SLU & NCAA Corona Virus Discussion

[Basketbill]

3 hours ago, Aquinas said:

I'm in my 60, the edge of the higher risk group. My wife and I have made many sacrifices to help our daughters get good educations, good jobs and have the opportunity to enjoy good careers and pursue their dreams.

I have been concerned about trillion dollar annual deficits and the threat they pose to our economy and our country. Then last week Congress and the president approved adding 2 trillion more to the deficit.  So who is going to pay that 2 trillion?  Our children and grand children. 

It is easy to say, chose life over money. But a more sober way to look at it is what spending and programs would we need to cut to come up with 2 trillion dollars? Our fed gov roughly spends 4 trillion per and roughly 1 trillion of that is social security.  So if we could cancel social security for 2 years, to come up with the 2 trillion dollars to cover it. But that would create tremendous hardships.  Those 2 trillion dollars represent life, and you can't come up with 2 trillion dollars without affecting lives, quality of life and physical life.

If our government and the citizens  lack the will and desire to actually pay the debt back, the only other option is to just print more of it..... lots more.  If we continue to treat our dollars like Monoply money, soon it will be Monopoly money.  We are pretending that shutting down this economy has no real cost, but we are stealing from our children.

We must get back to work, yes there will be consequences. Maybe I will get sick, and maybe I will need a ventilator and there won't be one. That is a risk that I am willing to take, before I watch this country and the future of our children collapse. We must take reasonable precautions, isolate those at greatest risk, but we must go back to work and we can not live in fear. 

 

This is a discussion worth having, but it is not a black and white scenario.  I see this as requiring a short term, medium term and longterm  approach.  The Short term is the here an now,  St. Louis ICU's are filling up and the death count will be rising.  We need to do these drastic restrictions because there is no reliable treatment and current knowledge is that we are all susceptible to getting and spreading the virus.  Prevention and delay is the only option we have available to prevent overwhelming or hospitals.  This did not change March 16th, but that is when our federal government changed its tune.  That is when Fox News changed it tune.  The why and how about that we can discuss later, but the here and now is what we need to deal with.  

CV19  sucks, but for many it is not nearly as bad as sending your sons off to World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, or the sudden void that 9/11 left. We have to stay home.  Rebuilding the economy, healthcare, pandemic response starts with taking care of each other now.  We need to acknowledge that what we do as individuals has an effect on the community around us.  Now is not the time to get back to work and behave like we cannot be killed by this virus. At this time we need to stay home for the good of our neighbor with breast cancer, our neighbor who is pregnant, our neighbor with heart disease, our neighbor with an autoimmune disease now on immunosuppressive treatment, our elderly neighbor, our energetic friendly healthy friend or neighbor(who may die from a cytokine storm) and of course our family, friends and Billikens.

The way to get back to work will be to get through this initial surge and then begin reliably testing everyone. Testing both for active infection and past exposure/recovery with acute and convalescent antibodies.  Then quarantine strictly those with acute infection, leave some restrictions in place for those who have yet to contract this virus, more stringent for those at high risk and get those people who due to prior exposure/illness are no immune .  

Those who are newly immune will however need to continue aggressive hand washing etc, while they may not contract the virus they may act as a fomite and pass it along from an infected individual to a non-infected individual.  There will be hardship, now and in the future,  taxes will go up, the stimulus bills are a good start, but you are right we will need to pay this back, and we will need to work together to come to an agreement. We need to stop the name calling, have constructive conversation and focus on the issue at hand.  Once we get back to work even at 50 % we will need to start addressing the immediate term, and longterm plan.  

[almaman]

3 hours ago, cheeseman said:

So you believe in the popular vote concept.  You do know that Trump lost by 3 million votes.

You forgot to subtract the 3M fraudulent votes SHE got in California, never a bit of proof but he has a hunch.

[almaman]

6 hours ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Then if you care so much about members on this board, quit trashing them! The fact that some support President Trump, shouldn’t be a green light for you or others to attack them. 

They selling any thick skin in the gift shop fire sale? jeez you sound as childish as your hero ruining the country, world and my kid's future.

[almaman]

6 hours ago, HenryB said:

Not looking to pick an argument but these blanket statements people make are so easy to refute. You say he never did press conferences for 3 years...really? He was constantly giving press conferences. Almost every time before boarding his plane he took questions from the media...no president has been more open to the people than him. Now its possible you didn't watch them but he sure as heck had them. We are in a national emergency...most agree it is proper to have daily appearances with the press. Face it...it is not the press conferences that bother you...it is him.  If you liked him they wouldn't be annoying you.  What does bother  me, are those same reporters who come to the conferences for the sole purpose attacking him. Many of the media aren't used to someone actually standing up to them...many of his supporters find that refreshing.

 

those are not press conferences in a proper since at all. standing in the wind with noisy choppers taking off to cheat at golf only calling on his propaganda friends @ Fox of ex employees of his corrupt administration doesn't cut it. He is only doing these embarrassing briefings for attention and to further his mission of destroying the country as we knew it which of course the stunning statesman Bannon keeps reminding us that's what he said he'd do.And now we got Jared in charge again. See if you can make it through this article. To me you on the right that continue to defend him reminds me of people defending Crews around here. there were none and there shouldn't be anyone championing this idiot.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/politics/jared-kushner-coronavirus/index.html

In these troubled times I am now in favor of this thread staying open and if we want to fight it out left vs right just keep it to this thread. Ain't much real Bill's stuff to talk about and no other sports to watch

btw tombstone hilarious Brian

 

[billiken_roy]

4 hours ago, cheeseman said:

So you believe in the popular vote concept.  You do know that Trump lost by 3 million votes.

No I'm saying President  Trump will be re-elected with an overwhelming  electoral college margin.

[Aquinas]

1 hour ago, Basketbill said:

This is a discussion worth having, but it is not a black and white scenario.  I see this as requiring a short term, medium term and longterm  approach.  The Short term is the here an now,  St. Louis ICU's are filling up and the death count will be rising.  We need to do these drastic restrictions because there is no reliable treatment and current knowledge is that we are all susceptible to getting and spreading the virus.  Prevention and delay is the only option we have available to prevent overwhelming or hospitals.  This did not change March 16th, but that is when our federal government changed its tune.  That is when Fox News changed it tune.  The why and how about that we can discuss later, but the here and now is what we need to deal with.  

CV19  sucks, but for many it is not nearly as bad as sending your sons off to World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, or the sudden void that 9/11 left. We have to stay home.  Rebuilding the economy, healthcare, pandemic response starts with taking care of each other now.  We need to acknowledge that what we do as individuals has an effect on the community around us.  Now is not the time to get back to work and behave like we cannot be killed by this virus. At this time we need to stay home for the good of our neighbor with breast cancer, our neighbor who is pregnant, our neighbor with heart disease, our neighbor with an autoimmune disease now on immunosuppressive treatment, our elderly neighbor, our energetic friendly healthy friend or neighbor(who may die from a cytokine storm) and of course our family, friends and Billikens.

The way to get back to work will be to get through this initial surge and then begin reliably testing everyone. Testing both for active infection and past exposure/recovery with acute and convalescent antibodies.  Then quarantine strictly those with acute infection, leave some restrictions in place for those who have yet to contract this virus, more stringent for those at high risk and get those people who due to prior exposure/illness are no immune .  

Those who are newly immune will however need to continue aggressive hand washing etc, while they may not contract the virus they may act as a fomite and pass it along from an infected individual to a non-infected individual.  There will be hardship, now and in the future,  taxes will go up, the stimulus bills are a good start, but you are right we will need to pay this back, and we will need to work together to come to an agreement. We need to stop the name calling, have constructive conversation and focus on the issue at hand.  Once we get back to work even at 50 % we will need to start addressing the immediate term, and longterm plan.  

So how many weeks or months do we wait?  

How much debt are we willing to put on the Millenial credit card?

How many businesses do we let fail?

How long can we do this before our economy  reaches the point of no return?

[willie]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

No I'm saying President  Trump will be re-elected with an overwhelming  electoral college margin.

I wouldn’t bet too much on that if I were you. He may win but it will be extremely close. All comes down to the same 3 or 4 states. Right Steve? 

[Old guy]

9 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

So how many weeks or months do we wait?  

How much debt are we willing to put on the Millenial credit card?

How many businesses do we let fail?

How long can we do this before our economy  reaches the point of no return?

My personal best and most truthful answer to your questions is this: I do not know, and this is not something that will be decided at my level.

[SShoe]

18 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

after november, maybe you will realize america overall sees president Trump a lot different than you do.    

Which is the sad state of this country.  Trump's consistent level of support (43-45%) tells me it does not matter anymore who the candidate is.   We are now just a country of Republicans, Democrats, and people who don't pay attention.

[Old guy]

Shoe, if you look at the percentage of people that generally do not vote in elections, a lot of people belong to the "who cares category" for quite a long time.

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, almaman said:

those are not press conferences in a proper since at all. standing in the wind with noisy choppers taking off to cheat at golf only calling on his propaganda friends @ Fox of ex employees of his corrupt administration doesn't cut it. He is only doing these embarrassing briefings for attention and to further his mission of destroying the country as we knew it which of course the stunning statesman Bannon keeps reminding us that's what he said he'd do.And now we got Jared in charge again. See if you can make it through this article. To me you on the right that continue to defend him reminds me of people defending Crews around here. there were none and there shouldn't be anyone championing this idiot.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/politics/jared-kushner-coronavirus/index.html

In these troubled times I am now in favor of this thread staying open and if we want to fight it out left vs right just keep it to this thread. Ain't much real Bill's stuff to talk about and no other sports to watch

btw tombstone hilarious Brian

 

I'm not the biggest Trump fan but one of the last things I'd read to form an opinion is a CNN opinion piece about him.  You don't get a lot of credibility knocking Fox for being a far right lean (even though you are correct) and then touting a CNN article much less a CNN opinion piece as support for your opinion. He certainly imo gives his haters plenty of ammunition and I agree with some of the criticism, but at least use a real source. 

Also I think  even most Liberals don't think he actually told anyone his mission was to destroy the country as we know it. The guy ran Breitbart, which has about as much integrity as the Huff Post. He got fired, he got mad. Nothing he says has any credibility for or against the right or for or against the left. 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

No I'm saying President  Trump will be re-elected with an overwhelming  electoral college margin.

Well that is not exactly what you implied but I get that you are a supporter of the rule by the minority not majority.

[SShoe]

13 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Shoe, if you look at the percentage of people that generally do not vote in elections, a lot of people belong to the "who cares category" for quite a long time.

Just saying there are no independents anymore.

 

[Basketbill]

2 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

So how many weeks or months do we wait?  

How much debt are we willing to put on the Millenial credit card?

How many businesses do we let fail?

How long can we do this before our economy  reaches the point of no return?

Those are good questions that need to be answered.   Epidemilogists and infectious disease experts warned us of this type of scenario in the past, it was all theoretical and consequences seemed just conjecture.  Now we are seeing the possibilities were real.  Today if we had reliable plentiful testing available we could get started on developing the process, but that is not available at this moment today.  Dr Birx (sp?) the other day suggested university hospitals could get these tests up and running within 30 days.  Of course I could not help but wonder why it was not already available,  then but again a question to be answered later.  What I am gathering from what I am seeing and reading, we will be in for wave of epidemic over the next six months.  We will be able to watch places like Washington, SF Bay Area, and even NY to guide us.  Bay Area seems to have placed restrictions on more quickly than the other two, and seems to be bending the curve there. However there are hiccups, recently a patient discharged to a NH prior to the test result, ended up testing positive days later and now the Nursing home is shut down .  This is where quick reliable accessible testing is an absolute must.  

Make no mistake this is not just about CV19, but also about the patient about to have a heart attack or stroke that may delay coming to an ER, or have delayed response due to the hospital being overwhelmed.  Quality parameters include the time from presentation to Cath lab, and in some city there are reports these are being effected.  The greater the surge on ICU staff the worse that will get.  

[slufanskip]

5 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Which is the sad state of this country.  Trump's consistent level of support (43-45%) tells me it does not matter anymore who the candidate is.   We are now just a country of Republicans, Democrats, and people who don't pay attention.

This is exactly right. We are going to get to choose between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. 

[slufanskip]

1 minute ago, SShoe said:

Just saying there are no independents anymore.

 

And that's because the Republican party is extreme right and the Democratic party is extreme left. I find it hard to find a candidate that I support more than just a little. I actually find it hard to believe anyone fully or even mostly supports either party. 

[glazedandconfused]

3 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

And that's because the Republican party is extreme right and the Democratic party is extreme left. I find it hard to find a candidate that I support more than just a little. I actually find it hard to believe anyone fully or even mostly supports either party. 

Wild false equivalency alert

[almaman]

15 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Just saying there are no independents anymore.

 

I am an independent. forced as always to vote for lesser of 2 evils by one of the roots of our political ills the 2 party system. Have even voted for a few republicans in my day.

[Old guy]

18 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Just saying there are no independents anymore.

 

Just saying there really have been no independents for a long time, just piles of people out there that have lost faith and do not vote.

[slufanskip]

17 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

Wild false equivalency alert

Wrong

[glazedandconfused]

3 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Wrong

Good counterpoint haha The fact that Joe Biden and Hilary Clinton were the last 2 democratic nominees show that party isn’t as extreme left as the party of donald trump is extreme right. Bernie sanders isn’t over here getting nominated 

[slufanskip]

1 minute ago, glazedandconfused said:

Good counterpoint haha The fact that Joe Biden and Hilary Clinton were the last 2 democratic nominees show that party isn’t as extreme left as the party of donald trump is extreme right. Bernie sanders isn’t over here getting nominated 

So you make a nothing statement with no counter and then criticize me for not countering. Beautiful, but not surprising. 

[dlarry]

54 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Which is the sad state of this country.  Trump's consistent level of support (43-45%) tells me it does not matter anymore who the candidate is.   We are now just a country of Republicans, Democrats, and people who don't pay attention.

I would say it’s Republicans, Democrats, and the people who think both sides are acting like babies.

I believe the people in the middle are the majority. Unfortunately, they feel like voting for an independent is a waste of a vote so they won’t do it.

 

[glazedandconfused]

6 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

So you make a nothing statement with no counter and then criticize me for not countering. Beautiful, but not surprising. 

I did you just didn’t like my response so you are deflecting. No worries though have a good day skid

[courtside]

23 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Just saying there really have been no independents for a long time, just piles of people out there that have lost faith and do not vote.

There is also a lot of voter suppression as well as ease of voting concerns for many. It isn't difficult, popular vote only, abolish electoral college, no more gerrymandering and purging voter rolls. Increase days and times that people can vote, mail in voting etc... Make it a National Holiday. The goal is to have as many people as possible vote. If it is isn't, it's disingenous as best.