minutes ago, billsfan03 said:

Russell is going to SEMO

They're putting a nice class together.

[johnbj14]

1 hour ago, billsfan03 said:

Russell is going to SEMO

I thought he decommitted?

[Littlebill]

1 hour ago, billsfan03 said:

Russell is going to SEMO

I haven’t seen that anywhere, where did you see it?

[GoMocs]

Hello from Moc Nation. 

I am reading yall's thoughts on KC and it seems like he is a good kid. I am led to believe he will redshirt a year and get healthy. We really don't need him this coming season as much as the following season.

I would like to ask, what are the injuries that held him back at SLU?

 

Thanks.

I am somewhat familiar with STL. I lived there in 1987-88, went to alot of Cardinal games and spent quite a few late nights in the basement at Blueberry Hill in U City. Still not sure about that STL style pizza though.

Edited June 10, 2020 by GoMocs
spelling

[VeniceMenace]

Can't remember all his injuries, barely played this season.

Freshman year I was impressed. Had an ability to come off the bench, get active, make things happen...especially for being only a freshman. Team player, decent shooter. Should excel if he can stay healthy, which a year off would help.

[Taj79]

The extent of injuries surrounding the basketball team appear to be pretty top secret.  Ditto disciplinary actions and the like.  Only through hearsay  and speculation Hankton fought leg, shoulder and back problems as far as I can tell.  

In two years, Hankton made 34 game appearances, which is about 50% of all possible games.  He scored 51 total points for an average of 1.5 ppg.  His high game this year was an 8 point effort against Valpo.  The year prior, he went off for 11 against Richmond, which left 26 points scored in the other 21 games he got in.  And this was on a six-man team.  He was constantly beaten on the boards and was soft on defense, but what freshman isn't?

Personally, a nice enough kid and team mate but showing little to nothing between the lines.  Did not appear to be a major contributor at the D1 level according to some.

In my time with the program (since 1975-76) I have seen very few SLU transfers go on to have better careers at other institutions.  Maybe KC breaks that mold.

[3star_recruit]

41 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

The extent of injuries surrounding the basketball team appear to be pretty top secret.  Ditto disciplinary actions and the like.  Only through hearsay  and speculation Hankton fought leg, shoulder and back problems as far as I can tell.  

In two years, Hankton made 34 game appearances, which is about 50% of all possible games.  He scored 51 total points for an average of 1.5 ppg.  His high game this year was an 8 point effort against Valpo.  The year prior, he went off for 11 against Richmond, which left 26 points scored in the other 21 games he got in.  And this was on a six-man team.  He was constantly beaten on the boards and was soft on defense, but what freshman isn't?

Personally, a nice enough kid and team mate but showing little to nothing between the lines.  Did not appear to be a major contributor at the D1 level according to some.

In my time with the program (since 1975-76) I have seen very few SLU transfers go on to have better careers at other institutions.  Maybe KC breaks that mold.

I think the mold is already broken. Pretty much every Crews recruit that transferred has gone on to a better career at another institution.

[Taj79]

I guess it depends on how you subjectively measure objective production.  Who were the [dead] recruits that transferred out?  Tanner Lancona.  Marcus Bartley.  Miles Reynolds.  Austin Gillman.  Brett Jolley.  Matt Neufeld.  Jermaine Bishop.  Maybe throw Grandy Glaze, Kieth Carter and Jared Drew in there.  Drew and Gillman disappeared.  Lancona and Jolley went down a few divisional levels.  Neufeld did little at his new California school.  Which leaves you with the four guards who at best were all the third or fourth guards on their respective teams except for Bishop .... who went to the MEAC and Norfolk State.  I think that graphically demonstrates that NONE of [dead's] recruits were worth doo-doo and the man had no clue how to evaluate talent.  

The only guys  in the history of the program who transferred to better things and careers were Ricky Frazier (Mizzou), Julian Winfield (Mizzou), Ricky Cranford (for one year at Boston U), Jason Edwin (one year at Kent State), Jeff Ford (SW Mo State), Jalen Johnson (Louisiana), to name  a few.  And only Frazier had accomplished more than middle of the road results.

But like I said, it's subjective and in my universe, Billiken transfers out of the program have done very little.  I expect Hankton to be the same.  Ditto Diarra.

[Littlebill]

25 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I guess it depends on how you subjectively measure objective production.  Who were the [dead] recruits that transferred out?  Tanner Lancona.  Marcus Bartley.  Miles Reynolds.  Austin Gillman.  Brett Jolley.  Matt Neufeld.  Jermaine Bishop.  Maybe throw Grandy Glaze, Kieth Carter and Jared Drew in there.  Drew and Gillman disappeared.  Lancona and Jolley went down a few divisional levels.  Neufeld did little at his new California school.  Which leaves you with the four guards who at best were all the third or fourth guards on their respective teams except for Bishop .... who went to the MEAC and Norfolk State.  I think that graphically demonstrates that NONE of [dead's] recruits were worth doo-doo and the man had no clue how to evaluate talent.  

The only guys  in the history of the program who transferred to better things and careers were Ricky Frazier (Mizzou), Julian Winfield (Mizzou), Ricky Cranford (for one year at Boston U), Jason Edwin (one year at Kent State), Jeff Ford (SW Mo State), Jalen Johnson (Louisiana), to name  a few.  And only Frazier had accomplished more than middle of the road results.

But like I said, it's subjective and in my universe, Billiken transfers out of the program have done very little.  I expect Hankton to be the same.  Ditto Diarra.

Carter ended up being a good player at Valpo, though he was a Majerus recruit. 10.3/3.3/4.5. And Reynolds did end up transferring up.

[slu72]

I think Jalen Johnson probably has done the most. He’s now worked himself into a P5 scholarship after playing well at LA Tech. 

[Compton]

48 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I guess it depends on how you subjectively measure objective production.  Who were the [dead] recruits that transferred out?  Tanner Lancona.  Marcus Bartley.  Miles Reynolds.  Austin Gillman.  Brett Jolley.  Matt Neufeld.  Jermaine Bishop.  Maybe throw Grandy Glaze, Kieth Carter and Jared Drew in there.  Drew and Gillman disappeared.  Lancona and Jolley went down a few divisional levels.  Neufeld did little at his new California school.  Which leaves you with the four guards who at best were all the third or fourth guards on their respective teams except for Bishop .... who went to the MEAC and Norfolk State.  I think that graphically demonstrates that NONE of [dead's] recruits were worth doo-doo and the man had no clue how to evaluate talent. 

Just to clarify on Miles Reynolds, in 2017-18 at Pacific he was the 2nd highest scorer on the team and 2nd in mpg among guards. In 2018-19 at Oklahoma he was 3rd in minutes and 4th in scoring among guards. He averaged 23 minutes in their two NCAA tournament games, basically as their sixth man at that point. 

Being a leader of a .500 WCC team, when the WCC had two Top 25 teams, and then contributing significant minutes (averaged 20+ for the season) to a P5 tournament team, including in two tournament games, was "transferr[ing] to better things and careers" than he could have expected by staying. 

Also, you left Milik Yarbrough off of the list. He led the Illinois State Redbirds in scoring, rebounding and assists two years in a row. 

 

Not defending Crews' recruiting ability here. Just saying that a few of these kids had some talent and were worth more than.... what you describe. 

 

[TheChosenOne]

58 minutes ago, slu72 said:

I think Jalen Johnson probably has done the most. He’s now worked himself into a P5 scholarship after playing well at LA Tech. 

I completely missed Jalen Johnson transferring to Mississippi State! Good for him. While I don't remember my exact thoughts throughout his time here, I liked his game and kind of wished he came when we had more depth so he could grow into a role as opposed to being forced into big minutes from day #1.

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, Compton said:

 

Also, you left Milik Yarbrough off of the list. He led the Illinois State Redbirds in scoring, rebounding and assists two years in a row. 

 

i am pretty sure yarbrough also let the redbirds in suspended games.   yes he was one we really wished hadnt gotten away.

[NH]

Certainly not defending [dead]'s ability to recruit, but just wanted to add a little additional commentary on the above list. Drew, Carter and Glaze were all Majerus recruits (as was Austin Mcbroom, who also transferred away). Carter and Glaze ended up being good at their next schools, bummer we never saw that here.

Lancona, Jolly, Gillmann and Neufeld were all Crews big man recruits who did nothing after SLU. Gillmann didn't even transfer, he just stopped playing basketball. Of Crews' guard recruits, Reynolds, Yarborough and Bishop all had good college careers after leaving Yarborough has been the best, with a 2nd team all-MVC and a 1st team all-MVC. Marcus Bartley was a solid role player at SIUC, about the same quality of player he was at SLU. The only other Crews recruit I can think of who transferred was Zeke Moore. He did nothing at Tulsa for a year before having a decent season for SIUE last year. 

Other guys who left during the Majerus era include:

• Christian Salecich: Was an ok player at SIUE
• Jon Smith: Had a good career at Ohio University as a valuable role player
• Jeff Reid: Didn't play D1 again, think he went to Washburn in KC
• Justin Jordan: Went to IPFW for a little but basically dissapeared 
• Ruben Cotto: Dissapeared
• Brett Thompson: Went to Lindenwood

From the Soderberg era of recruits:

• Marcus Relphorde: Had a very good career at Colorado
• Adam Knollmeyer: Went D2
• Anthony Mitchell: Role player on some bad SIUE teams
• Dustin Maguire: Left D1 to go to Northern Kentucky
• Horace Dixon: Very brief stint at Southern University
• Obi Ikeakor: Did just about nothing at New Orleans
• Darren Clarke: Had one okay season at UTEP

 

As an aside, going back through those Soderberg rosters was a striking reminder of how few even average players he recruited. It is incredible that he won as many games as he did with that little recruiting success. 

[Fraz42]

19 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i am pretty sure yarbrough also let the redbirds in suspended games.   yes he was one we really wished hadnt gotten away.

Yarbrough thrives under Ford and is an A10 1st teamer 

[billiken_roy]

5 minutes ago, Fraz42 said:

Yarbrough thrives under Ford and is an A10 1st teamer 

I disagree.  I say he was trouble no matter where he went and who the coach was/is.   Ford has not demonstrated he will put up with nonsense and coddle headcases.  

[Pistol]

That's a lot of filler for a guy who just wanted to know about Hankton.

His injuries were the persistent and nagging but not shut-down level, as I understood it. He really added to his frame between freshman and sophomore year. He can stretch it with his shooting. He's a smart player who moves well and has a knack for spacing and timing but we saw him more frequently as a freshman and he got outbodied a lot - e.g. he'd be right where he needed to be for a rebound and often not come up with it.

Bottom line is he's kind of a mystery to us because we didn't get much of a chance to see him. A year off will/would (depending on potential waiver) probably do him well. I could see him being a solid contributing role player at Chattanooga if he gets healthy and is well suited for the system there. Hope it works out for you guys, @GoMocs.

[Cowboy]

1 hour ago, NH said:

Certainly not defending [dead]'s ability to recruit, but just wanted to add a little additional commentary on the above list. Drew, Carter and Glaze were all Majerus recruits (as was Austin Mcbroom, who also transferred away). Carter and Glaze ended up being good at their next schools, bummer we never saw that here.

Lancona, Jolly, Gillmann and Neufeld were all Crews big man recruits who did nothing after SLU. Gillmann didn't even transfer, he just stopped playing basketball. Of Crews' guard recruits, Reynolds, Yarborough and Bishop all had good college careers after leaving Yarborough has been the best, with a 2nd team all-MVC and a 1st team all-MVC. Marcus Bartley was a solid role player at SIUC, about the same quality of player he was at SLU. The only other Crews recruit I can think of who transferred was Zeke Moore. He did nothing at Tulsa for a year before having a decent season for SIUE last year. 

Other guys who left during the Majerus era include:

• Christian Salecich: Was an ok player at SIUE
• Jon Smith: Had a good career at Ohio University as a valuable role player
• Jeff Reid: Didn't play D1 again, think he went to Washburn in KC
• Justin Jordan: Went to IPFW for a little but basically dissapeared 
• Ruben Cotto: Dissapeared
• Brett Thompson: Went to Lindenwood

From the Soderberg era of recruits:

• Marcus Relphorde: Had a very good career at Colorado
• Adam Knollmeyer: Went D2 - historic ability to dunk
• Anthony Mitchell: Role player on some bad SIUE teams
• Dustin Maguire: Left D1 to go to Northern Kentucky
• Horace Dixon: Very brief stint at Southern University
• Obi Ikeakor: Did just about nothing at New Orleans
• Darren Clarke: Had one okay season at UTEP

 

As an aside, going back through those Soderberg rosters was a striking reminder of how few even average players he recruited. It is incredible that he won as many games as he did with that little recruiting success. 

 

[Taj79]

Bottom line:  Billikens that transfer don't do particularly well elsewhere.  I tried to stay away from Rick's boys and Sodie's boys because that wasn't the question.  I am uncertain as to what involvement if any [dead] had with Glaze, Drew and Carter but threw them in there just the same due to time frame.  Once again, if the postives are Reynolds, Bishop, Carter and Glaze, I woudl counter that Pepperdine, Norfolk State, Valpo and Grand Canyon are at levels that might have been better suited to their "talent level" all along.

[billikenfan05]

21 hours ago, NH said:

Certainly not defending [dead]'s ability to recruit, but just wanted to add a little additional commentary on the above list. Drew, Carter and Glaze were all Majerus recruits (as was Austin Mcbroom, who also transferred away). Carter and Glaze ended up being good at their next schools, bummer we never saw that here.

Lancona, Jolly, Gillmann and Neufeld were all Crews big man recruits who did nothing after SLU. Gillmann didn't even transfer, he just stopped playing basketball. Of Crews' guard recruits, Reynolds, Yarborough and Bishop all had good college careers after leaving Yarborough has been the best, with a 2nd team all-MVC and a 1st team all-MVC. Marcus Bartley was a solid role player at SIUC, about the same quality of player he was at SLU. The only other Crews recruit I can think of who transferred was Zeke Moore. He did nothing at Tulsa for a year before having a decent season for SIUE last year. 

Other guys who left during the Majerus era include:

• Christian Salecich: Was an ok player at SIUE
• Jon Smith: Had a good career at Ohio University as a valuable role player
• Jeff Reid: Didn't play D1 again, think he went to Washburn in KC
• Justin Jordan: Went to IPFW for a little but basically dissapeared 
• Ruben Cotto: Dissapeared
• Brett Thompson: Went to Lindenwood

From the Soderberg era of recruits:

• Marcus Relphorde: Had a very good career at Colorado
• Adam Knollmeyer: Went D2
• Anthony Mitchell: Role player on some bad SIUE teams
• Dustin Maguire: Left D1 to go to Northern Kentucky
• Horace Dixon: Very brief stint at Southern University
• Obi Ikeakor: Did just about nothing at New Orleans
• Darren Clarke: Had one okay season at UTEP

 

As an aside, going back through those Soderberg rosters was a striking reminder of how few even average players he recruited. It is incredible that he won as many games as he did with that little recruiting success. 

Let’s not hold Jeff Reid against Majerus. Freak concussion issues.

[RUBillsFan]

On 6/10/2020 at 6:38 PM, Taj79 said:

In my time with the program (since 1975-76) I have seen very few SLU transfers go on to have better careers at other institutions.  Maybe KC breaks that mold.

 

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Bottom line:  Billikens that transfer don't do particularly well elsewhere.  I tried to stay away from Rick's boys and Sodie's boys because that wasn't the question.  I am uncertain as to what involvement if any [dead] had with Glaze, Drew and Carter but threw them in there just the same due to time frame.  Once again, if the postives are Reynolds, Bishop, Carter and Glaze, I woudl counter that Pepperdine, Norfolk State, Valpo and Grand Canyon are at levels that might have been better suited to their "talent level" all along.

 

Taj, you're moving the goal posts.  In your original post, you said in your "time with the program" (everything after 1975-76) "very few SLU transfers went on to have better careers at other institutions".  Now you're saying that you are limiting the time frame to just during the Crews years and you're seemingly arguing that if they went to a school at a lower level than SLU and had success it doesn't count.

Given that the original question was about whether KC Hankton (a Travis Ford recruit) may have success at Chattanooga (a school at a lower level than SLU), limiting the time frame to Crews years and excluding guys who transferred to a lower level school makes no sense to me.  If anything guys who transferred down like Reynolds, Jalen Johnson, or heck even Zeke Moore (did quite well at SIUE) seem like the most relevant players to use as comparisons.

If Hankton is able to stay healthy (a big if), it seems perfectly reasonable that he could have a very good career at Chattanooga.

[SShoe]

23 hours ago, NH said:

Certainly not defending [dead]'s ability to recruit, but just wanted to add a little additional commentary on the above list. Drew, Carter and Glaze were all Majerus recruits (as was Austin Mcbroom, who also transferred away). Carter and Glaze ended up being good at their next schools, bummer we never saw that here.

Lancona, Jolly, Gillmann and Neufeld were all Crews big man recruits who did nothing after SLU. Gillmann didn't even transfer, he just stopped playing basketball. Of Crews' guard recruits, Reynolds, Yarborough and Bishop all had good college careers after leaving Yarborough has been the best, with a 2nd team all-MVC and a 1st team all-MVC. Marcus Bartley was a solid role player at SIUC, about the same quality of player he was at SLU. The only other Crews recruit I can think of who transferred was Zeke Moore. He did nothing at Tulsa for a year before having a decent season for SIUE last year. 

Other guys who left during the Majerus era include:

• Christian Salecich: Was an ok player at SIUE
• Jon Smith: Had a good career at Ohio University as a valuable role player
• Jeff Reid: Didn't play D1 again, think he went to Washburn in KC
• Justin Jordan: Went to IPFW for a little but basically dissapeared 
• Ruben Cotto: Dissapeared
• Brett Thompson: Went to Lindenwood

From the Soderberg era of recruits:

• Marcus Relphorde: Had a very good career at Colorado
• Adam Knollmeyer: Went D2
• Anthony Mitchell: Role player on some bad SIUE teams
• Dustin Maguire: Left D1 to go to Northern Kentucky
• Horace Dixon: Very brief stint at Southern University
• Obi Ikeakor: Did just about nothing at New Orleans
• Darren Clarke: Had one okay season at UTEP

 

As an aside, going back through those Soderberg rosters was a striking reminder of how few even average players he recruited. It is incredible that he won as many games as he did with that little recruiting success. 

Marcus Relphorde was a tweener, but ended up being a pretty good player at Colorado and I remember thinking that one was a big mistake at the time.

 

 

[slu72]

23 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Marcus Relphorde was a tweener, but ended up being a pretty good player at Colorado and I remember thinking that one was a big mistake at the time.

 

 

I never understood why Rickma let him go, although, it could have been his decision to leave.