Thatch to Redshirt in 2019 - 2020 Season

[wgstl]

40 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Ford, who is obviously closer and more knowledgeable in this matter than any one of us, can say anything he wants or hopes for That's performance next season. I could also say that Elon Musk will have a thriving colony in Mars before the end of this decade. Are these things going to happen? We have to wait and see.

If he’s as close to the situation like you said, then why would be just be Relying on hope. He wouldn’t say he’s so confident in his return if he didn’t know something, that would be beyond stupid on his part 

[cheeseman]

11 minutes ago, wgstl said:

If he’s close to the situation like you said, then why would be just be Relying on hope. He wouldn’t say he’s so confident in his return if he didn’t know something, that would be beyond stupid on his part 

Think Cardinals

[wgstl]

17 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Think Cardinals

i dont follow 

[Sheltiedave]

You accentuate the positive until the negative happens, aka reality slaps you in the face.

Remember me posting that a certain Vashon player was interested in SLU...and he went Georgetown that day? Reality slaps you in the face. 

Here is a medical study. It is cold water, and a slap in the face. 
This citation is

Brain(2003), 126, 413 - 423

The Spectrum of Exercise Tolerance in Mitochondrial Myopathies, a Study of 40 Patients

While we don’t know how Fred has responded to the steroid/vitamin/amino acid treatment, and how effective it is at keeping his exercise tolerance high, and for how long it can keep his exercise tolerance high, there are things we do know.

Without the medication treatment, after the MM expressed, Fred was a ghost of the player he was late in the season last year. He lost his jets, tried to fight through it, and had to completely shut down, when meant the level of MM mutation in his leg muscles was prevalent and acute. This puts him down at the low end of the inverse square sloped charts for oxygen utilization.

Even with a dialed in medical management, he still is going to be on the slope for VO2max impairment. The impairment may now be minor, it may be mitigated, it can be managed, but it is lurking, and the harder he drives himself, the deeper he slides down the slope.

Medical prognosis is an art. They won’t say he is at 100%. MDs will say at this andro dosage of 2mg/ day, Fred has successfully run 3 12 minute periods over the course of 2 hours, approximate 2 miles each time, had 99%, 99%, and 98% blood oxygenation at completion, and is medically cleared to resume playing, pending weekly medical monitoring...or something to that effect.

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, wgstl said:

i dont follow 

The Cardinals are a prime example of an organization using happy talk with regards to an injury and then it often turns out that the player ends up with a major surgery.  After you hear that stuff for years you tend to take comments with a grain of salt.  I hope Fred is able to be his old self again.

[wgstl]

11 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

The Cardinals are a prime example of an organization using happy talk with regards to an injury and then it often turns out that the player ends up with a major surgery.  After you hear that stuff for years you tend to take comments with a grain of salt.  I hope Fred is able to be his old self again.

Or manchester city who does the opposite. 

[BIG BILL FAN]

15 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

You accentuate the positive until the negative happens, aka reality slaps you in the face.

Remember me posting that a certain Vashon player was interested in SLU...and he went Georgetown that day? Reality slaps you in the face. 

Here is a medical study. It is cold water, and a slap in the face. 
https://watermark.silverchair.com/awg028.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAlowggJWBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggJHMIICQwIBADCCAjwGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMFQXQJYiWqV1DUCThAgEQgIICDS78JW4LUaw-pYXbE_QxuNpJPwDTAvgzOge8t1NzAbWpmp_zLUFPh6zVhP6utfKNC6r9pUmcPqZnQN6dK8TVRVxdBdbNLJjv9RgLc4eILRb-S_NMZIfe4-Zye1CKyy3MMdlC0fURNoraQkLqfxDIuk_ZzSqDSSHIXhdtgrXsOqmMlCtg7RDq4SuNLz9088g6ZcwzKO9zZNdGhtwX-_1x2Q-32OS4Lv-L5Hdu5IpRbnwZSFIEo7SaEA2qtvI8SSuEQT_ZDHW-kXZtsQMcGBhvuJAkmtv5Fl5vsuYHPhRY7oi9vVogwENnOPi4HBQFWAdxwAzNv5K8iwBPz6P6Xe6UuUpZZft5t0FkgWpZ-aqT2qaHnbRzFdyc10k_ySaj4j92ORyAyO9xbnPZsUUlgu0WRGYrqaObWkd0FQX42RYaF1R-abPnO_TKl2TaNMEl0YTjTf--N1Av9eZOdkPyO59uwHRXy0OrPTlv4JPkHQm3eOHEXC9WFWcwNI5OXfHPVnBh4HmmwFLPMWwNzlDNJcd9zP3UeVdhq5tDhKecrruVtereRrvn7eSdCwy3LpB-CNmOhmt2OfDSHOXL-4Z-3FqvSu5saDmodkdIjsn5BGtcNrhMuBVvICeSijf8_1iAxbHnyiPz1Ua2cEWx5DLGwXSo91qmdtPUsqtXKfNXgk0pfNDmw1eoOiQ-MUwwFzE3Yg

While we don’t know how Fred has responded to the steroid treatment, and how effective it is at keeping his exercise tolerance high, and for how long it can keep his exercise tolerance high, there are things we do know.

Without the medication treatment, after the MM expressed, Fred was a ghost of the player he was late in the season last year. He lost his jets, tried to fight through it, and had to completely shut down, when meant the level of MM mutation in his leg muscles was prevalent and acute. This puts him down at the low end of the inverse square sloped charts for oxygen utilization.

Even with a dialed in medical management, he still is going to be on the slope for VO2max impairment. The impairment may now be minor, it may be mitigated, it can be managed, but it is lurking, and the harder he drives himself, the deeper he slides down the slope.

Medical prognosis is an art. They won’t say he is at 100%. MDs will say at this andro dosage of 2mg/ day, Fred has successfully run 3 12 minute periods over the course of 2 hours, approximate 2 miles each time, had 99%, 99%, and 98% blood oxygenation at completion, and is medically cleared to resume playing, pending weekly medical monitoring...or something to that effect.

you are a loser.....just stop playing Doctor......

[glazedandconfused]

The keyboard cardiologists on here are quickly rising up my personal power rankings of unintentionally funny subsections of the site.  I know there are some doctors on here, but Sheltie posted a small story just to say that people will be optimistic but realistic until they are 100% sure. Very funny stuff

It's both wrong and not helpful for you to speculate about FT's health. Looking at you @Sheltiedave @Old guy

1. Fred's health should remain as private as possible just as it should for any human. Obviously that isn't 100% possible given his role on the team, but to dig and dive recklessly, will start rumors and misunderstandings about a young man's health.

2. It literally helps no one. No one on here is making decisions for the team. No one is making decisions for Fred Thatch. It's just a bunch of fans. The speculation does not serve any positive goal. A board *possibly* knowing a little more about FT's situation doesn't help the team. It doesn't help recruiting. It's just gossip. 

3. Trust what the Team tells you or not, they are more in the know than anyone on this board. There are doctors working with Fred and, when appropriate, we will get updates on Fred's situation.

 

 

 

[Sheltiedave]

BBF, one of my best friends from days gone past has MM, has the same class of it, and is a man possessed about people who also have it.

We all are interested in it, because one of our best players has it...for the rest of his life.

We talk about everything on this forum. Maybe you should volunteer to be a moderator, so you can sift the wheat from the chaff..or hit ignore.

As far as speculation, there is no need to speculate. Ford and his staff are actively recruiting, and offering schollies for this coming season, when we are full up. That is both insurance, and acknowledging they anticipate the loss of players. The staff has to have contingency options.

[BIG BILL FAN]

25 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

BBF, one of my best friends from days gone past has MM, has the same class of it, and is a man possessed about people who also have it.

We all are interested in it, because one of our best players has it...for the rest of his life.

We talk about everything on this forum. Maybe you should volunteer to be a moderator, so you can sift the wheat from the chaff..or hit ignore.

As far as speculation, there is no need to speculate. Ford and his staff are actively recruiting, and offering schollies for this coming season, when we are full up. That is both insurance, and acknowledging they anticipate the loss of players. The staff has to have contingency options.

hey nitwit, Fred Thatch isn't the only possibility for not being here next season....any coach will tell you that they never stop recruiting.....as for Thatch, your speculating on his future health is disgraceful....maybe you could submit your medical profile, and we could speculate on your future....the last thing Fred, his family, and friends want to see is idle speculation on a public message board...

[Sheltiedave]

BBF, please feel free to quote my speculation on Fred’s future health.

I have stated that Fred has MM, he will never be cured because it is a genetic condition, and it will influence his physical condition.

Ford is doing the right thing by saying Fred is 100% ready to go next year. This is coach speak for we have you on schollie, we have your back, and if you can go medically, you are on the team.

We all support Fred, and wish him the best.

Sorry for not being a nitwit, but I too realize that there is a better chance someone else leaves than Fred falling to a general schollie after a medical setback...but as you put it, that would be a disgraceful speculation on a public forum.

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

You accentuate the positive until the negative happens, aka reality slaps you in the face.

Remember me posting that a certain Vashon player was interested in SLU...and he went Georgetown that day? Reality slaps you in the face. 

Here is a medical study. It is cold water, and a slap in the face. 
https://watermark.silverchair.com/awg028.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAlowggJWBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggJHMIICQwIBADCCAjwGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMFQXQJYiWqV1DUCThAgEQgIICDS78JW4LUaw-pYXbE_QxuNpJPwDTAvgzOge8t1NzAbWpmp_zLUFPh6zVhP6utfKNC6r9pUmcPqZnQN6dK8TVRVxdBdbNLJjv9RgLc4eILRb-S_NMZIfe4-Zye1CKyy3MMdlC0fURNoraQkLqfxDIuk_ZzSqDSSHIXhdtgrXsOqmMlCtg7RDq4SuNLz9088g6ZcwzKO9zZNdGhtwX-_1x2Q-32OS4Lv-L5Hdu5IpRbnwZSFIEo7SaEA2qtvI8SSuEQT_ZDHW-kXZtsQMcGBhvuJAkmtv5Fl5vsuYHPhRY7oi9vVogwENnOPi4HBQFWAdxwAzNv5K8iwBPz6P6Xe6UuUpZZft5t0FkgWpZ-aqT2qaHnbRzFdyc10k_ySaj4j92ORyAyO9xbnPZsUUlgu0WRGYrqaObWkd0FQX42RYaF1R-abPnO_TKl2TaNMEl0YTjTf--N1Av9eZOdkPyO59uwHRXy0OrPTlv4JPkHQm3eOHEXC9WFWcwNI5OXfHPVnBh4HmmwFLPMWwNzlDNJcd9zP3UeVdhq5tDhKecrruVtereRrvn7eSdCwy3LpB-CNmOhmt2OfDSHOXL-4Z-3FqvSu5saDmodkdIjsn5BGtcNrhMuBVvICeSijf8_1iAxbHnyiPz1Ua2cEWx5DLGwXSo91qmdtPUsqtXKfNXgk0pfNDmw1eoOiQ-MUwwFzE3Yg

While we don’t know how Fred has responded to the steroid treatment, and how effective it is at keeping his exercise tolerance high, and for how long it can keep his exercise tolerance high, there are things we do know.

Without the medication treatment, after the MM expressed, Fred was a ghost of the player he was late in the season last year. He lost his jets, tried to fight through it, and had to completely shut down, when meant the level of MM mutation in his leg muscles was prevalent and acute. This puts him down at the low end of the inverse square sloped charts for oxygen utilization.

Even with a dialed in medical management, he still is going to be on the slope for VO2max impairment. The impairment may now be minor, it may be mitigated, it can be managed, but it is lurking, and the harder he drives himself, the deeper he slides down the slope.

Medical prognosis is an art. They won’t say he is at 100%. MDs will say at this andro dosage of 2mg/ day, Fred has successfully run 3 12 minute periods over the course of 2 hours, approximate 2 miles each time, had 99%, 99%, and 98% blood oxygenation at completion, and is medically cleared to resume playing, pending weekly medical monitoring...or something to that effect.

 

53 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

BBF, one of my best friends from days gone past has MM, has the same class of it, and is a man possessed about people who also have it.

We all are interested in it, because one of our best players has it...for the rest of his life.

We talk about everything on this forum. Maybe you should volunteer to be a moderator, so you can sift the wheat from the chaff..or hit ignore.

As far as speculation, there is no need to speculate. Ford and his staff are actively recruiting, and offering schollies for this coming season, when we are full up. That is both insurance, and acknowledging they anticipate the loss of players. The staff has to have contingency options.

Good reality based posts, both of them. We will see next year.

[Clock_Tower]

What do they say?  Opinions:  everyone has one.   Yes, everyone is free to have their own opinion.  And yes, some guys (Coach Ford) are closer to Fred Thatch than others. And no, I am not saying Coach Ford or anyone with direct knowledge is lying about anything.   Hope... optimism...  Redshirt this year and keep your options open.  Hope... optimism... new medicines... new treatment... additional time...

But it is hard to imagine that this medical condition will improve with time.  Publicly state you look forward to Fred coming back next year being 100%.   No distractions this year as we look to win the next 2 games, then the A-10 Tourney and then make it to the Sweet 16.  Dismiss the statements of Coach Ford?  No.   And yes, usually those closer to the situation (Coach Ford) generally have greater insight and knowledge.  At the same time, we are discussing a permanent, progressive disease.   And at some point, opinions must be based upon science and medicine. - reality. I have heard Coach Ford that he hopes and believes Fred Thatch will be back soon... will be back next year... at 100% but I have not heard him say, Good news, after meeting with his Doctors, it appears that Fred had things under control, that the new treatments have worked, that Fred has been medically cleared and that he will be back next year at 100% 

[dennis_w]

I think it is in poor taste to "read up" on a disease and then draw conclusions about the course a disease will take for a billiken player. There is just no reason, if someone has studied fred's medical records and then throws the information on a message without his express permission it is disgraceful. if one makes speculations without access to these records it is also disgraceful. just my opinion

[Clock_Tower]

15 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

I think it is in poor taste to "read up" on a disease and then draw conclusions about the course a disease will take for a billiken player. There is just no reason, if someone has studied fred's medical records and then throws the information on a message without his express permission it is disgraceful. if one makes speculations without access to these records it is also disgraceful. just my opinion

Sorry if a dose of reality bothers you.  Go back to enjoying your blue koolaid.

[glazedandconfused]

3 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Sorry if a dose of reality bothers you.  Go back to enjoying your blue koolaid.

Out of reactions but bad post for not even coming close to understanding what Dennis was saying haha

[dennis_w]

2 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Sorry if a dose of reality bothers you.  Go back to enjoying your blue koolaid.

a dose of reality doesnt bother me at all, watching grown men on a public forum bandy about a young man' medical condition with wild speculations about dire consequences i find distasteful. a find people that do that pitiful

[Clock_Tower]

Just now, dennis_w said:

a dose of reality doesnt bother me at all, watching grown men on a public forum bandy about a young man' medical condition with wild speculations about dire consequences i find distasteful. a find people that do that pitiful

Dennis.   Please post the wild speculations and dire consequences you referring to.  None by me.

[billikenbill]

5 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

You accentuate the positive until the negative happens, aka reality slaps you in the face.

Remember me posting that a certain Vashon player was interested in SLU...and he went Georgetown that day? Reality slaps you in the face. 

Here is a medical study. It is cold water, and a slap in the face. 
This citation is

Brain(2003), 126, 413 - 423

The Spectrum of Exercise Tolerance in Mitochondrial Myopathies, a Study of 40 Patients

While we don’t know how Fred has responded to the steroid/vitamin/amino acid treatment, and how effective it is at keeping his exercise tolerance high, and for how long it can keep his exercise tolerance high, there are things we do know.

Without the medication treatment, after the MM expressed, Fred was a ghost of the player he was late in the season last year. He lost his jets, tried to fight through it, and had to completely shut down, when meant the level of MM mutation in his leg muscles was prevalent and acute. This puts him down at the low end of the inverse square sloped charts for oxygen utilization.

Even with a dialed in medical management, he still is going to be on the slope for VO2max impairment. The impairment may now be minor, it may be mitigated, it can be managed, but it is lurking, and the harder he drives himself, the deeper he slides down the slope.

Medical prognosis is an art. They won’t say he is at 100%. MDs will say at this andro dosage of 2mg/ day, Fred has successfully run 3 12 minute periods over the course of 2 hours, approximate 2 miles each time, had 99%, 99%, and 98% blood oxygenation at completion, and is medically cleared to resume playing, pending weekly medical monitoring...or something to that effect.

That’s an interesting read, helped by having a working knowledge of the terminology. I look at it as a description of a pathological process rather than any intrusion into Fred’s life. It’s the type of discussion you hear when you work in exercise science, trying to understand the physiology and see how you can improve systems that aren’t functioning as intended.

Wishing Fred all the best as he continues treatment.

[BIG BILL FAN]

2 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Dennis.   Please post the wild speculations and dire consequences you referring to.  None by me.

Just stop, you are making a fool of yourself..

[Sheltiedave]

Let’s clear up a few things.

Neither Old Man not I have any access to Fred’s medical records, nor have we sought any information in his case beyond what has been published for all to see. Please stop with the Hipaa violation smoke.

Second, realize that SLU is going to do right with Fred. The most important matter is him walking off campus after four years with his degree. Whether he stars for the next three years, is limited in his play, or has to go on a general schollie for health reasons, his SLU degree is all important. Over his life, basketball will be what he played in college. The 40 odd classes help create his life.

Third, there are people from all walks of life on this board. A family household that works in retail is going to have far different conversations than a union craft family, and ditto for a medical/scientist family, or a lawyer/politician household. Some people’s’ disgraceful and disgusting limit on conversations is other folks’ run of the mill.

 

[glazedandconfused]

1 minute ago, Sheltiedave said:

Let’s clear up a few things.

Neither Old Man not I have any access to Fred’s medical records, nor have we sought any information in his case beyond what has been published for all to see. Please stop with the Hipaa violation smoke.

Second, realize that SLU is going to do right with Fred. The most important matter is him walking off campus after four years with his degree. Whether he stars for the next three years, is limited in his play, or has to go on a general schollie for health reasons, his SLU degree is all important. Over his life, basketball will be what he played in college. The 40 odd classes help create his life.

Third, there are people from all walks of life on this board. A family household that works in retail is going to have far different conversations than a union craft family, and ditto for a medical/scientist family, or a lawyer/politician household. Some people’s’ disgraceful and disgusting limit on conversations is other folks’ run of the mill.

 

****STRAW MAN ALERT ****

Thank you for agreeing that you have no access to any of Fred's medical records and no direct info on his health. No one is saying you shouldn't use medical terminology. It's the fact that you are speculating to a bunch of strangers about a young man's health without even knowing him or his situation.

 

If that is run of the mill for you then you are a GOOD person.

 

[dennis_w]

2 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

****STRAW MAN ALERT ****

Thank you for agreeing that you have no access to any of Fred's medical records and no direct info on his health. No one is saying you shouldn't use medical terminology. It's the fact that you are speculating to a bunch of strangers about a young man's health without even knowing him or his situation.

 

If that is run of the mill for you then you are a GOOD person.

 

Well said glazed. I have been a medical professional for nearly five decades. medical terminology is not offensive to me at all. What you said in your last sentence is spot on.

[Billiken3]

I am astonished people have this much time on their hands to “read up” on a genetic disorder and apply it to a current athlete. If our athletes read this board, then why would you forecast their future. If you want to say Jimmy Bell is going to be a stud when he is a Senior, fine. But to project someone’s medical future is just irresponsible.  

[Quality Is Job 1]

Man, tomorrow's game day can't come soon enough!