Transfers and grad transfers - 2020

[TheChosenOne]

34 minutes ago, Slowry said:

Unpaid labor?  Tell a regular student leaving SLU with over 200k in student loan debt vs a player leaving with zero debt that they aren’t paid.   I’m not saying there couldn’t be more done for players or that they don’t need to compensated better.  But unpaid labor they are not.   Student loans are a big problem for a lot of people.  A problem most student athletes will never face.  

I will edit my post, I didn't intend that to be the part of my post to generate discussion and certainly did not mean to upset folks.

I would like to understand the argument for why basketball and football players should have to sit out a year if they make the decision to transfer. I fully understand why coaches at any level program would not want that changed, but I am trying to understand why the rule makes sense. It is great to hear some of these coaches school teenagers on honoring commitments......

[slufan13]

I thought college was supposed to prepare you for your career? If an athlete feels like a different school would prepare them better, why shouldn't they be allowed to go to that school without penalty? Now, most of these athletes are delusional that they have a professional basketball career ahead of them but that's a separate topic for me. I'd like to see some restrictions to the rule in general like transfers hurt your APR score or something so that schools can't just turnover their entire roster or that a player can only transfer once in their career without penalty or that you can't transfer until after your sophomore year. But I also don't think that this will hurt schools like SLU a ton. We might lose a couple of good players but I also think we can gain some good players. I also think that coaches have a hard enough time getting grad transfers up to speed with just one offseason so I would anticipate the same issue for regular transfers.

I actually think that the end of the one and done rule will hurt SLU more. Once the top 15 recruits can go straight to the NBA, it will make the fringe top 100 kids more appealing to the big schools that we are all afraid of

[wgstl]

I think schools should only be allowed so many per year too, that would help spread out the wealth a little bit 

[TheChosenOne]

11 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Respectfully Chosen the athletes are paid by an education at a great institution like SLU.

From where I come from I would love to have had a degree from SLU and I am envious of all of the SLU grads.

What make Billikens athletics special to the wife and I is that most of the athletes graduate and have a SLU degree.

There are some schools like Kentucky I have no respect for that is not interested in educating the kids who I would see as unpaid on an NBA farm team.

I edited my previous post to remove unpaid, it wasn't my intention to make that the focus of the discussion. I fully understand the position of you and others who don't want to hear that these guys are not compensated. My intentions were not to disrespect anyone when I wrote that, so I certainly apologize for how it came across.

[Pistol]

5 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I thought college was supposed to prepare you for your career? If an athlete feels like a different school would prepare them better, why shouldn't they be allowed to go to that school without penalty? Now, most of these athletes are delusional that they have a professional basketball career ahead of them but that's a separate topic for me. I'd like to see some restrictions to the rule in general like transfers hurt your APR score or something so that schools can't just turnover their entire roster or that a player can only transfer once in their career without penalty or that you can't transfer until after your sophomore year. But I also don't think that this will hurt schools like SLU a ton. We might lose a couple of good players but I also think we can gain some good players. I also think that coaches have a hard enough time getting grad transfers up to speed with just one offseason so I would anticipate the same issue for regular transfers.

I actually think that the end of the one and done rule will hurt SLU more. Once the top 15 recruits can go straight to the NBA, it will make the fringe top 100 kids more appealing to the big schools that we are all afraid of

 

4 minutes ago, wgstl said:

I think schools should only be allowed so many per year too, that would help spread out the wealth a little bit 

You'd have to put a restriction on incoming transfers. Nothing you can do about outgoing if players want to leave. But I don't see why the NCAA couldn't come up with a number and be like "a school may accept no more than 2.5 transfers per year averaged over the course of 5 years, with coaching change years excepted" or something like that.

[billiken_roy]

i detest that the ncaa is moving away more from any emphasis on academics and the real student college experience.  imo, it is the biggest error that the ncaa has made.   to me even though these student athletes are all about their sports, it should still be first and foremost about their education.   and if they dont care about their education, frankly, they shouldnt be in college.  

the ncaa should force all athletes to truly qualify for entrance to college, put 100% of their police effort into the academic side of things.   they must pass their own tests and classes to get into school.   and then when in college, they must pass their classes and be on pace to graduate.   if they cannot, they should go play pro ball somewhere or go to work but they shouldnt be in college.

sometimes i wonder if all colleges shouldnt be under D3 rules.

 

[NoCoBillsFan]

Could a no-sit transfer rule actually help SLU? With Ford as our coach, I could see us picking up players from some bigger schools, like Javon Bess. Sure, we would lose players, but with Ford’s recruiting ability he could make up for that and then some. 

[TheChosenOne]

3 minutes ago, NoCoBillsFan said:

Could a no-sit transfer rule actually help SLU? With Ford as our coach, I could see us picking up players from some bigger schools, like Javon Bess. Sure, we would lose players, but with Ford’s recruiting ability he could make up for that and then some. 

I would think it would benefit any coach who is a strong recruiter and also really well liked by his players. Now that we have the aquarium and Ferris wheel just down the street, who is going to sign up to play at SLU and leave?

[dennis_w]

13 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i detest that the ncaa is moving away more from any emphasis on academics and the real student college experience.  imo, it is the biggest error that the ncaa has made.   to me even though these student athletes are all about their sports, it should still be first and foremost about their education.   and if they dont care about their education, frankly, they shouldnt be in college.  

the ncaa should force all athletes to truly qualify for entrance to college, put 100% of their police effort into the academic side of things.   they must pass their own tests and classes to get into school.   and then when in college, they must pass their classes and be on pace to graduate.   if they cannot, they should go play pro ball somewhere or go to work but they shouldnt be in college.

sometimes i wonder if all colleges shouldnt be under D3 rules.

 

It is a rarity when any recruit mentions academics as the reason for choosing a school, or transferring to another. I remember waiting at  the semester break wondering if players would be academically eligible for the spring. I cant remember the last time one wasnt

[Pistol]

The rule change would most likely be neutral for SLU and probably overall. There would be some negative aspects of it - as highlighted by Rothstein's article shared by HoosierPal yesterday - but I don't see it changing the competitive balance much from where it is now.

[wgstl]

Can we just borrow this guy from our neighbors?

[BilliesBy40]

9 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Can we just borrow this guy from our neighbors?

Sheesh. What is his story? Looks live rivals had him as a 3 star coming out of high school, and he went the juco route before ending up at Harris-Stowe. 

[wgstl]

4 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Sheesh. What is his story? Looks live rivals had him as a 3 star coming out of high school, and he went the juco route before ending up at Harris-Stowe. 

well, he did graduate in 2013, so not too sure on eligibility ha

2013-15 Iowa western

2015-16 Jackson state

2016-2018- DNP

2018-20 Harris stowe 

[ACE]

What happens if a player transfers at semester under the new rule. Would they be immediately eligible to play at their new school? That would be crazy.

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, ACE said:

What happens if a player transfers at semester under the new rule. Would they be immediately eligible to play at their new school? That would be crazy.

Theres no way that will be allowed. 

[ACE]

5 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Theres no way that will be allowed. 

But what about the rights and freedoms of those transferring at semester - it would not be fair if they couldn't play right away?

[Slu let the dogs out?]

29 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Sheesh. What is his story? Looks live rivals had him as a 3 star coming out of high school, and he went the juco route before ending up at Harris-Stowe. 

Sounds like he got Munsoned out in the middle of nowhere.

[billiken_roy]

48 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Sheesh. What is his story? Looks live rivals had him as a 3 star coming out of high school, and he went the juco route before ending up at Harris-Stowe. 

in high school he was quite a player for e st louis.  however i recall the worst looking shot in the world.  guess it doesnt matter if he scores what it looks like.   frankly i had forgotten about him.  

[wgstl]

2 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

in high school he was quite a player for e st louis.  however i recall the worst looking shot in the world.  guess it doesnt matter if he scores what it looks like.   frankly i had forgotten about him.  

because its its been almost 8 years since his senior year ha

[almaman]

we should of played them instead of Maryville

<But what about the rights and freedoms of those transferring at semester - it would not be fair if they couldn't play right away?>

Should be able to at halftime

[slu72]

15 hours ago, BilliesBy40 said:

You’re first four sentences are the argument against your whole point. 

U want to explain the above.

My first  4 sentences make the point he wouldn't transfer if he had to sit out a year. Why would he delay his entry into the NBA by a year? But if he could play that year, he might have given a transfer serious thought. 

[BilliesBy40]

3 minutes ago, slu72 said:

U want to explain the above.

My first  4 sentences make the point he wouldn't transfer if he had to sit out a year. Why would he delay his entry into the NBA by a year? But if he could play that year, he might have given a transfer serious thought. 

If he is able to get ample exposure in the A10 to become a lottery pick (again, at a place he presumably enjoys) he doesn't need to transfer to a blue blood for exposure.

[slu72]

2 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

If he is able to get ample exposure in the A10 to become a lottery pick (again, at a place he presumably enjoys) he doesn't need to transfer to a blue blood for exposure.

Until UD proved it was good, did u think they had a better chance at winning a national championship than UK, KU, Duke etc? Did Obi think so? You can't possibly think that even UD gets the same level of exposure as the elites. Yes, they had a great season, but they had a lot of questions too. And, in the pre season forecasts I don't recall anyone having them in the final 4. Again, my point is the elites already have a lot of advantages going for them, mostly TV related, why give them more with this rule? 

[HoosierPal]

3 hours ago, Pistol said:

 

You'd have to put a restriction on incoming transfers. Nothing you can do about outgoing if players want to leave. But I don't see why the NCAA couldn't come up with a number and be like "a school may accept no more than 2.5 transfers per year averaged over the course of 5 years, with coaching change years excepted" or something like that.

Remember the 5/8 Tim Floyd rule, 5 max newcomers per year, 8 over 2 years.  That blew up quickly as programs were running with 12 or 11 scholarship players due to the limit.  I'm not sure if 2.5 ave per 5 would work.  You limit the incoming, but you can't limit the outgoing transfers.  So if a program such as Wichita State loses 7 players via transfer in one year, unless they load up on freshman, they might have to stop accepting  incoming transfers and grab any available incoming freshman they can find.  Wichita State would be in a serious bind the next four years if they take in 7 to replace the 7 they lost.

I agree, some form of control is needed.  I just don't know what it is.

[slu72]

Boy, WSU losing 7 players is a shocker. Have to wonder what the problem is there. Marshall's always seemed to have the respect of his players. But something's gone haywire.