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GDT: Beat VCU


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41 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

What pressure? Our defense is erratic and not up to Billiken standards, as you would expect with so many first-time D-1 players.  I expect a return to form next season.  Sophomore Yuri will have healthier thumbs and be more aware of how D-1 defenses bait him into turnovers.  The rest is just adding back pieces we already have.  

Goodwin, French, Perkins and Jimerson all averaging double figures plus the best bench in the conference gives us more margin for error than any team in the A-10.

Pressure to score. 
Is it too much to require our PG score some points along the way?   Never said he has to lead the team.  That he has to be a 3 pt shooter... and I believe Yuri has the ability to score 8 ppg. Do you not?

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41 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

What pressure? Our defense is erratic and not up to Billiken standards, as you would expect with so many first-time D-1 players.  I expect a return to form next season.  Sophomore Yuri will have healthier thumbs and be more aware of how D-1 defenses bait him into turnovers.  The rest is just adding back pieces we already have.  

Goodwin, French, Perkins and Jimerson all averaging double figures plus the best bench in the conference gives us more margin for error than any team in the A-10.

Pressure to score. 
Is it too much to require our PG score some points along the way?   Never said he has to lead the team.  That he has to be a 3 pt shooter... and I believe Yuri has the ability to score 8 ppg. Do you not?

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41 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

What pressure? Our defense is erratic and not up to Billiken standards, as you would expect with so many first-time D-1 players.  I expect a return to form next season.  Sophomore Yuri will have healthier thumbs and be more aware of how D-1 defenses bait him into turnovers.  The rest is just adding back pieces we already have.  

Goodwin, French, Perkins and Jimerson all averaging double figures plus the best bench in the conference gives us more margin for error than any team in the A-10.

Pressure to score. 
Is it too much to require our PG score some points along the way?   Never said he has to lead the team.  That he has to be a 3 pt shooter... and I believe Yuri has the ability to score 8 ppg. Do you not?

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38 minutes ago, Billfan7 said:

Are you for real?

Yes. Are you?

Do you believe Yuri is incapable of scoring 8 ppg?   Do most teams not have their PG score points each game?  Is 8 to 10 ppg too unrealistic for Yuri?  2 to 3 ppg during league games is a problem.

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1 minute ago, Clock_Tower said:

Pressure to score. 
Is it too much to require our PG score some points along the way?   Never said he has to lead the team.  That he has to be a 3 pt shooter... and I believe Yuri has the ability to score 8 ppg. Do you not?

When we have players returning capable of boosting our margin of victory by a lot more than 2.5 ppg, I find it curious why you're fixating on one player scoring an additional 2.5 ppg.  It seems like a personal preference -- you prefer the point guard to average close to double figures.  That's fine, but it's not mandatory for team success.

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Chatman averages 7.7 ppg.  Dowtin 14.3 ppg.  Lofton 14.2 ppg.  Gilyard 13.4.  Carry 12.0.  Gudmundsson 14.0.  Evans 9.9 and Hyland 8.4 ppg.  Potter goes for 14.7 with Nelson, Jr. at 11 ppg.  Mason has Hartwell at 9.8 ppg and Johnson at 8.4.  With La Salle its hard to say who plays point.  Umass has East at 9.0.  Cobb goes for 10.8 and then there's Daly at 20.4 but is he a true point?

Yuri is only at 5.6 ppg but as a driver and a slasher, he needs a more refined shooting game to keep the defense honest and not slack off on him.  That, and a better FT% are needed.  I don't think he 'needs' it what with more offensive weapons available next year but he needs to be reaching to a Jalen Crutcher-type of respect when he is on the perimeter.  With Perkins, Jimmerson back, a more confident Jacobs, and an uptick from Goodwin or another shooter, PPG may not be as important to overall winning but it can't hurt.

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30 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Chatman averages 7.7 ppg.  Dowtin 14.3 ppg.  Lofton 14.2 ppg.  Gilyard 13.4.  Carry 12.0.  Gudmundsson 14.0.  Evans 9.9 and Hyland 8.4 ppg.  Potter goes for 14.7 with Nelson, Jr. at 11 ppg.  Mason has Hartwell at 9.8 ppg and Johnson at 8.4.  With La Salle its hard to say who plays point.  Umass has East at 9.0.  Cobb goes for 10.8 and then there's Daly at 20.4 but is he a true point?

Yuri is only at 5.6 ppg but as a driver and a slasher, he needs a more refined shooting game to keep the defense honest and not slack off on him.  That, and a better FT% are needed.  I don't think he 'needs' it what with more offensive weapons available next year but he needs to be reaching to a Jalen Crutcher-type of respect when he is on the perimeter.  With Perkins, Jimmerson back, a more confident Jacobs, and an uptick from Goodwin or another shooter, PPG may not be as important to overall winning but it can't hurt.

Yet you ignore his assist numbers.. I think Yuri will increase his scoring in the years to come, but his true value is helping others to increase their scoring and controlling the pace of the game.

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4 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Hoosier.  Believe it or not, Travis does not consult with me on lineups.  Relax.

But are you suggesting that Ford is unfairly not giving a chance to Hankton?  Do you have anything other your pregame observations to back up your thoughts?  Didn’t think so.

You need to catch up.  Hankton has had two injuries this season.  The first was a leg injury.  The most recent a back injury.  On this second one, per Coach Ford, he was out for 2 to 3 weeks.  He has fallen behind due to being injured.  That is why he hasn't played.

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

You need to catch up.  Hankton has had two injuries this season.  The first was a leg injury.  The most recent a back injury.  On this second one, per Coach Ford, he was out for 2 to 3 weeks.  He has fallen behind due to being injured.  That is why he hasn't played.

Third will be a hamstring... fourth will be an ankle injury...

Again, other you watching a guy warm up with no pressure, no defense, not in a game ... you believe , when healthy, he will be a good stretch 4 for us?   Good stuff!

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2 hours ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Yet you ignore his assist numbers.. I think Yuri will increase his scoring in the years to come, but his true value is helping others to increase their scoring and controlling the pace of the game.

Not always. The other night we lost to UMass, this Board was upset.  Yuri had only 2 points and 3 assists, Bell had no points and French had only 5 points.  
 

https://www.google.com/search?q=slu+v+umass+box+score&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS777US777&oq=slu+v+umass&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59j0j69i59.5114j0j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11fnd0llwn;3;/g/11ckvf54fz;dt;fp;1;;

Now, I recall blame for the UMass game upon Ford, French and Bell but don’t recall anyone  blaming Yuri. Why?   

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37 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Not always. The other night we lost to UMass, this Board was upset.  Yuri had only 2 points and 3 assists, Bell had no points and French had only 5 points.  
 

https://www.google.com/search?q=slu+v+umass+box+score&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS777US777&oq=slu+v+umass&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59j0j69i59.5114j0j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11fnd0llwn;3;/g/11ckvf54fz;dt;fp;1;;

Now, I recall blame for the UMass game upon Ford, French and Bell but don’t recall anyone  blaming Yuri. Why?   

He’s a freshman. He’s a freshman and he’s number 1 in the nation  among freshmen in assists. He’s a freshman and he’s playing 35 minutes a game for 20+ win team. It’s unrealistic to expect him to be a complete all-around player at this point in his career. He will be a better player next year than he was this year, especially when his hands/wrists are back to 100%. Cut the kid some slack.

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2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Third will be a hamstring... fourth will be an ankle injury...

Again, other you watching a guy warm up with no pressure, no defense, not in a game ... you believe , when healthy, he will be a good stretch 4 for us?   Good stuff!

Your desire to see more injuries for Hankton by listing them is reprehensible. 

Do you even watch this team?  Can you name the players?  Do you go to any games?  Or do you just read some box scores then come to this forum to impart your infinite wisdom?

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Clock, you mentioned in one of your recent posts that the team needs to improve for next season. My answer to that is that you are currently seeing improvement in the way the kids play. Perkins is playing better and more consistently now than at the beginning of the season. Yuri, Jacobs, Bell, Hargrove, and Weaver, have likewise improved since the beginning of the season. Even Goodwin and French have gotten better. We have not seen enough of Diarra to judge how he is doing, and Hankton has not improved and I think it is likely he will not be around next year (I am talking at him taking a voluntary transfer out, particularly if they pass the no sit regulation). The last two active players Jimerson and Thatch, are unable to play for medical reasons, we will have to wait until next season to see how they manage.

I see no reason that the improvement we have seen in a lot of our players should not continue through the summer. It is clear in my mind that we will be a better team next year, perhaps very much of a better team. We may not become a National Championship team but we will be better than we are today. I am not worried about the Bills for next season., But remember, that is just my personal opinion.

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Clock, you mentioned in one of your recent posts that the team needs to improve for next season. My answer to that is that you are currently seeing improvement in the way the kids play. Perkins is playing better and more consistently now than at the beginning of the season. Yuri, Jacobs, Bell, Hargrove, and Weaver, have likewise improved since the beginning of the season. Even Goodwin and French have gotten better. We have not seen enough of Diarra to judge how he is doing, and Hankton has not improved and I think it is likely he will not be around next year (I am talking at him taking a voluntary transfer out, particularly if they pass the no sit regulation). The last two active players Jimerson and Thatch, are unable to play for medical reasons, we will have to wait until next season to see how they manage.

I see no reason that the improvement we have seen in a lot of our players should not continue through the summer. It is clear in my mind that we will be a better team next year, perhaps very much of a better team. We may not become a National Championship team but we will be better than we are today. I am not worried about the Bills for next season., But remember, that is just my personal opinion.

Old Guy.

Could not agree more.  Too many have taken for granted all that our Bills have achieved.   Last year was to be our year with a our veteran team but SLU's zealous Title IX created and pursued their own agenda..   Nonetheless, Coach Ford re-loaded with some higher risk grad transfers, we lost a transfer big before the season, then we lost another big - one of the most talented yet most-selfish, biggest head-cases in program history (which many apparently and inexplicably would welcome back) and still found a way to make the NCAA Tournament.   This year was to be our rebuilding year.  Two returning, talented Juniors (one that could score, rebound and has an incredible competitive motor though not the best shot or decision-making to run the offense and another who has elite power and strength around the basket though not a mid-range game or FT shooting) and a returning Sophomore who proved he be a defensive shut-down player with hopes that his high scoring prowess would return) and we fold in 2 more returning Sophomores (neither who played much or contributed much - and whom many thought might both transfer, who when they did play were described as "deer in a headlight", "weak" and "played without a clue" and we add in a group of newcomers:   a local JUCO and several true freshmen.  Some of our better posters who had seen these guys play repeatedly cautioned us that the local Frosh were talented but had a lot to learn, were not coached all that well prior to SLU and told us that starting may not happen right away and may not occur until his Junior year here at SLU.   Our other 2 Frosh were late additions, big athletic guys, projects:  one who did not play much/accomplish much in high school other than losing nearly 100 pounds and the other still recovering from a prior serious injury.

Did this group improve under Coach Ford?  Absolutely.   Remember when our lesser posters would say that Coach Ford could not develop players?   Sure, they ignored Bess, etc. but they also should be reminded that Jimerson missed every single shot of his in this year's exhibition but shortly thereafter leading our team such as  the Tulane game.   After both he and Big Three member Thatch stopped playing this year, Coach Ford developed one of the local Frosh - Yuri - who now runs our offense and plays 30 to 35 minutes per game - 12 assists v. VCU and the all-time Freshman assist record -- all for a guy who might now start until his Junior year - yeah, I would say that is player development.   And how about Perkins who went from not getting off the bench, who initially looked clueless on the court and who appeared to have never played defense - EVER - and yet he slowly became better, played more, shot more and has turned into possibly our best offensive weapon?  Yeah, that looks like player development.  And Jacobs?  Last year playing in less than half the games, averaging 2 minutes per game - and this year?   a starter all year and real contributor?  Yeah, more player development.  And how about the improvement by Goodwin this year?  

More development next year?  I sure hope and expect so.   In fact, I would be both quite disappointed and surprised if that did not happen.    I am not down on Yuri - no personal issues with him.   Similarly, I had not personal issues with Thatch last year.   Instead, just being consistent.   Both get a pass their Freshman years -  just to be a contributor your Freshman year is great -- Thatch last year as a defensive specialist primarily, this year with Yuri as an assist-first PG and this year, Bell, a role player offensively, rebounding and inside presence.   But just as I said last year, Thatch needed to up his game in the off-season (and he apparently did) to become an offensive threat and just as I expect of Yuri and Bell for next year - both to be more complete,  more all-around players.  Good teams have players who have more complete, all-around players.

 

 

 

 

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I only listed what other PG’s are scoring PPG nothing more.  Every one of them scores more than Collins.  Not many eclipse his APG.  To fully appreciate a PG you need to do math on the tangible numbers (ppg, APG, topg, steals) and then some intangibles like defense and game control.  Yuri will likely be the best SLU PG ever.  Still, he needs a pull-up jumper and better FT % going forward.  Anyone disagree?

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Javon Bess came into the gym every morning and hoisted 1,000 jumpers to get better.  I don’t recall anyone saying Ford was there for all that.  Maybe Ford was there initially, corrected his form, offered some pointers.  Maybe not.  I understood Bess’ improvement was all Bess.  What did Ford do?  I really don’t know.

What did Ford to to make Jimmrrson so effective?  What exactly did Ford do from the preseason to Tulane that lit Gibbys fire?  Why not do the same with Jacobs?

Did Ford develop Yuri or was it “you’re the only point guard on my roster, here’s the ball.  Go get ‘em.”  My contention is Yuri was always a point, he just needs instruction on what Ford wants.

Jacobs had nowhere to go but up.  And many bemoan good Jacobs vs. bad Jacobs.  I for one said Godwin’s game on offense needed improvement.  His mid-range is coming along; his FT shooting sucks.  What did Ford do there?

And when you answer that, answer why that mid-range lesson was not used on French.  French does the same stuff he did as a freshman.  Good?  Sure.  Could be expanded?  Sure.  And the FT woes are pitiful and an embarrassment.  That’s got NFL tight end written all over it.    
 

My hope is when all is said and done and 2019-20 is gone, Ford evaluates each guy and gives them summer homework.  Improve this by doing that.  We MUST plus up for next year because Umass, Duquesne, the Bonnies, St. Joes, Richmond, Geedubya and even Fordham return everyone —— as we do.  VCU and Dayton will be guard heavy.  Davidson has everyone back except JAG.  Duquesne, the Bonnies and Richmond are currently better than us in the standings.  Nothing is a given.

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16 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Yuri dominated the VCU game and I have no idea how many points he had without looking at the box score. I don't know exactly what that means other than I think he is doing well. 

I'm among the biggest Yuri fans on the board and he did dominate the VCU game and he did it without scoring 10 ppg. However, he isn't dishing 12 assists every game. What you said is true, so is what Taj and I believe Clock said. Like all frosh he's still got area's to develop. I'm sure he'd agree. Love to see him shoot the 3 more consistently and take 2-3 shots every game, and to see him have a more effective pull up jumper from 10-15 feet along with becoming a better free throw shooter. I'm betting over the course of the next 3 years those things and possibly more happen. I'd also say if he doesn't get better at any of those things and just builds upon his current strengths he'd be my pg going forward and I'd be estatic

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3 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Javon Bess came into the gym every morning and hoisted 1,000 jumpers to get better.  I don’t recall anyone saying Ford was there for all that.  Maybe Ford was there initially, corrected his form, offered some pointers.  Maybe not.  I understood Bess’ improvement was all Bess.  What did Ford do?  I really don’t know.

What did Ford to to make Jimmrrson so effective?  What exactly did Ford do from the preseason to Tulane that lit Gibbys fire?  Why not do the same with Jacobs?

Did Ford develop Yuri or was it “you’re the only point guard on my roster, here’s the ball.  Go get ‘em.”  My contention is Yuri was always a point, he just needs instruction on what Ford wants.

Jacobs had nowhere to go but up.  And many bemoan good Jacobs vs. bad Jacobs.  I for one said Godwin’s game on offense needed improvement.  His mid-range is coming along; his FT shooting sucks.  What did Ford do there?

And when you answer that, answer why that mid-range lesson was not used on French.  French does the same stuff he did as a freshman.  Good?  Sure.  Could be expanded?  Sure.  And the FT woes are pitiful and an embarrassment.  That’s got NFL tight end written all over it.    
 

My hope is when all is said and done and 2019-20 is gone, Ford evaluates each guy and gives them summer homework.  Improve this by doing that.  We MUST plus up for next year because Umass, Duquesne, the Bonnies, St. Joes, Richmond, Geedubya and even Fordham return everyone —— as we do.  VCU and Dayton will be guard heavy.  Davidson has everyone back except JAG.  Duquesne, the Bonnies and Richmond are currently better than us in the standings.  Nothing is a given.

No inside info but I guarantee you Ford gives them a summer homework list. I also guarantee he's worked plenty on Has' ability to shoot the ball more than4 feet. Imo development is 80% player, 20% coaching

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31 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I only listed what other PG’s are scoring PPG nothing more.  Every one of them scores more than Collins.  Not many eclipse his APG.  To fully appreciate a PG you need to do math on the tangible numbers (ppg, APG, topg, steals) and then some intangibles like defense and game control.  Yuri will likely be the best SLU PG ever.  Still, he needs a pull-up jumper and better FT % going forward.  Anyone disagree?

We can play this game of "what he needs to improve" with every freshman/transfer that comes through.  My assumption is that every talented player will improve their game over four years.  Isn't it yours?

Some guys dramatically improve on their weaknesses (Bess improving his 3pt shot and free throw shooting), some guys get better at things that were already strengths (Goodwin's rebounding, scoring inside). 

I have no idea what Yuri's improvement will look like.  He might become a better finisher around the basket instead of developing a mid-range jumper.  He may plateau as a scorer and then jump to double figures as a junior after the Big Three graduate.  There's a lot of possibilities.  But one thing I'm not going to do is set timelines and arbitrary performance goals and then ding him if he doesn't meet them.  Seems like an exercise in frustration to me.

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