SLU & NCAA Corona Virus Discussion

[moytoy12]

15 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

There is middle ground between what i said “preparing/bracing for a pandemic” and “spend trillions of dollars and agree to destroy the economy with a shutdown”

 

You do see how those aren’t the same thing right? 

I mean, it's not like the Administration had a pandemic playbook or anything to provide guidance.  Oh, wait, Obama left them one.  

[bleedtheblue]

41 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

so spend trillions of dollars and agree to destroy the economy with a shut down order before even one death.    if President Trump had did that the country would have went nuts.    

Shutting down the economy wouldn't have been necessary initially. What is with your 2 dimensional view of things. Ramping up testing, having people who can work from home do so, begin awareness and campaigns for standard precuations/hand washing, checking temperatures, GETTING SOME/ANY EDUCATION TO THE ENTIRE COUNTRY etc. were all things that could have been done first. And again, Kudos to Trump for banning travel from China, but still 40,000 people still flew directly here from China.

[cheeseman]

3 hours ago, brianstl said:

Stop right now with this BS.  You aren't ever going to be able to tell people they can't go back to work/society because they haven't gotten sick and lack antibodies.  You want riots and dead people in the streets?  That will get you riots and dead people in the streets.

That stuff is all fantasy talk and is just a refusal to admit to the situation we are actually facing.  Plus, we have no clue how long the antibodies stay present in someone's system.  So far it appears that it varies greatly from person to person.

You miss the point - unfortunately.  We have to have a unified national plan and yes it may very well need to be different for people and regions.  Yes I agree with you that we do not know how long the antibodies last but for now the best information we have is that having antibodies are better than not.  I am sorry you are struggling understanding the enormity of this situation but whether you or others want to accept what needs/may need to be done will ultimately happen whether you are in denial or not.

 

[brianstl]

3 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

You miss the point - unfortunately.  We have to have a unified national plan and yes it may very well need to be different for people and regions.  Yes I agree with you that we do not know how long the antibodies last but for now the best information we have is that having antibodies are better than not.  I am sorry you are struggling understanding the enormity of this situation but whether you or others want to accept what needs/may need to be done will ultimately happen whether you are in denial or not.

 

It appears that you don't get the point.   I have a clear understanding of what we are facing.  You don't seem to understand what the response will be from people that are told they can't go back to work and society because they haven't gotten sick and as a result don't have antibodies.  Or you tell someone their kid can't go back to school, play with their friends and have close contact with grandparents because the kid doesn't have antibodies.  There will be blood in the streets if that happens.  Real blood, real people dead as people rebel against a system that is viewed as punishing people that haven't gotten sick.

The people suggesting the antibody test as some sort of license back into society are living in a make believe world unhindered by the actual realities of the world we live in. All kinds of plans can sound great until they get bittch slapped by reality.  

[HenryB]

6 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

mark down who started name calling first here.   

by the way the only thing i am asking and nobody answers is why the hysterical panic overeaction.   i have never denied the virus and the serious aspect.   just why other medical situations that kill more are not taken as serious.   no one has explained why less justifies more.  

It's the point Roy has been making from the beginning...a very good point that has never been satisfactorily answered.  If this is going to be our response from here on out every time a new virus breaks out, we don't have much of a future to look forward to.  To Roy's point...another example.  88,000 die each year in the United States each from alcohol. That is a staggering number....covid 19 pales in comparison.  Yet, I have heard not one of the sanctimonious crowd that accuses others of not caring about others utter a peep about it. On the contrary, we have several on the board boasting about getting drunk. Why aren't you demanding an immediate ban on alcohol? 88,000 die a year from it..and many who don't drink suffer the consequences of it. Are you silent because you are an uncaring person...is your cold one much more important to you than the little girl who is killed by the drunk driver? Stop the sanctimonious crap.  Feel free to believe what you want but knock off the name calling and reckless accusations you make against those who disagree with you.

[bleedtheblue]

2 minutes ago, HenryB said:

It's the point Roy has been making from the beginning...a very good point that has never been satisfactorily answered.  If this is going to be our response from here on out every time a new virus breaks out, we don't have much of a future to look forward to.  To Roy's point...another example.  88,000 die each year in the United States each from alcohol. That is a staggering number....covid 19 pales in comparison.  Yet, I have heard not one of the sanctimonious crowd that accuses others of not caring about others utter a peep about it. On the contrary, we have several on the board boasting about getting drunk. Why aren't you demanding an immediate ban on alcohol? 88,000 die a year from it..and many who don't drink suffer the consequences of it. Are you silent because you are an uncaring person...is your cold one much more important to you than the little girl who is killed by the drunk driver? Stop the sanctimonious crap.  Feel free to believe what you want but knock off the name calling and reckless accusations you make against those who disagree with you.

Apples and oranges. Can you at least admit that you understand how alcoholism is neither contagious nor a highly infectious disease. You do understand that, correct?

This doesn't mean that this will be our response with every virus going forward. Hopefully we learn from this and better prepare for future episodes.

And his question has been answered, by me and others on this board. Several times. 

[glazedandconfused]

 

32 minutes ago, HenryB said:

It's the point Roy has been making from the beginning...a very good point that has never been satisfactorily answered.  If this is going to be our response from here on out every time a new virus breaks out, we don't have much of a future to look forward to.  To Roy's point...another example.  88,000 die each year in the United States each from alcohol. That is a staggering number....covid 19 pales in comparison.  Yet, I have heard not one of the sanctimonious crowd that accuses others of not caring about others utter a peep about it. On the contrary, we have several on the board boasting about getting drunk. Why aren't you demanding an immediate ban on alcohol? 88,000 die a year from it..and many who don't drink suffer the consequences of it. Are you silent because you are an uncaring person...is your cold one much more important to you than the little girl who is killed by the drunk driver? Stop the sanctimonious crap.  Feel free to believe what you want but knock off the name calling and reckless accusations you make against those who disagree with you.

Obviously this is a disingenuous post but is Henry saying that there are no systems in place to try and limit drunk driving deaths? Has this guy never heard of prison. Millions of people get arrested each year to try and punish and prevent future drunk driving. 

 

[GBL_Bills]

29 minutes ago, HenryB said:

To Roy's point...another example.  88,000 die each year in the United States each from alcohol. That is a staggering number....covid 19 pales in comparison.
 

Are you silent because you are an uncaring person...is your cold one much more important to you than the little girl who is killed by the drunk driver?

1) My grandparents aren’t at risk of dying if they shake hands with an alcoholic. 
 

2) There are serious criminal penalties for killing someone while drunk driving. The analogous penalty here would be jail time for exposing someone to coronavirus. No one here has suggested that. 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

It appears that you don't get the point.   I have a clear understanding of what we are facing.  You don't seem to understand what the response will be from people that are told they can't go back to work and society because they haven't gotten sick and as a result don't have antibodies.  Or you tell someone their kid can't go back to school, play with their friends and have close contact with grandparents because the kid doesn't have antibodies.  There will be blood in the streets if that happens.  Real blood, real people dead as people rebel against a system that is viewed as punishing people that haven't gotten sick.

The people suggesting the antibody test as some sort of license back into society are living in a make believe world unhindered by the actual realities of the world we live in. All kinds of plans can sound great until they get bittch slapped by reality.  

I have a belief that people will be more willing to be cooperative as a whole then you do.

[brianstl]

1 minute ago, cheeseman said:

I have a belief that people will be more willing to be cooperative as a whole then you do.

When you are asking people to give up their freedom and livelihood, you aren't asking them to cooperate.  You are asking them to submit to internment.  For all intents and purposes you are asking them for them and their family to become slaves to the state until such a time they can pass a test of the state's choosing.

Yeah, people aren't going to go for that.

[BilliesBy40]

3 minutes ago, brianstl said:

When you are asking people to give up their freedom and livelihood, you aren't asking them to cooperate.  You are asking them to submit to internment.  For all intents and purposes you are asking them for them and their family to become slaves to the state until such a time they can pass a test of the state's choosing.

Yeah, people aren't going to go for that.

I ask this sincerely because I think you’ve been one of the most respectful posters in this thread: how long do you think it would take for people to start behaving in the way you indicate? It hasn’t happened yet, and we are nearly one month into social distancing.

[moytoy12]

11 minutes ago, brianstl said:

When you are asking people to give up their freedom and livelihood, you aren't asking them to cooperate.  You are asking them to submit to internment.  For all intents and purposes you are asking them for them and their family to become slaves to the state until such a time they can pass a test of the state's choosing.

Yeah, people aren't going to go for that.

I agree that folks will crack at a certain point and I understand why. I also think that states will generally do what they think is in the best interest of the public.  At some point these two goals will be in conflict.

[brianstl]

Just now, BilliesBy40 said:

I ask this sincerely because I think you’ve been one of the most respectful posters in this thread: how long do you think it would take for people to start behaving in the way you indicate? It hasn’t happened yet, and we are nearly one month into social distancing.

I think we got time before anything like that.  Right now is the we are all in this together mode for the most part.  

Now if you start telling people they can't work and their whole family is confined to their home or certain approved locations while select others can return to normal life because they passed an antibody test...….

In less than 24 hours cities will start burning.  That stuff isn't going to go over with the vast majority of people of any political persuasion.  

[JMM28]

7 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think we got time before anything like that.  Right now is the we are all in this together mode for the most part.  

Now if you start telling people they can't work and their whole family is confined to their home or certain approved locations while select others can return to normal life because they passed an antibody test...….

In less than 24 hours cities will start burning.  That stuff isn't going to go over with the vast majority of people of any political persuasion.  

I mean Michigan’s governor stopped the sale of paint(Really dumb btw) and a ton of people drove to Lansing. A lot of the issue will be the state border areas - Illinois locked down but Missouri open. Or the state wide prescription for a problem confined to one area - Ozarks on lockdown because StL has an issue. 

[moytoy12]

2 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I mean Michigan’s governor stopped the sale of paint(Really dumb btw) and a ton of people drove to Lansing. A lot of the issue will be the state border areas - Illinois locked down but Missouri open. Or the state wide prescription for a problem confined to one area - Ozarks on lockdown because StL has an issue. 

The patchwork open/close possibility will be a big issue.  Hopefully, the states coordinate and play nicely with each other.  

[JMM28]

15 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

The patchwork open/close possibility will be a big issue.  Hopefully, the states coordinate and play nicely with each other.  

Yeah that will be interesting. The New England and West Coast states are seemingly playing well in the sandbox so far. They’re also some of the most densely populated areas. 
 

Another issue is that local governments who rely on sales tax are just getting hammered on the budget front. It is going to be hard for random Midwest midsized area to pay police and fire when revenue is down 30% or more. 

[GBL_Bills]

1 minute ago, JMM28 said:

Yeah that will be interesting. The New England and West Coast states are seemingly playing well in the sandbox so far. They’re also some of the most densely populated areas. 
 

Another issue is that local governments who rely on sales tax are just getting hammered on the budget front. It is going to be hard for random Midwest midsized area to pay police and fire when revenue is down 30% or more. 

Well that's something I didn't think about. Wonder if this will reduce the Balkanization of STL metro area. All those tiny municipalities that require speeding tickets to fund their government may be hurting if people aren't driving.

[glazedandconfused]

58 minutes ago, brianstl said:

When you are asking people to give up their freedom and livelihood, you aren't asking them to cooperate.  You are asking them to submit to internment.  For all intents and purposes you are asking them for them and their family to become slaves to the state until such a time they can pass a test of the state's choosing.

Yeah, people aren't going to go for that.

People are going for a version of that right now. 

[HenryB]

2 hours ago, glazedandconfused said:

 

Obviously this is a disingenuous post but is Henry saying that there are no systems in place to try and limit drunk driving deaths? Has this guy never heard of prison. Millions of people get arrested each year to try and punish and prevent future drunk driving. 

 

What an inane reply. The point (obviously well beyond your  mental capacity) was to point out that there is no hysterical reaction to 88000 lives lost each other. Glazed and confused...how very appropriate.

[slufanskip]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

When you are asking people to give up their freedom and livelihood, you aren't asking them to cooperate.  You are asking them to submit to internment.  For all intents and purposes you are asking them for them and their family to become slaves to the state until such a time they can pass a test of the state's choosing.

Yeah, people aren't going to go for that.

and add in the fact that they are broke and hungry. The Govt can't continue to just give people money forever. 

[almaman]

Over 2 9/11s worth of people lost gone in three days here, we won't have to worry about giving them $$ forever.

[BIG BILL FAN]

2 hours ago, glazedandconfused said:

 

Obviously this is a disingenuous post but is Henry saying that there are no systems in place to try and limit drunk driving deaths? Has this guy never heard of prison. Millions of people get arrested each year to try and punish and prevent future drunk driving. 

 

And how well is it working dumb ass??? The whole point is we are at risk everyday of our lives, and yet we have managed until now, to go about our lives and not  destroy the economy in the process... this crisis is being driven by hate and hysteria....not by facts and reality... how many in the future will be good with banning spectators to all Billiken games, as it is obvious that there will be an increased risk of being infected by a virus? What’s going on now is insane... 

[glazedandconfused]

17 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

And how well is it working dumb ass??? The whole point is we are at risk everyday of our lives, and yet we have managed until now, to go about our lives and not  destroy the economy in the process... this crisis is being driven by hate and hysteria....not by facts and reality... how many in the future will be good with banning spectators to all Billiken games, as it is obvious that there will be an increased risk of being infected by a virus? What’s going on now is insane... 

Pretty well i think. I can guarantee you if there weren’t laws against it and education about it and alcohol check stops, there would be tens of thousands of more deaths by drunk driving

[bleedtheblue]

18 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

And how well is it working dumb ass??? The whole point is we are at risk everyday of our lives, and yet we have managed until now, to go about our lives and not  destroy the economy in the process... this crisis is being driven by hate and hysteria....not by facts and reality... how many in the future will be good with banning spectators to all Billiken games, as it is obvious that there will be an increased risk of being infected by a virus? What’s going on now is insane... 

Seriously curious what your definition of facts and reality is.

[BIG BILL FAN]

21 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

Pretty well i think. I can guarantee you if there weren’t laws against it and education about it and alcohol check stops, there would be tens of thousands of more deaths by drunk driving

You think 88,000 is an acceptable number!!!!! What a heartless sob you are....you do however admit that it’s a major problem by saying there would be tens of thousands more deaths.. by your rational, in dealing with the Coronavirus, shouldn’t the Governor just ban all alcohol sales? Wouldn’t that insure that no one would be at risk???? Why is that risk acceptable but not the risk of acquiring a virus????  Maybe you would feel better if we had a daily posting of deaths everyday, and we could scare the crap out of every citizen and live in fear of ever leaving our home?