SLU & NCAA Corona Virus Discussion

[BIG BILL FAN]

13 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

No one is gloating. Absolutely no one is happy about thousands of deaths. 

bull****...there are scores who are delighted with the opportunity to trash Trump, at any cost....even you know that.......

[Old guy]

3 hours ago, billikenbill said:

Listened to the NPR report yesterday on the use of ventilators to treat covid-19. From the healthcare staff interviewed, the disease so inflames and ravages the lungs that way north of 50% of patients don’t survive.

Just the insertion of the tube usually causes lung damage. It’s a brutal, ugly illness that in NO way resembles the flu, so you clowns who made this comparison citing your flu statistics, can  return to wearing your red noses and floppy shoes.

Exactly what do you think that ARDS IS or looks like regardless of the causative factor. It is not pretty and the lungs are not in good shape. People generally  do not survive this with intact lungs. It is not Covid that is doing this, ARDS is the end stage run of this and other diseases. The lungs always look the same with ARDS of whatever cause. They are consolidated with fluid and mucus (some of which can get very thick). Ventilators have to push through this muck to get air into the alveoli and maintain the airways open (using constant positive pressure) to retrieve the air previously pumped in from the alveoli and release it from the lungs. This has to be done despite the pre-existing mucus plugs. There is nothing gentle or soothing about this procedure, which is that patients must be heavily sedated and usually have multitple tubes in and out (foley, NG tube, IV, ET tube, central line for TPN, rectal tubes  may be needed as well) but it can save lives. If you ever are allowed to see a really sick patient in ICU, count the tubes, the more tubes going in, the worse the condition is. The patient is getting better when the  tubes start coming off (this is a general rule). Covid is not any worse or any better than other causes of ARDS at this stage.

As far as the insertion of the tube in the trachea, the inflation of the balloon and the forced ventilation goes, it is entirely true that it causes some damage. The forced ventilation (which is life supporting or else there is not enough ventilation taking place to support life) probably  may cause or worsen pre-existing emphysema. That is why the very best results, not only for Covid patients but for ALL cases of ARDS, entails a significant mortality level.

I agree people have never ever seen or heard presentations of this type of condition. Nothing new here other than the fact that the public is not aware of what is happening and the condition is presented in great detail. Again ARDS is an end stage disease in which the vast majority of patients getting there will die without ventilation,  and a significant number will die WITH ventilation.

Ventilation  may save a person with ARDS but not without at a cost and with a significant mortality involved. It must be understood that life threatening disease or trauma require measures that can cause damage, sometimes significant damage. Ever heard about multiple rib fractures caused by CPR, of many of the other necessary  measures that are taken with patients to save their lives? Doctors and hospitals do not possess divine powers, extreme life or limb saving measures are not a "Lazarus rise" kind of a situation. Available methods (ventilation was not available in 1918 by the way), work but they are generally associated with some mortality and some level of residual damage.

Please believe me, it is a lot better to try to prevent the ARDS stage of Covid and any other disorders with anti inflammatory agents than to have to ventilate whole piles of patients.

What we need to do is to  prevent the disease from happening, by keeping home. When the disease happens, we need to to keep it from getting to the ARDS end stage run, and to do whatever is necessary to do when the end stage is reached. There is NOTHING AT ALL PRETTY OR COMFORTING ABOUT DEATH, or about disease.

Remember this as the absolute truth: Banks are the places where the money is. Hospitals are the places where diseases and infections are. Stay away from hospitals as much as you can, you will never get as close at your home to more sources of serious transmittable disease than you will in a hospital.

 

[Pistol]

19 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

No one is gloating. Absolutely no one is happy about thousands of deaths. 

When you see everything as Trump vs. the world, you assume that anything that is bad for Trump is good for those who didn't vote for him and don't support him. Big Bill Fan clearly thinks this way and is incapable of seeing reality because of it. The reality is that no one is gloating and this sucks for everyone.

Trump had a chance to make the response to this apolitical and unifying. Instead, he chose to ignore it, then deny it, then downplay it. He made it about himself and treated it initially as a political inconvenience and a threat to the economy - and therefore a threat to his reelection chances because he's tied his entire presidency to the success of the stock market.

In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, Bush's approval rating surpassed 90%. His immediate response was about coming together to deal with something terrible we'd never experienced before. Had Trump done the same, his approval rating would be double what it currently is.

But that isn't what he did and we're dealing with the effects of that. This is what happens when the president is a malignant narcissist obsessed with undoing the work of his predecessor (a pandemic response team seems like something that would come in handy right about now, for example), and who has surrounded himself with grifters and yes men instead of competent, experienced professionals.

This isn't complicated. It all happened right out in the open.

[moytoy12]

8 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

bull****...there are scores who are delighted with the opportunity to trash Trump, at any cost....even you know that.......

Trump's bumbling response to this pandemic has endangered my family. 

My parents are the biggest Trump supporters in the world. They're also in rural Oklahoma where this pandemic isn't being handled with the seriousness it deserves (restaurants in their area are still serving dine-in meals).  They have specifically told me that this isn't serious and have quoted Trump's statements as support.  They also have worrisome underlying health issues, including diabetes. I don't want them to die. I'm not delighted at their prospects.  There is a chance I will never see them again.  

 

 

[almaman]

27 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

bull****...there are scores who are delighted with the opportunity to trash Trump, at any cost....even you know that.......

Who r u Pence?  STFU

[Old guy]

9 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Trump's bumbling response to this pandemic has endangered my family. 

My parents are the biggest Trump supporters in the world. They're also in rural Oklahoma where this pandemic isn't being handled with the seriousness it deserves (restaurants in their area are still serving dine-in meals).  They have specifically told me that this isn't serious and have quoted Trump's statements as support.  They also have worrisome underlying health issues, including diabetes. I don't want them to die. I'm not delighted at their prospects.  There is a chance I will never see them again.  

 

 

Moytoy, you cannot change what you cannot change. If you believe in prayer I will be happy to add mine to keep your parents safe from this disease.

[moytoy12]

2 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Moytoy, you cannot change what you cannot change. If you believe in prayer I will be happy to add mine to keep your parents safe from this disease.

Ain't that the truth. My parents are a stubborn set of folks.  My concern is that they represent a broader group of high-risk individuals in rural America. 

I'm more of a kindness/good energy guy, which is basically the same thing.  Also, I should probably take a dose of my own medicine and be kinder, especially to those I disagree with.  I'll work on that.  

[RiseAndGrind]

37 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

bull****...there are scores who are delighted with the opportunity to trash Trump, at any cost....even you know that.......

Who on this Board? 

[BIG BILL FAN]

28 minutes ago, Pistol said:

When you see everything as Trump vs. the world, you assume that anything that is bad for Trump is good for those who didn't vote for him and don't support him. Big Bill Fan clearly thinks this way and is incapable of seeing reality because of it. The reality is that no one is gloating and this sucks for everyone.

Trump had a chance to make the response to this apolitical and unifying. Instead, he chose to ignore it, then deny it, then downplay it. He made it about himself and treated it initially as a political inconvenience and a threat to the economy - and therefore a threat to his reelection chances because he's tied his entire presidency to the success of the stock market.

In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, Bush's approval rating surpassed 90%. His immediate response was about coming together to deal with something terrible we'd never experienced before. Had Trump done the same, his approval rating would be double what it currently is.

But that isn't what he did and we're dealing with the effects of that. This is what happens when the president is a malignant narcissist obsessed with undoing the work of his predecessor (a pandemic response team seems like something that would come in handy right about now, for example), and who has surrounded himself with grifters and yes men instead of competent, experienced professionals.

This isn't complicated. It all happened right out in the open.

you have no credibility at all....name one thing you have given him credit for????? answer is, you haven't.....Trump called for a travel to China, ONE DAY AFTER THE WHO DECLARED A GLOBAL EMERGENCY, and was criticized by Dem leaders as racist for doing ....Trump pushed for the possible use of the Malaria drug treatment, and the Dems screamed that was irresponsible....Trump has been amazing getting the private sector involved in this crisis....so just stop your phony bull**** Pete...you haven't tried to be the least bit objective....

[papal]

I just saw the results of a non-randomized French study published March 20th . 20 Coronavirus patients with 16 control patients.  Viral shedding was 3-6 days shorter with hydroxychloraquine and zithromax vs controls.  Also saw study stating mortality of intubated patients ranged from 25-60%.  It is hard to be apolitical at this time, but I hope we all can stop the rhetoric and focus on the crisis at hand

[Pistol]

9 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

you have no credibility at all....name one thing you have given him credit for????? answer is, you haven't.....Trump called for a travel to China, ONE DAY AFTER THE WHO DECLARED A GLOBAL EMERGENCY, and was criticized by Dem leaders as racist for doing ....Trump pushed for the possible use of the Malaria drug treatment, and the Dems screamed that was irresponsible....Trump has been amazing getting the private sector involved in this crisis....so just stop your phony bull**** Pete...you haven't tried to be the least bit objective....

I could rebut your post with a fact check but we all know it won't matter. You seem to have a severe case of that TDS you keep talking about - the one where we can both look at the same thing, I see the most severe display of public incompetence and buffoonery I've seen in my entire life, and you see someone just crushing it despite all evidence to the contrary. I know you live in a cocoon (a safe space) that serves as an echo chamber for what you want to hear and you can't be reasoned with.

I give credit where credit is due. I praised a republican president in my previous post. The republican governor of my state has done an overall excellent job of handling this crisis. I'm capable of seeing things and people for what and who they are. It's not hard to go back and look at the things the president has said and done since this all began. I've been following this closely all along and by any objective measure, he's failed and continues to fail. I didn't vote for him and I certainly won't next time, but that doesn't mean I want him to be this bad at his job.

[GBL_Bills]

28 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

you have no credibility at all....name one thing you have given him credit for????? answer is, you haven't.....Trump called for a travel to China, ONE DAY AFTER THE WHO DECLARED A GLOBAL EMERGENCY, and was criticized by Dem leaders as racist for doing ....Trump pushed for the possible use of the Malaria drug treatment, and the Dems screamed that was irresponsible....Trump has been amazing getting the private sector involved in this crisis....so just stop your phony bull**** Pete...you haven't tried to be the least bit objective....

The travel ban from China was the right move. 

It has since been completely nullified by the administration’s incompetency since then. 

I don’t know how anyone could look at the US when compared to South Korea and claim that we did a great job at this. 

[slusam]

8 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I could rebut your post with a fact check but we all know it won't matter. You seem to have a severe case of that TDS you keep talking about - the one where we can both look at the same thing, I see the most severe display of public incompetence and buffoonery I've seen in my entire life, and you see someone just crushing it despite all evidence to the contrary. I know you live in a cocoon (a safe space) that serves as an echo chamber for what you want to hear and you can't be reasoned with.

I give credit where credit is due. I praised a republican president in my previous post. The republican governor of my state has done an overall excellent job of handling this crisis. I'm capable of seeing things and people for what and who they are. It's not hard to go back and look at the things the president has said and done since this all began. I've been following this closely all along and by any objective measure, he's failed and continues to fail. I didn't vote for him and I certainly won't next time, but that doesn't mean I want him to be this bad at his job.

Please just stop. People from both sides of the political spectrum are doing everything they can. Mistakes are always made at the beginning of these types of things until real data is collected. 

[dennis_w]

3 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said:

The travel ban from China was the right move. 

It has since been completely nullified by the administration’s incompetency since then. 

I don’t know how anyone could look at the US when compared to South Korea and claim that we did a great job at this. 

please be specific when you say incompetent , give examples

[glazedandconfused]

11 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

please be specific when you say incompetent , give examples

"please be specific when you say incompetent, give examples"

*someone gives examples*

"how can you trust _____ . They are fake news"

*gives different example from another source*

"you just hate trump and are a leftist ...you want people to die so trump looks bad"

 

As fun as it is to keep playing the hits, let's save ourselves some time and just avoid this debate for the 12th time

[dennis_w]

3 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

"please be specific when you say incompetent, give examples"

*someone gives examples*

"how can you trust _____ . They are fake news"

*gives different example from another source*

"you just hate trump and are a leftist ...you want people to die so trump looks bad"

 

As fun as it is to keep playing the hits, let's save ourselves some time and just avoid this debate for the 12th time

did you just give me examples? save yourself some time and dont respond if you dont want to

[GBL_Bills]

1 hour ago, dennis_w said:

please be specific when you say incompetent , give examples

Administration firing CDC officials in China designated to help identify potential pandemics: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/26/trump-administration-slashed-cdc-staff-inside-china-prior-to-coronavirus-outbreak/amp/

Failure to ramp up testing: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.amp.html

Miscommunication between CDC and state health departments: https://www.propublica.org/article/internal-emails-show-how-chaos-at-the-cdc-slowed-the-early-response-to-coronavirus

The chaos surrounding the return of Americans abroad following his announcement of the expanded travel advisory: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/15/816065950/travelers-greeted-with-hours-long-airport-lines-as-coronavirus-screenings-begin

The aforementioned firing of the pandemic response. 

Now, the above examples are more about the administration writ large. I don’t know how much of a role POTUS directly had in any of them. 

His personal main fault is absolutely the inconsistency of messaging and downplaying the potential crisis, instead of confronting it head on. Remember the “we only have 15 cases, it will go down to 0, it’ll be a miracle.”

Also, he absolutely should have been pressuring red state governors to enact stay at home restrictions earlier. DeSantis leaving beaches open is inexcusable. Now, that’s not directly Trump’s fault, but he should have been using the bully pulpit on his own party. 

Also, before I get accused at blaming the wrong people, the Chinese government is absolutely responsible for the bulk of this from their cracking down on health care workers speaking up, potentially misleading the world about the number of active cases, and, most importantly, continuing to let wet markets exist. 

But that doesn’t excuse our own government’s mishandling. 

[HenryB]

5 hours ago, billikenbill said:

Big Bill Fan, my question for you is can you view your Faux News propagandists while wearing that big red nose?

 

5 hours ago, billikenbill said:

Big Bill Fan, my question for you is can you view your Faux News propagandists while wearing that big red nose?

Billikenbill...do you think personal insults make it more likely that others are going to thoughtfully consider your arguments?  Insulting is usually a tactic used by those who can't win a debate on the merits.  It is disgusting and low class.  Your liberal bias is on full display.  You and many others continue to peddle the narrative that Fox News is deliberately downplaying the seriousness of the virus.  The evidence doesn't support your blanket accusations.  For example, as has been mentioned before, no one has been more on top of the danger of this virus than Tucker Carlson.  He began covering it in January when no other media person would touch it.  He works for Fox News.  I searched your posts and guess what?  No one time in January or February did you warn us of the dangers of the corona virus.  Not one time did you tell us to stay away from games.  Not one time did you tell us not to go to work or practice social distancing.  If your news sources were telling you of the dangers how came you didn't warn us?  Is it because you are mean, uncaring, or incompetent as you suggest the President is or was it because your news sources were spewing out propaganda that minimized it? I can provide you with countless examples of liberal media downplaying the seriousness of the virus....are you calling them propagandists or are you ignoring that inconvenient truth because it doesn't fit your Trump hating narrative?

I am going to share with you a clip of liberal media and politicians telling us not to be alarmed?  Do you still want to suggest that only Fox News is peddling propaganda? When you make blanket statements attacking others and their views without supporting evidence you are always going to look foolish.

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2020/04/01/since-dems-are-saying-trump-didnt-act-on-the-virus-soon-enough-heres-a-supercut-of-how-serious-they-were-taking-it-themselves/

[Billiken Rich]

For me the third biggest pain in the arse about this virus is having to avoid this stupid thread which should've been moderated out of existence by now in my opinion.  I can no longer use the "next unread topic" link without stumbling into this infested political mess...... 

[almaman]

37 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

please be specific when you say incompetent , give examples

Turn on anything but Fox. Read anything other than Wash times and Pravda you’ll see many examples. There is a running total of his out right lies in the 10k range. Just google it although your post indicates lack of desire for the truth. 

[dennis_w]

4 minutes ago, almaman said:

Turn on anything but Fox. Read anything other than Wash times and Pravda you’ll see many examples. There is a running total of his out right lies in the 10k range. Just google it although your post indicates lack of desire for the truth. 

 

5 minutes ago, almaman said:

Turn on anything but Fox. Read anything other than Wash times and Pravda you’ll see many examples. There is a running total of his out right lies in the 10k range. Just google it although your post indicates lack of desire for the truth. 

not sure your desire for the truth is all that evident. 

[HenryB]

10 minutes ago, almaman said:

Turn on anything but Fox. Read anything other than Wash times and Pravda you’ll see many examples. There is a running total of his out right lies in the 10k range. Just google it although your post indicates lack of desire for the truth. 

So...are you saying all the news on media outlets other than Fox are accurate....really???

 

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/02/9-times-the-media-weaponized-coronavirus-coverage-to-attack-trump/

[BIG BILL FAN]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

I could rebut your post with a fact check but we all know it won't matter. You seem to have a severe case of that TDS you keep talking about - the one where we can both look at the same thing, I see the most severe display of public incompetence and buffoonery I've seen in my entire life, and you see someone just crushing it despite all evidence to the contrary. I know you live in a cocoon (a safe space) that serves as an echo chamber for what you want to hear and you can't be reasoned with.

I give credit where credit is due. I praised a republican president in my previous post. The republican governor of my state has done an overall excellent job of handling this crisis. I'm capable of seeing things and people for what and who they are. It's not hard to go back and look at the things the president has said and done since this all began. I've been following this closely all along and by any objective measure, he's failed and continues to fail. I didn't vote for him and I certainly won't next time, but that doesn't mean I want him to be this bad at his job.

but you just can't bring yourself to credit Trump.....pathetic.......

 

Gavin Newsome Tells Jake Tapper The Truth About Trump: ‘Let me just be candid with you. I’d be lying to you to say that he hasn’t been responsive to our needs, he has’

[RiseAndGrind]

7 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

but you just can't bring yourself to credit Trump.....pathetic.......

 

Gavin Newsome Tells Jake Tapper The Truth About Trump: ‘Let me just be candid with you. I’d be lying to you to say that he hasn’t been responsive to our needs, he has’

All I know is that when thousands of people are dying I am MOST CONCERNED about who gets the "credit."  

I try to ignore you BBF, but you demand answers to every question you ask, but you don't answer a single one of my questions. 

[glazedandconfused]

18 minutes ago, HenryB said:

So...are you saying all the news on media outlets other than Fox are accurate....really???

 

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/02/9-times-the-media-weaponized-coronavirus-coverage-to-attack-trump/

This the same The Federalist that had an entire section of their website called Black Crime? And the same The Federalist who told people to have Coronavirus parties to spread the disease to create herd immunity against all medical professional's warnings?

No one should be clicking on any of their stuff.