Jump to content
Billikens.com Message Board
ACE

Transfers and grad transfers - 2020

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

i dont have too much problem with your scenario, but what if the player loves being a part of the team, feels he is at least contributing in practice and wants a slu degree instead of a mckendree college degree?   imo, that that player should be a billiken.  

It is McKendree University now, and us alums are thriving thank you very much

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

You are not comparing apples to apples.  A college basketball team is not the same as a business owner/employee relationship.

I think that Billiken Roy and DLarry had it nailed down.  It is best for a coach to be honest with a kid about his prospects for playing time while also stressing that he is welcome to stay four all four years if he wishes.

Depends on the level of basketball.  The blue-blood brands that the NCAA is selling (Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas) look a lot like businesses.  Coach K, Coach Cal, Roy and Self are basically corrupt CEOs and ESPN is their marketing department.  They even practice damage control when the business practices of these CEOs are occasionally investigated.

How successful do we want to be?  For what we want to accomplish, a perennial top 40 program, you may have to occasionally run off an unproductive player.  But given that the top 8 in our rotation are pretty much already set, we have the luxury of holding on to the 12th and 13th guy.  They're being recruited over in the 2021 class anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

Do you have inside info on Diarra?

Otherwise, he was a freshman big that was coming off of a serious injury.  I have seen next to nothing on him from the coaching staff or anyone close to the team.
It isn't unusual for a 6 10 freshman to ride the bench his first year. 
I am hoping that he makes progress over the summer and picks up reserve minutes this coming season. 

Especially great teams. If we have 13 studs someone will ride the bench. In his case it is a raw tall which even in the best scenarios only a few 18 yer old bigs are fully formed upon college entrance.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Karrington Davis is leaving SIUC, reportedly doing a JUCO year to boost his stock. He left Chaminade after his junior year for Montverde, didn't play much there, signed with Nebraska, blew out his knee in the summer and redshirted, transferred to SIUC and was immediately eligible as a RS freshman this year. Averaged 11.6 MPG and 3.0 PPG. Had a SLU offer while at Chaminade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i dont have too much problem with your scenario, but what if the player loves being a part of the team, feels he is at least contributing in practice and wants a slu degree instead of a mckendree college degree?   imo, that that player should be a billiken.  

Correct roy, he may very well be closing in on that slu degree and want to finish that program and should get to.He also might want to get on the court and play. With the depth coming back no newcomer is likely to get many minutes and hankton might want to go where he can play. i am sure he will have that discussion with ford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i disagree.   telling a player he is currently low on the depth chart is one thing,  advising him it might be in his best interest to leave imo is softly running the player off.  the coach needs to tell the player what he needs to do to garner more time and what to work on and advise how he and his staff are willing to help.  the staff recruited the player, if would seem to me they owe the player the chance to get better and the time to help coach them up.    

I’ve always agreed with your philosophy, that players shouldn’t be run off if they are meeting basic requirements. That said, if players are going to be allowed to transfer without any restrictions, which seems likely, this is going to make coaches think long and hard about the wisdom of doing that. Look at Wichita State... you can be wiped out in a blink of an eye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pistol said:

Karrington Davis is leaving SIUC, reportedly doing a JUCO year to boost his stock. He left Chaminade after his junior year for Montverde, didn't play much there, signed with Nebraska, blew out his knee in the summer and redshirted, transferred to SIUC and was immediately eligible as a RS freshman this year. Averaged 11.6 MPG and 3.0 PPG. Had a SLU offer while at Chaminade.

Too bad. SIUC seemed to be putting some pieces together this season under a new coach. They had a nice little seven win stretch mid-season, including wins over UNI and Loyola. 

Hopefully things work out for SIUC and Davis. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Depends on the level of basketball.  The blue-blood brands that the NCAA is selling (Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas) look a lot like businesses.  Coach K, Coach Cal, Roy and Self are basically corrupt CEOs and ESPN is their marketing department.  They even practice damage control when the business practices of these CEOs are occasionally investigated.

How successful do we want to be?  For what we want to accomplish, a perennial top 40 program, you may have to occasionally run off an unproductive player.  But given that the top 8 in our rotation are pretty much already set, we have the luxury of holding on to the 12th and 13th guy.  They're being recruited over in the 2021 class anyway.

3 star, I agree the top 8 in our rotation are set and we may have the luxury of holding on to the  12th and 13th guys, but only if we have no injuries, no events that result is someone leaving unexpectedly like Santos, and no transfers. For example what happens if one of our stars decides to go for the NBA draft and is successful? What happens if someone gets the Covid-19 and has to be out of play? What happens if the coaches are counting on a fully functional Thatch next season and this just does not happen? The luxury may become a major liability in a very short time. Then it is back to playing with a depleted bench once more. Could this happen, surely it could. Is it likely to happen, probably not but who knows?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, A10Ref said:

Diarra seems dead in the water. I wouldn't be shocked if he left. Travis put him in four games so clearly did not want to redshirt him.

I think dead in the water is a little harsh given that we still only go 2 deep in the front court without him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I think dead in the water is a little harsh given that we still only go 2 deep in the front court without him.

Wasn't he coming off of a significant injury and a known developmental guy (a recruit we took a flyer on)? Definitely harsh to say he is dead in the water after his freshman season when many thought he might be a redshirt guy when he signed. The coaching staff would obviously have a much better idea whether he made strides throughout the year and is progressing, but not all 13 guys on scholarship are going to get minutes and be world beaters. With the roster we had this year and have for next year, having a developmental underclassman on the bench isn't going to hurt us. I know nothing about Diarra, so this isn't so much a commentary on him specifically as I have no idea whether he will be a player in the future. Our roster also sets up really nicely for a traditional transfer who profiles like a Bess/Henriquez/Santos type as in sit a year and then be a starter caliber player. The thing that is odd to me concerning Diarra is why he didn't redshirt, seems like a wasted year of eligibility for him (got into 4 games and played a total of 10 minutes).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Compton said:

Too bad. SIUC seemed to be putting some pieces together this season under a new coach. They had a nice little seven win stretch mid-season, including wins over UNI and Loyola. 

Hopefully things work out for SIUC and Davis. 

The only thing I know about Karrington Davis at SIUC is that he didn't like to pass. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Wasn't he coming off of a significant injury and a known developmental guy (a recruit we took a flyer on)? Definitely harsh to say he is dead in the water after his freshman season when many thought he might be a redshirt guy when he signed. The coaching staff would obviously have a much better idea whether he made strides throughout the year and is progressing, but not all 13 guys on scholarship are going to get minutes and be world beaters. With the roster we had this year and have for next year, having a developmental underclassman on the bench isn't going to hurt us. I know nothing about Diarra, so this isn't so much a commentary on him specifically as I have no idea whether he will be a player in the future. Our roster also sets up really nicely for a traditional transfer who profiles like a Bess/Henriquez/Santos type as in sit a year and then be a starter caliber player. The thing that is odd to me concerning Diarra is why he didn't redshirt, seems like a wasted year of eligibility for him (got into 4 games and played a total of 10 minutes).

I’ve been saying the same thing for 2 months. If we’re gonna call kids “tools” for not coming to SLU, it makes ZERO SENSE to give up on a kid after 1 year of not playing many minutes, when he came in with a knee injury. It’s absolutely counter-intuitive. Maybe Diarra will turn out to be a bust, but NOBODY in this board really knows anything about Diarra’s game right now. It’s just blinding guessing based on how few minutes he played, and that’s it. Like I’ve said in the past, exactly zero young men who come to SLU to play basketball are finished products after their freshman years. If we dismissed every kid who wasn’t a regular contributor after their freshman year, we would be missing out on some phenomenal players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm very willing to give diarra the benefit of the doubt.   hell he is 6'11" tall and obviously has some athletic ability.   well worth patience.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i'm very willing to give diarra the benefit of the doubt.   hell he is 6'11" tall and obviously has some athletic ability.   well worth patience.  

centers have to make the biggest adjustments imo(for most).  you go from being the tallest and biggest in 95%+ of your HS games to "undersized" as a frosh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to his good size and build, I liked how Diarra got up and down the floor in his very limited minutes. We have no idea whether he will develop into a solid D1 player, but there is enough there to justify patience as long as he has a good attitude and work ethic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, davidnark said:

In addition to his good size and build, I liked how Diarra got up and down the floor in his very limited minutes. We have no idea whether he will develop into a solid D1 player, but there is enough there to justify patience as long as he has a good attitude and work ethic. 

I question whether he has the ability to play at this level but I do believe he is a good teammate. I believe Ford has said that and if you watch him on the bench he is very enthusiastic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, davidnark said:

In addition to his good size and build, I liked how Diarra got up and down the floor in his very limited minutes. We have no idea whether he will develop into a solid D1 player, but there is enough there to justify patience as long as he has a good attitude and work ethic. 

so mote it be!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're always going to have a 13th scholarship that contributes nothing.  The reality is that only 9 guys are going to play significant minutes and unless 3 guys get injured, the 13th guy isn't going to play as a freshmen.  Possibly, not even as a sophomore.  The question is do you rotate this guy out every 2 years or do you let him stay?  At the end of the day, it's a matter of preference.  It simply doesn't matter who the 13th guy is.  On a good team, they are career backups at best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

We're always going to have a 13th scholarship that contributes nothing.  The reality is that only 9 guys are going to play significant minutes and unless 3 guys get injured, the 13th guy isn't going to play as a freshmen.  Possibly, not even as a sophomore.  The question is do you rotate this guy out every 2 years or do you let him stay?  At the end of the day, it's a matter of preference.  It simply doesn't matter who the 13th guy is.  On a good team, they are career backups at best.

3 star, yes you are totally correct and that is the way it works most years. Then you have years when things plainly do not go your way, you have to really work your players to bring the  best you can out of them. When it works and the bench has the talent and capability to fill the gap you do fine, when this does not you do not do well. You cannot tell in advance what misfortunes are going to come your way in a season. I think you want to have as capable a bunch of players in the bench  as you can. I am not disagreeing with you in how teams work in normal years, I am talking about risk prevention and management applied to  a basketball team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

We're always going to have a 13th scholarship that contributes nothing.  The reality is that only 9 guys are going to play significant minutes and unless 3 guys get injured, the 13th guy isn't going to play as a freshmen.  Possibly, not even as a sophomore.  The question is do you rotate this guy out every 2 years or do you let him stay?  At the end of the day, it's a matter of preference.  It simply doesn't matter who the 13th guy is.  On a good team, they are career backups at best.

That is true, but if the 13th guy is a quality sit-one transfer, that is different. That's a valuable player waiting in the wings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ACE said:

That is true, but if the 13th guy is a quality sit-one transfer, that is different. That's a valuable player waiting in the wings.

Which is why I've been pushing that as the preferred option for 13th scholarship for years now.  The prevailing sentiment on the board is that every one of those 13 scholarships need to be filled with guys who can play right away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both Diarra and Hargrove were given opportunities to redshirt. Both turned them down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

We're always going to have a 13th scholarship that contributes nothing.  The reality is that only 9 guys are going to play significant minutes and unless 3 guys get injured, the 13th guy isn't going to play as a freshmen.  Possibly, not even as a sophomore.  The question is do you rotate this guy out every 2 years or do you let him stay?  At the end of the day, it's a matter of preference.  It simply doesn't matter who the 13th guy is.  On a good team, they are career backups at best.

If that is always going to be the case, then having that guy be a big that has the potential to contribute down the road seems ideal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bigs get injured. Diarra is an important part of the future of this team. He knows the system and will be a rotation guy by his junior year, if not sooner on account of an injury. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

I think dead in the water is a little harsh given that we still only go 2 deep in the front court without him.

Dead in the water is definitely too harsh. I hope he stays around because his body is absurd, but I wouldn't be too surprised if he left to get more reps elsewhere. I see us in win-now mode, and a grad transfer big would provide our best win-now chances imo. At the end of the day, Diarra seems like a great teammate so wish him the best on Team Blue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...