GDT: Saint Joseph’s

[slufanskip]

7 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I understand your points but whether we were late in closing in on him or we just stayed back the end result is the same.  The last 3 he hit were beyond the arc but nobody had a hand in his face.  

I named one play where French imo was a little off. However, but if you ask me to overplay (and getting a hand in someone's face 4 feet behind the arc when they have the ability to beat you off the dribble) is overplaying is the wrong move. That far out I'd always err to too much space for the shooter especially when you have a guy with the ability to find the open man once he's beat you. It's very hard to extend an in your face m2m 4 feet beyond the arc. There's just too much space. Plus they were setting a lot of screens to free him up so the defender had to be aware of that. The guy had an incredible night. Kudos. 

And … I'm not saying we were perfect but we weren't just giving up open looks at the arc as stated. Our D was better than the results would suggest

[cheeseman]

Just now, slufanskip said:

I named one play where French imo was a little off. However, but if you ask me to overplay (and getting a hand in someone's face 4 feet behind the arc when they have the ability to beat you off the dribble) is overplaying is the wrong move. That far out I'd always err to too much space for the shooter especially when you have a guy with the ability to find the open man once he's beat you. It's very hard to extend an in your face m2m 4 feet beyond the arc. There's just too much space. Plus they were setting a lot of screens to free him up so the defender had to be aware of that. The guy had an incredible night. Kudos. 

And … I'm not saying we were perfect but we weren't just giving up open looks at the arc as stated. Our D was better than the results would suggest

Fair enough.  I guess I would rather have had him score by dribbling by  and getting a 2 rather than hitting a 3.  Maybe some help defense could enter in to it.  Like I said your points are fair enough.

[RUBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said:

6 bid A10 next year

This a a legit possibility.  With all of nearly all of their contributors returning SLU, Ricmond, and Duq should be expecting NCAA appearances.  Dayton has huge losses with Toppin, Mikesell, & Landers, but has enough talent returning in Crutcher, Watson & Chatman that they should still make it.  VCU will need some guys to develop or they may be a bubble team.  They're is similar to Dayton losing Evans, Jenkins, Simms & Vann, but returning MSS & Bones Hyland.  The difference is that Dayton can drop off quite a bit and still be an NCAA team.  Not the case for VCU.  Ditto for Rhody losing Langevine & Dowtin but returning Fatts & Martin.  That's probably your top 6 and all should have NCAA hopes.  Add in Bona who return everyone except Ikpeze and you have a potential 7th NCAA team.

I don't see Davidson at that level especially losing Gudmundsson.  Probably another year away for UMass, but Mitchell & East are a great foundation.  I don't think any of the other teams are in the picture, but I also think a lot will be better or about the same as this year.  Hard to see any big drops (outside of Dayton who will drop & likely still be in the NCAAs) because there aren't a ton of seniors who are major contributors.  After the 2020-21 season it will be a different story when a lot of teams lose key seniors.

[slufanskip]

6 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Fair enough.  I guess I would rather have had him score by dribbling by  and getting a 2 rather than hitting a 3.  Maybe some help defense could enter in to it.  Like I said your points are fair enough.

I can see either way but the odds of him continuing to hit those types of 3's is imo much less than them scoring easy 2's as either he has an open drive or someone else is open (and remember he had 6 assists). In addition even after that game he shoots under 33% from 3. 

[ACE]

38 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

They were optimistic based on having all our pieces.  We don't have two huge pieces and the free throw shooting has actually regressed.  And we're still 17-5.  That's incredible.

Agreed, it is impressive to have this record considering we are missing our best defender and best shooter. But my point is, that your perception of this team heading into the season was a lot worse than most. "If we finish a couple of games above .500 we've had a good season."

Considering where your head was at leading into the season, it's easy to see why you would consider this one of the most "unlikely" seasons.  Those who had a lot more optimism about the team's fortunes in 2019-20 are likely a bit less shocked.

With all that being said, as we saw in Philly this past week, the injuries have left us very little margin for error in most games. Bottom line, just keep finding a way to win. It has been a fun season, albeit at times frustrating. I'm still trying to get over the Dayton loss. 

[GBL_Bills]

30 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

This a a legit possibility.  With all of nearly all of their contributors returning SLU, Ricmond, and Duq should be expecting NCAA appearances.  Dayton has huge losses with Toppin, Mikesell, & Landers, but has enough talent returning in Crutcher, Watson & Chatman that they should still make it.  VCU will need some guys to develop or they may be a bubble team.  They're is similar to Dayton losing Evans, Jenkins, Simms & Vann, but returning MSS & Bones Hyland.  The difference is that Dayton can drop off quite a bit and still be an NCAA team.  Not the case for VCU.  Ditto for Rhody losing Langevine & Dowtin but returning Fatts & Martin.  That's probably your top 6 and all should have NCAA hopes.  Add in Bona who return everyone except Ikpeze and you have a potential 7th NCAA team.

I don't see Davidson at that level especially losing Gudmundsson.  Probably another year away for UMass, but Mitchell & East are a great foundation.  I don't think any of the other teams are in the picture, but I also think a lot will be better or about the same as this year.  Hard to see any big drops (outside of Dayton who will drop & likely still be in the NCAAs) because there aren't a ton of seniors who are major contributors.  After the 2020-21 season it will be a different story when a lot of teams lose key seniors.

Yeah I was only being slightly facetious. I mean, the A10 did it in 2014. Don't see why we can't do it again

[SShoe]

34 minutes ago, ACE said:

Agreed, it is impressive to have this record considering we are missing our best defender and best shooter. But my point is, that your perception of this team heading into the season was a lot worse than most. "If we finish a couple of games above .500 we've had a good season."

Considering where your head was at leading into the season, it's easy to see why you would consider this one of the most "unlikely" seasons.  Those who had a lot more optimism about the team's fortunes in 2019-20 are likely a bit less shocked.

With all that being said, as we saw in Philly this past week, the injuries have left us very little margin for error in most games. Bottom line, just keep finding a way to win. It has been a fun season, albeit at times frustrating. I'm still trying to get over the Dayton loss. 

I'm not shocked by how this season has turned out, but I am a little surprised.  I am, on the whole, very happy with it given the injuries we've had.  In most seasons, losing FT and GJ--both of whom I thought would be top 5 players this year--would end the season.  Hard not to be very pumped about the future as well as the present.

[CBFan]

3 hours ago, wgstl said:

take it or leave it, Perkins finishes the season as our leading scorer. 

Take it, and if that happens the Bills are probably dancing as long as everyone else plays like they should.

[CBFan]

2 hours ago, slufanskip said:

However, if you said we lose Jimerson who would be averaging 10 ppg on 40% from 3, plus Fred's contribution would be nil, how many of those predictions would have gone way down. I can tell you mine would have and I'm usually overly optimistic. 

Agree 100 percent.

Part of my 25-6 prediction was based on what I thought SLU could get out of Jimerson based on the board posts about his shooting and the defense of Thatch.

Knowing those two would not play then I would have predicted a winning non conference and conference records around 20 wins.

[Clock_Tower]

3 hours ago, ACE said:

Agreed, it is impressive to have this record considering we are missing our best defender and best shooter. But my point is, that your perception of this team heading into the season was a lot worse than most. "If we finish a couple of games above .500 we've had a good season."

Considering where your head was at leading into the season, it's easy to see why you would consider this one of the most "unlikely" seasons.  Those who had a lot more optimism about the team's fortunes in 2019-20 are likely a bit less shocked.

With all that being said, as we saw in Philly this past week, the injuries have left us very little margin for error in most games. Bottom line, just keep finding a way to win. It has been a fun season, albeit at times frustrating. I'm still trying to get over the Dayton loss. 

French and Goodwin are playing as I expected.

Perkins.   I expected 12 to 15 per night from the start.   His lack of playing time early was a surprise (though in hindsight I understand he wasn't ready).  Lately, though, his play the past few games (33 at St. Joe) are better than expected.

Jimerson being out for the season is totally unexpected.   And his 10 ppg would be alot more by now if healthy. I definitely counted on him.

Fred Thatch.  I did not expect more than 8 or 10 ppg - though I sure did expect him to play 32 mpg and to be our defensive stopper. 

Jacobs.   Wasn't sure he would even contribute so even though he has disappeared in games and stretches of games this year, he still has exceeded my expectations.

Hankton - Like Jacobs, I wasn't sure he would contribute, then he did the first several games but has not since.

Yuri.   Much better than I expected at acclimating to the college game, running the offense and making assists.  With that said, I expected the PG position to produce more points per game and expected Goodwin to play the PG half the time and for Jimerson and Thatch to log alot of minutes.

Bell/Diarra.   Probably what I expected.

 

 

 

 

 

[Old guy]

Agree with Clock. Things usually do not happen the way we expect them to go earlier in the season. There are always events, injuries, etc... that do not fit our original thoughts about how this season would play. However, what is clear with the Bills is that as some of the player expectations go unmet for whatever reasons, there have been other players rising above expectations to fill the gaps. I am very satisfied with the Bills this season and do  not think it is appropriate at this time to abandon my predicted 25 - 6 record by the end of conference play. I will have to admit I was wrong once we lose 7 games, but not before. So, Go Bills! Just win and win.

[Clock_Tower]

5 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Bell isn't ready, Hargrove isn't ready, our backup shooting guard is 5'10, our best two players are a liability at the free throw line and yet ... we're 17-5.  The most unlikely season in Billiken history continues ....

I get that comments are made about the head coach when things don't go as expected, but when do we seriously praise Coach Ford for this season!

Ask Dana Ford and MO State  (10-13 record, 4-6 conference and 3 straight recent losses) how tough it is mold new faces, even athletic ones with prior experience,  into a cohesive team.  And even though Perkins had all this offensive talent, he barely played the first 10 games of the year and yet not a hint of real dis-satisfaction, desire to quit, talk of transferring...)  And we have seen what Hargrove and Weaver can do - though playing time is allocated instead on defense and team concepts - and no signs of frustration with Hargrove or Weaver either.   

But to enter the season with 2 proven players entering their Junior year, and then losing his Big Three returning Sophomore and replacing basically the entire squad except for 2 Freshman who did not play or contribute last year. Throw on top of this that his 2 returning Juniors are also responsible for our being dead last (out of 353 D1 teams) in FT shooting percentage - and yet we continue to win and win and win.  And yet we are 17-5?   We nearly pull of the upset of Dayton.  We beat KSU and BC on the road.

And yet we must read, from mental midgets, that Coach doesn't start the right players and that our margin of victory is not good enough?   

[wgstl]

9 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

 

Ask Dana Ford and MO State  (10-13 record, 4-6 conference and 3 straight recent losses) how tough it is mold new faces, even athletic ones with prior experience,  into a cohesive team.  And even though Perkins had all this offensive talent, he barely played the first 10 games of the year and yet not a hint of real dis-satisfaction, desire to quit, talk of transferring...)  And we have seen what Hargrove and Weaver can do - though playing time is allocated instead on defense and team concepts - and no signs of frustration with Hargrove or Weaver either.   

I could see Mo state putting together a run in the MVC tournament

 

 

[jimbofive]

9 hours ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

we won't have one, but we will have two of the best rebounders in the country, one of the best shooters in the country, and one of the best ball handlers and passers in the country, along with some pretty good depth...

Towel, pllzzzzzzzzz

[bauman]

On 2/3/2020 at 6:24 AM, CBFan said:

Wrong again, Hargrove and Strickland will both have trouble getting on the court next season if Thatch and Jimerson return.  Hargrove will not play in front of Perkins, Thatch, Jimerson, Collins, Jacobs it is just a numbers issue.  When Perkins graduates or if Thatch cannot return next season then Hargrove will get more time.  When defense is needed it is going to be Thatch and do you really want Hargrove over Jimerson who hits 40 percent from the 3.  I want Hargrove out there and that will come his Junior and Senior seasons and will be a great transition from Perkins to Hargrove.

Bell will see playing time because of his size and he is a good substitute for French and you know why, because he starts and learns and gets better.

A MINOR mis-statement that a few have made on this and other threads and I know that you might just be rounding off a stat.  My man, Jimerson was actually hitting at 43% from beyond the arc, which has to be in the top 95% of 3 pt shooters in the country.  That really is hard, if not impossible, to replace. I can't wait to see him next year as a FRESHMAN!

Sorry I know this is not really appropriate for this GDT but put it here in light of CBFan's post.

[ACE]

On 2/3/2020 at 12:28 PM, CBFan said:

Agree 100 percent.

Part of my 25-6 prediction was based on what I thought SLU could get out of Jimerson based on the board posts about his shooting and the defense of Thatch.

Knowing those two would not play then I would have predicted a winning non conference and conference records around 20 wins.

Your prediction was pretty spot on about what this team was capable of if GJ and FT had stayed healthy. Of course, with them going down, it's natural to adjust expectations going forward. There were a lot of people, 3-star among the most vocal, who were a lot more pessimistic about the team's outlook heading into the year. Ford really did an outstanding job assembling a well-rounded roster (when healthy) and getting so many new players to be important contributors.

[Cowboy]

8 minutes ago, ACE said:

Your prediction was pretty spot on about what this team was capable of if GJ and FT had stayed healthy. Of course, with them going down, it's natural to adjust expectations going forward. There were a lot of people, 3-star among the most vocal, who were a lot more pessimistic about the team's outlook heading into the year. Ford really did an outstanding job assembling a well-rounded roster (when healthy) and getting so many new players to be important contributors.

-this might be redundant to what you are saying but I think the whole Team Blue mantra is important to getting contributions from so many new players, they are in it for each other which can only help

[Fraz42]

33 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-this might be redundant to what you are saying but I think the whole Team Blue mantra is important to getting contributions from so many new players, they are in it for each other which can only help

I just might get Team Blue tatted

[3star_recruit]

59 minutes ago, ACE said:

Your prediction was pretty spot on about what this team was capable of if GJ and FT had stayed healthy. Of course, with them going down, it's natural to adjust expectations going forward. There were a lot of people, 3-star among the most vocal, who were a lot more pessimistic about the team's outlook heading into the year. Ford really did an outstanding job assembling a well-rounded roster (when healthy) and getting so many new players to be important contributors.

I am ecstatic at what this team has accomplished.  Look at all the superlatives - Goodwin and French are having 1st and 2nd team all-conference seasons despite historically bad free throw shooting; Yuri is on track to average the most assists in 30 years; Jacobs has improved the greatest amount from freshman to sophomore year of any Billiken I can remember; and we're giving up roughly the same amount of points as last year despite a ton of minutes from new D-1 players.  I tip my cap to those posters who thought all those outcomes were likely.