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In order to competently fight this epidemic, we need a competent and fully engaged federal government to completely support our medical community with all its available resources. So far we have had the CDC, VP Pence, and now FEMA try to carry the ball. All have failed to be up to the task.

Fifteen cases to zero, with a slight detour. Ralph Kramden must be driving the bus.

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3 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

In order to competently fight this epidemic, we need a competent and fully engaged federal government to completely support our medical community with all its available resources. So far we have had the CDC, VP Pence, and now FEMA try to carry the ball. All have failed to be up to the task.

Fifteen cases to zero, with a slight detour. Ralph Kramden must be driving the bus.

kEeP PoLiTIcS OfF ThE bOaRd

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5 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

In order to competently fight this epidemic, we need a competent and fully engaged federal government to completely support our medical community with all its available resources. So far we have had the CDC, VP Pence, and now FEMA try to carry the ball. All have failed to be up to the task.

Fifteen cases to zero, with a slight detour. Ralph Kramden must be driving the bus.

"To the moon Alice"

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57 minutes ago, disgruntledbilliken said:

kEeP PoLiTIcS OfF ThE bOaRd

This isn’t politics, this is recognizing that private industry and local hospitals cannot cope with this fight. We need the federal government to step up and hit a home run. We need the resources brought to bear, and that means millions of masks, tyvek, safety glasses, ventilators, etc.

We need doctors, nurses, and techs to be given their diplomas ASAP, and thrown into the fight.

There is a reason we have the NIH, CDC and numerous other entities that get billions of dollars. We need all of that federal assistance at the frontlines, identifying effective treatments, getting a dialed in vaccine, and killing profiteering.

Don’t throw out one side of the equation and then trot out the “we can’t talk about politics” , because it is the other side of the solution. If we want to have a season next year.

The virus has not mutated. And it is doing quite well in Australia and Malaysia, in the dead of summer. This is not a short term fix.

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18 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

In order to competently fight this epidemic, we need a competent and fully engaged federal government to completely support our medical community with all its available resources. So far we have had the CDC, VP Pence, and now FEMA try to carry the ball. All have failed to be up to the task.

Fifteen cases to zero, with a slight detour. Ralph Kramden must be driving the bus.

this coming from a man who told us that Jimmy Bell was a heavy footed troll....but i digress ....apparently much of America doesn't agree with your assessment....

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

This is not what his critics expected. At 49% overall job approval in the latest Gallup poll, and with 60% approval of the way he is handling the coronavirus epidemic, President Trump’s standing with voters has improved even as the country closed down and the stock market underwent a historic meltdown. That may change as this unpredictable crisis develops, but bitter and often justified criticism of Mr. Trump’s decision making in the early months of the pandemic has so far failed to break the bond between the 45th president and his political base.

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12 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

this coming from a man who told us that Jimmy Bell was a heavy footed troll....but i regress....apparently much of America doesn't agree with your assessment....

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

This is not what his critics expected. At 49% overall job approval in the latest Gallup poll, and with 60% approval of the way he is handling the coronavirus epidemic, President Trump’s standing with voters has improved even as the country closed down and the stock market underwent a historic meltdown. That may change as this unpredictable crisis develops, but bitter and often justified criticism of Mr. Trump’s decision making in the early months of the pandemic has so far failed to break the bond between the 45th president and his political base.

Indeed you do regress. Everything with you has to be (1) personal; or (2) an "attack" on the President.

 

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25 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

And Big Bill, I have responded to you, but you keep floating like a butterfly. We have to take care of the medical problem as the economy limps and staggers.

Limps and staggers is greatly understated.  3.3 million people becoming  unemployed just this week is dead in the water.

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38 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

this coming from a man who told us that Jimmy Bell was a heavy footed troll....but i regress....apparently much of America doesn't agree with your assessment....

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

This is not what his critics expected. At 49% overall job approval in the latest Gallup poll, and with 60% approval of the way he is handling the coronavirus epidemic, President Trump’s standing with voters has improved even as the country closed down and the stock market underwent a historic meltdown. That may change as this unpredictable crisis develops, but bitter and often justified criticism of Mr. Trump’s decision making in the early months of the pandemic has so far failed to break the bond between the 45th president and his political base.

Nate Silver of 538 believes these numbers are low. There is a certain amount of rally around the flag associated with a leader in times of crisis. George Bush had something like a 95% favorable rating after 911. But you are right nothing will change his base. 

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Roy, we all realize the economy is in the crapper. The question is - are we going to climb out, and get hit over the head with the toilet bowl lid before we exit the toilet.

What are your specific plans, Roy? What businesses do you want reopened, or do you want everything reopened? What trip points do you want for not reopening?

if we reopen at Easter, we have zero new PPE, no new respirators, all of the hot zones will see a diaspora of infected people to areas of lower concentrations, and suddenly it will be regional hospitals with small staffs, not giant teaching hospitals, that get flooded.

You never take an action without a viable contingency plan, and the resources to support that plan, in this type of disaster.This whole engagement is following in the tracks of the failed 2017 government pandemic exercise. Little PPE. No effective coordinated command structure. No satellite triage centers, so major hospitals were lost to housing only pandemic patients. Mobilization of military and VA resources were sporadic and slow.

The military isn’t doing much better itself. We just lost one of our nuclear aircraft carriers. The Teddy Roosevelt pulled in and parked at Guam, with over 30 sailors infected. It will be there with a skeleton crew for the reactor plants, but it is OOC for at least three weeks. And there are 5000 people to test. Other branches are experiencing similar situAtions.

 

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58 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Limps and staggers is greatly understated.  3.3 million people becoming  unemployed just this week is dead in the water.

According to this article, that 3.3 number seems to be a vast under count.  

"More than 1.7 million calls were placed last week to the New York State Labor Department seeking unemployment benefits, the department reported Wednesday on Twitter. But according to DOL's count, only 80,334 New Yorkers applied for benefits."

"In Texas, the state's workforce commission said it received calls last week from more than 800,000 people trying to file unemployment claims, The Dallas Morning News reported Wednesday. But DOL reported only 155,657 new claims there."

 

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35 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Roy, we all realize the economy is in the crapper. The question is - are we going to climb out, and get hit over the head with the toilet bowl lid before we exit the toilet.

What are your specific plans, Roy? What businesses do you want reopened, or do you want everything reopened? What trip points do you want for not reopening?

if we reopen at Easter, we have zero new PPE, no new respirators, all of the hot zones will see a diaspora of infected people to areas of lower concentrations, and suddenly it will be regional hospitals with small staffs, not giant teaching hospitals, that get flooded.

You never take an action without a viable contingency plan, and the resources to support that plan, in this type of disaster.This whole engagement is following in the tracks of the failed 2017 government pandemic exercise. Little PPE. No effective coordinated command structure. No satellite triage centers, so major hospitals were lost to housing only pandemic patients. Mobilization of military and VA resources were sporadic and slow.

The military isn’t doing much better itself. We just lost one of our nuclear aircraft carriers. The Teddy Roosevelt pulled in and parked at Guam, with over 30 sailors infected. It will be there with a skeleton crew for the reactor plants, but it is OOC for at least three weeks. And there are 5000 people to test. Other branches are experiencing similar situAtions.

 

i am not president.   and i am not privy to the information that the president or apparently like most of you on this board have to give you my specific plan.   

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35 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

 

What are your specific plans, Roy? What businesses do you want reopened, or do you want everything reopened? What trip points do you want for not reopening?

 

Fair question and looking forward to the response (no snark intended).  This is really the rub, what would an effective re-opening (or partial re-opening) look like?  Is it even possible given the current state of things? As @Sheltiedave points out, it sure doesn't seem like it is. 

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5 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

exactly.   it needs to be a discussion.   so many just dont want to even talk about a solution and that is what is scaring me.   we cant hide in bunkers forever.   imo, we cant hide in our bunkers for 2 more months.  or even shorter.   

Roy, you want a discussion, you want to talk about a solution. Here is an opportunity. Don’t abdicate when you have the floor.

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59 minutes ago, willie said:

Nate Silver of 538 believes these numbers are low. There is a certain amount of rally around the flag associated with a leader in times of crisis. George Bush had something like a 95% favorable rating after 911. But you are right nothing will change his base. 

Jimmy Carter's approval rating jumped 26% during the first few months of the Iran hostage crisis. The difference between now and some of the recent past Presidents, is that Trump's numbers are relatively flat during the same time others have received a larger initial bump. Then of course things changed longer term for some.

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16 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Fair question and looking forward to the response (no snark intended).  This is really the rub, what would an effective re-opening (or partial re-opening) look like?  Is it even possible given the current state of things? As @Sheltiedave points out, it sure doesn't seem like it is. 

Of course it’s possible. First of all, the President never said we were reopening at Easter, he said he would like to see it. I don’t see what’s controversial about that. Would  people feel better if said, plan on waiting up to a year? Of course not. It also doesn’t have to be an all or nothing proposition. Vast parts of the country are having minimum infections, why should they be held back because some other areas are struggling? I think it’s totally feasible, with some sensible precautions, for many to return to work. Obviously, those with higher risks, may need to stay out longer. As for my personal experience, I’m still working, because I’m deemed to be performing an essential service. Every person at our facility upon entering, has his temperature checked and is asked a few basic questions about how they are feeling and if anyone they live with are having issues. If they are viewed as a risk they are sent home. We live with risks everyday which we have to assess. At some time we have to get back to work, or there eventually won’t be anything to return to. I know many on this board despise our President, but I appreciate his optimism and confidence. The last thing I want to hear is whoa is me, and things will never get better. If your leader doesn’t display confidence, then you’re finished no matter the situation.

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34 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Roy, you want a discussion, you want to talk about a solution. Here is an opportunity. Don’t abdicate when you have the floor.

i've never seen anyone use "abdictate" in a discussion before.  that must be worth big points. 

i've given you my solution.   start opening the country gradually based on the statistics.   FOR EXAMPLE, new york stays closed, seattle stays closed, the rural areas where there is not a high amount of infections opens, etc.  as the closed area's incidents fall open them as well.    but to blankly all stay closed indefinitely is jeopardizing america more.  it's time to get back to work.  you all dont realize how many people live paycheck to paycheck.   i see it all the time.   america cannot afford this as is.   

hope this helps you cliff.

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15 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Of course it’s possible. First of all, the President never said we were reopening at Easter, he said he would like to see it. I don’t see what’s controversial about that. Would  people feel better if said, plan on waiting up to a year? Of course not. It also doesn’t have to be an all or nothing proposition. Vast parts of the country are having minimum infections, why should they be held back because some other areas are struggling? I think it’s totally feasible, with some sensible precautions, for many to return to work. Obviously, those with higher risks, may need to stay out longer. As for my personal experience, I’m still working, because I’m deemed to be performing an essential service. Every person at our facility upon entering, has his temperature checked and is asked a few basic questions about how they are feeling and if anyone they live with are having issues. If they are viewed as a risk they are sent home. We live with risks everyday which we have to assess. At some time we have to get back to work, or there eventually won’t be anything to return to. I know many on this board despise our President, but I appreciate his optimism and confidence. The last thing I want to hear is whoa is me, and things will never get better. If your leader doesn’t display confidence, then you’re finished no matter the situation.

to quote your hero "sad".

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18 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Of course it’s possible. First of all, the President never said we were reopening at Easter, he said he would like to see it. I don’t see what’s controversial about that. Would  people feel better if said, plan on waiting up to a year? Of course not. It also doesn’t have to be an all or nothing proposition. Vast parts of the country are having minimum infections, why should they be held back because some other areas are struggling? I think it’s totally feasible, with some sensible precautions, for many to return to work. Obviously, those with higher risks, may need to stay out longer. As for my personal experience, I’m still working, because I’m deemed to be performing an essential service. Every person at our facility upon entering, has his temperature checked and is asked a few basic questions about how they are feeling and if anyone they live with are having issues. If they are viewed as a risk they are sent home. We live with risks everyday which we have to assess. At some time we have to get back to work, or there eventually won’t be anything to return to. I know many on this board despise our President, but I appreciate his optimism and confidence. The last thing I want to hear is whoa is me, and things will never get better. If your leader doesn’t display confidence, then you’re finished no matter the situation.

Most people I hear discussing the "reopen" scenario would like that (whatever version they may advocate) to happen within 2-4 weeks.  I'm not sure any full or partial re-opening is possible in that time frame for many of the reasons posted already by @Sheltiedave

Regarding vast parts of the country having minimum infections, many (myself included) believe that results from lack of testing.  Again, take my example of Palm Beach County.  1.4 million people, but only 1200 tests conducted.  Many within that community are likely infected, yet, it would likely be considered a low risk area.  Such a designation is extremely risky bordering on reckless given the lack of data. 

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The federal government can't order the economy reopened and make everybody go back to work.  Sure, they've sent out guidelines, but closures and stay-home orders have come at the local, state, and private-sector levels and not all local or state governments are issuing stay-at-home orders (see St. Charles County or state of Texas). For the rest, the orders to reopen will come from them when they feel the time is right.  

Offering hope and optimism is fine assuming its not false hope and optimism.  Trump is and has been offering false hope and it just gives people a false sense of security so they go out and do stupid things like go to restaurants, bars, churches, or beaches before the spread is stopped.  And then we're just back to square one again.

The fact that we are now the country with the most confirmed cases in the world is a testament to how truly awful and inept this administration really is.  We had months to prepare, make testing widely available, and put in restrictions, but instead they chose to bury their heads in the sand and tell everyone things were fine.  The most truthful thing Trump has said in the past 3.5 years is that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose any voters.  

  

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