Transfers and grad transfers - 2020

[billiken_roy]

4 minutes ago, wgstl said:

At what degree does it turn into "running off"?  I think telling a player that it may be in their best interest to think about transferring if they want minutes, is just fine.  

i disagree.   telling a player he is currently low on the depth chart is one thing,  advising him it might be in his best interest to leave imo is softly running the player off.  the coach needs to tell the player what he needs to do to garner more time and what to work on and advise how he and his staff are willing to help.  the staff recruited the player, if would seem to me they owe the player the chance to get better and the time to help coach them up.    

[wgstl]

6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i disagree.   telling a player he is currently low on the depth chart is one thing,  advising him it might be in his best interest to leave imo is softly running the player off.  the coach needs to tell the player what he needs to do to garner more time and what to work on and advise how he and his staff are willing to help.  the staff recruited the player, if would seem to me they owe the player the chance to get better and the time to help coach them up.    

not saying that any of our players are, but what if they're lazy in practice, something along those lines?

I get what you're saying, but at the same times you also have to run a business, or you could find yourself without a job.

 

edit: so far I havent seen a player out there that warrants any of this.  But if some stud was available who wanted to come here and he would be a huge impact, then I think this would need to happen. 

[slu72]

I think in Hankton's case the evidence is pretty clear he's a drag on the roster. He's fragile and when he's healthy he's not shown much. Fine with your approach, but  the coach is hired to win. He's got to put his team in the best position to do that. 

[Billiken Rich]

1 minute ago, slu72 said:

I think in Hankton's case the evidence is pretty clear he's a drag on the roster. He's fragile and when he's healthy he's not shown much. 

I think you are assuming facts not in evidence councilor......

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, slu72 said:

 Fine with your approach, but  the coach is hired to win. He's got to put his team in the best position to do that. 

This is ultimately my main point.  Its easy for us to sit here and say "id tell the kid to kick rocks" or "coach recruited him, he should stay", but this is really tough on a coach for both of those reasons.  He has to win or hes gone, at the same time he has to build trust with players. 

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, Littlebill said:

Searched on twitter and apparently they have two PGs coming in? One being the Fernandes kid from Wich St. Umass twitter just saying East was the “odd man out” so I don’t know if he got pushed out or saw the writing on the wall.
thats what they’re saying at least

The Twitterati have to save face somehow.  East averaged 9 points and 5 assists a game  with a solid assists to turnover ratio.  Fernandes 1.4ppg 1.2 apg and shot 24% from the field as an end of the rotation guy at Wichita State.  Doesn't exactly scream upgrade.

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

Oton Jankovic is leaving Vanderbilt. We recruited him, he's close with Jimerson, and he would be a nice fit on paper. He didn't really do anything at Vandy this season, though, and he'd have to sit a year.

We already have our stretch 4.  Jankovic had his shot but his heart was set on a high-major team.  Actions have consequences.

[billiken_roy]

9 minutes ago, wgstl said:

not saying that any of our players are, but what if they're lazy in practice, something along those lines?

I get what you're saying, but at the same times you also have to run a business, or you could find yourself without a job.

 

edit: so far I havent seen a player out there that warrants any of this.  But if some stud was available who wanted to come here and he would be a huge impact, then I think this would need to happen. 

i would call that a "bad teammate".   and if the coaching staff has gave them plenty of notice that they didnt appreciate their lack of effort and that it wasnt up to expectations, sure, that player should be told to leave.    

now if it is a matter that the player tries hard, fits in does everything asked but just isnt good (personally i believe we have at least one of these now) again the coach picked them.   the coach needs to live with his mistake. 

[RiseAndGrind]

1 minute ago, 3star_recruit said:

We already have our stretch 4.  Jankovic had his shot but his heart was set on a high-major team.  Actions have consequences.

3star coming with the heat. I like it. 

[Old guy]

There are players that have been a drag on the team. Take Gordon for example, he had to be told to "do this or move out." Perhaps those were not the words used but it had to be done. You all know that I publicly expressed my feelings of being sorry about Gordon's inability to move towards his goals. Nevertheless, Ford had to do whatever it was he did. We never knew what kind of problem there was with Santos, but Ford took action and Santos went away. Agree it is harder to take action upon people that fit well with the team and have issues, but Ford is the HC and is expected, it is his responsibility, to run a team that wins, not a feel good commune. Another example Welmer, I think he should have been transitioned into some kind of academic scholarship to open his slot for someone who could play (he could not due to his recurrent issues), the same thing is going on with Hankton. Who expects Hankton to fully  recuperate  by  and be able to play  effectively next season? You do not need to throw him out, transition him into  an academic scholarship instead and free the slot. Does this make the whole team a heartless sweat shop, no of course not. The players are being taken care of and the team can have access to high profile new players to replace the players transitioned to academic scholarships. This is Ford's job to do and to do well. It is not an easy job.

 

[slu72]

57 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

I think you are assuming facts not in evidence councilor......

Well, look at his injury history. Last year missed a number of games and we get a redux this year. He had one good game last year where he scored 11 points. This year, when he's been able to get on the floor, not much at all. I'm not sure what his role is on this team anymore. He was brought in as a stretch big/forward. We now have some snipers, Perkins and Jimerson sometimes Jacobs and the Swede is supposed to provide that as well. What we don't have is a backup to Hasahn, and Hankton doesn't pass the eye test as a PF who can clean the boards and block shots. 

I don't like to see kids leave and don't like to see us run them off, however, we, like a lot of teams, find ourselves at year end running low on contributors. Thank God TJ Hargrove finally got it thru practice. He was a contributor both on D and O at the end of the year. After we lost Thatch and Jimerson our ranks thinned out. If there was a time for Hankton to cowboy up it was after about game 10, but he was injured. Same happened last year. Did he do anything to impress you when he did get some limited minutes either on D or O. Actually, there was not a body of work to really make a judgement. Fine, if we want to keep our skirts lilly white and not encourage him to leave, but after two years we pretty know much what to expect. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong if he stays and develops into our new Cody Ellis, because at some point in the season we're going to need him. 

[dlarry]

What if it is in their best interest to transfer?

Some guys just aren’t good enough no matter how much you work with them.

I see nothing wrong with telling a player “you are more than welcome to stay but if you want playing time it’s not going to happen here.” 

If my coaches knew I wasn’t good enough I’d want to know so I can back my bags and head to a lower level a school.

[Old guy]

5 minutes ago, slu72 said:

 I sincerely hope he proves me wrong if he stays and develops into our new Cody Ellis, because at some point in the season we're going to need him. 

This is exactly the point. We are going to need him to come in and play well next season, not to  have a player that comes out for a couple of minutes here and there and does very little during the time he is in. I think it would be best for the team to get someone new to fit the slot he occupies and transition him to an academic scholarship if he insists to stay at SLU. If he sees the fact that he might do better in a different program and wants to transfer when presented with the option of changing to an academic scholarship, then fine let him transfer. These types of  decisions are part and parcel of what being HC is all about. Ford knows this.

[billiken_roy]

22 minutes ago, Old guy said:

There are players that have been a drag on the team. Take Gordon for example, he had to be told to "do this or move out." Perhaps those were not the words used but it had to be done. You all know that I publicly expressed my feelings of being sorry about Gordon's inability to move towards his goals. Nevertheless, Ford had to do whatever it was he did. We never knew what kind of problem there was with Santos, but Ford took action and Santos went away. Agree it is harder to take action upon people that fit well with the team and have issues, but Ford is the HC and is expected, it is his responsibility, to run a team that wins, not a feel good commune. Another example Welmer, I think he should have been transitioned into some kind of academic scholarship to open his slot for someone who could play (he could not due to his recurrent issues), the same thing is going on with Hankton. Who expects Hankton to fully  recuperate  by  and be able to play  effectively next season? You do not need to throw him out, transition him into  an academic scholarship instead and free the slot. Does this make the whole team a heartless sweat shop, no of course not. The players are being taken care of and the team can have access to high profile new players to replace the players transitioned to academic scholarships. This is Ford's job to do and to do well. It is not an easy job.

 

gordon is a great example of a bad teamate.   and even then, the coaching staff did not boot him.  he left on his own. 

same with Santos.   we dont know what he exactly was involved with or did, but again, he was suspended by ford and santos chose to leave.  

i think welmer was ready to become an adult and gave up on his basketball dream because he had a foot condition that he will live with the rest of his life (see bill walton).   again his decision.

at this point, if hankton loves being a part of the slu community he should be allowed to get his degree and be a part of the team

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

 Actions have consequences.

We have been hearing this exact sentence regarding politics in this country. This is correct, actions have consequences. For example the object of my eternal attention, Mickey Pearson. He spent the year at TCU and did not play a single minute during the whole season. Nice!!! Just what I wanted to hear, and many more to come.

[billiken_roy]

14 minutes ago, dlarry said:

What if it is in their best interest to transfer?

Some guys just aren’t good enough no matter how much you work with them.

I see nothing wrong with telling a player “you are more than welcome to stay but if you want playing time it’s not going to happen here.” 

If my coaches knew I wasn’t good enough I’d want to know so I can back my bags and head to a lower level a school.

i dont have too much problem with your scenario, but what if the player loves being a part of the team, feels he is at least contributing in practice and wants a slu degree instead of a mckendree college degree?   imo, that that player should be a billiken.  

[Cowboy]

-we don't know if CAG and Santos were kicked out or left on their own

-given what this thread has devolved into, can we join the Valley? 

[dlarry]

11 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i dont have too much problem with your scenario, but what if the player loves being a part of the team, feels he is at least contributing in practice and wants a slu degree instead of a mckendree college degree?   imo, that that player should be a billiken.  

I agree.

i think they should be given the option to stay but I think honesty from the coach is the best route.

Some kids just cant hack D1 ball and I think the coach has a right to tell a student that. The student should also be given the choice to stay.

[A10Ref]

Diarra seems dead in the water. I wouldn't be shocked if he left. Travis put him in four games so clearly did not want to redshirt him.

[billikenblue]

You own or run a business...hire a person who can't do the job. Great person but inadequate do you just keep them (don't think so) or do you try and find a better fit or suggest they try another option ( probably) . Travis I believe will handle things as he should given his responsibility as the coach. If he didn't and had a Jim crews mess on his hands we would want him fired and wonder why the team had no talent. 

[almaman]

3 hours ago, Old guy said:

All I can say is that I am glad I do not have to  make the decisions Ford has to make.

We can all agree on this.

[slufanskip]

I'll assume Roy isn't against a coach having an honest and frank conversation regarding his future and potential playing time with a team. (sorry if I'm wrong Roy) but if after that conversation the player wants to stay and has done what he's supposed to do, the coach shouldn't run him off anyway. I'd imagine plenty of transfers happen this way. I know if I was a player I'd want complete honesty without any sugarcoating from my coach

[cgeldmacher]

14 minutes ago, billikenblue said:

You own or run a business...hire a person who can't do the job. Great person but inadequate do you just keep them (don't think so) or do you try and find a better fit or suggest they try another option ( probably) . Travis I believe will handle things as he should given his responsibility as the coach. If he didn't and had a Jim crews mess on his hands we would want him fired and wonder why the team had no talent. 

You are not comparing apples to apples.  A college basketball team is not the same as a business owner/employee relationship.

I think that Billiken Roy and DLarry had it nailed down.  It is best for a coach to be honest with a kid about his prospects for playing time while also stressing that he is welcome to stay four all four years if he wishes.

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, dlarry said:

I see nothing wrong with telling a player “you are more than welcome to stay but if you want playing time it’s not going to happen here.” 

I would hope a coach would also add what the player specifically needs to do to improve enough to gain playing time.  

[Aquinas]

37 minutes ago, A10Ref said:

Diarra seems dead in the water. I wouldn't be shocked if he left. Travis put him in four games so clearly did not want to redshirt him.

Do you have inside info on Diarra?

Otherwise, he was a freshman big that was coming off of a serious injury.  I have seen next to nothing on him from the coaching staff or anyone close to the team.
It isn't unusual for a 6 10 freshman to ride the bench his first year. 
I am hoping that he makes progress over the summer and picks up reserve minutes this coming season.