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Everyone will say we lost because of the FTs.  But we also lost because, up double digits, we allowed them to hit 6 consecutive mostly unchallenged threes.

Ford’s teams don’t deny the three shot well.  It has been a problem of his since before he came to SLU and it crushed us tonight.

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1 minute ago, ARon said:

Everyone will say we lost because of the FTs.  But we also lost because, up double digits, we allowed them to hit 6 consecutive mostly unchallenged threes.

Ford’s teams don’t deny the three shot well.  It has been a problem of his since before he came to SLU and it crushed us tonight.

And if the refs called the obvious goaltending we win in regulation

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Who the hell is teaching these guys how to shoot a free throw. Goodwin is off 3 inches to where his follow through is. I surprised he even makes his pathetic 50% from the line. 
 

My freakin grade school coach would have had a stroke if we hit 50%!!!!!!

This is dealing beyond belief. 
 

Does anyone wonder why we shoot 40 free throws in a game????

Im surprised they don’t make us shoot a 100 in a game. We would never win!!

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1 hour ago, ARon said:

Everyone will say we lost because of the FTs.  But we also lost because, up double digits, we allowed them to hit 6 consecutive mostly unchallenged threes.

Ford’s teams don’t deny the three shot well.  It has been a problem of his since before he came to SLU and it crushed us tonight.

This.  Except I think it was a reasonable strategy to make Dayton beat us from 3.  They’re the #1 2 point FG team in the nation.   We tried to take away their biggest strength and force them to beat us somewhere else.  It worked for the 1st half and then they got hot in the 2nd half.

This game reminded me a lot of the NCAA game against Michigan State.  Similar strategy in that we were going to make them (especially that one guy, Kieth Appling(?)) beat us from outside.  It almost worked but they hit one too many 3s.

 

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56 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

We did.  We had 7 buckets in the paint, where Obi was stationed, after he got his 4th at 2:54 left in 2nd half.  He was backing off.

We went down low, but no attempt of iso, or strictly taking it to him 

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The free throw percentage has been discussed numerous times, and by now we know how this plays out but it doesn’t make it any easier to accept.  I can deal with a low percentage, but when you see numerous attempts not draw iron, miss a foot to one side, or fall a foot in front of the rim it gets a little ludicrous.  In a close game you can pick on any number of plays that weren’t made.  As Spoon once said, “free throws don’t win all the games, but they win the close games”.  We can pick the strategy apart all we want, but this was a great effort against a great team.  This was a game we should have won and deserved to win.  Does anyone close to the team know if there is some reason French and JGood won’t at least try a different approach? IT CANNOT GET ANY WORSE!  If they are afraid it may look strange or be embarrassed to try something——YOU JUST MISSED EVERYTHING!  How much more embarrassing is a different approach?  I don’t care if they make them in practice!  ITS NOT WORKING!  We missed 17 free throws.  We missed another opportunity to gain a very important win.  9 year olds make a better percentage!  Both of these guys could be averaging close to 20 points a game if they were just decent.  This could be the one thing that keeps this team from making the tournament.  Making the tournament helps with recruiting, helps fill the seats, and brings in revenue.  Bringing in revenue keeps your job and gets you a raise.  It’s a free throw.  

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2 hours ago, FanMan said:

Who the hell is teaching these guys how to shoot a free throw. Goodwin is off 3 inches to where his follow through is. I surprised he even makes his pathetic 50% from the line. 
 

My freakin grade school coach would have had a stroke if we hit 50%!!!!!!

This is dealing beyond belief. 
 

Does anyone wonder why we shoot 40 free throws in a game????

Im surprised they don’t make us shoot a 100 in a game. We would never win!!

I agree. 
 

I feel like Goodwin and French (especially French) are mental cases at the foul line at this point. I would be done “coaching” on this and tell the guys just shoot the f-ing ball. French missed the rim 3 times... 3 air balls from the foul line... at home!! Has that happened before?? and also one of his makes was off the backboard. I legit can say, I don’t know how thats possible. He might as well throw it like a football and hope somebody on our team gets the rebound.

I heard somebody outside the stadium after the game bragging how this was such a great game to be on ESPN 2 for us... and I thought.. ok, yeah great for us for pushing a top ranked team to OT.. but really all i could think about was how many people saw French shoot from the foul line tonight and thought “wtf?!”...

and why are we taking Hargrove out on offensive possessions late in the game. Pretty sure Dayton figured out we can’t make foul shots.. and he can.. if you want to play smart on the offense/defense scheme, we should have had him on O, not D... ridiculous. You could pose the same argument for Bell and French at that point if you wanted to.. if you want to play the odds.. i just don’t understand what fords strategy was beyond the 7 minute mark in the second half..

Unrelated to foul shots-

I blame ford for the loss. 100%. Our guys played great. But I could go into several scenarios where he tried to micromanage the team at the wrong times, and it cost the game. And several times where he didn’t coach them and it cost us. (Like the last play...)

I think we have a very well discipline, smart team (credit to Ford) but he lets his emotions micro manage the game and it disrupts what those guys got going on the floor.

Finally.. I’m ready for more Hargrove. Not necessarily minutes. But take him off his leash. He lets Perkins shoot line drives from 3 and shoot awkward jumpers with no regret, but Hargrove looks terrified to miss an assignment on D or take a ballsy shot. Let him go. I think he can handle it. If he’s going to get minutes, then he needs the blessing from the sideline to be confident.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We've known for a few years now that free throws are going to cost us some games. Last night was one of those games where any individual play or stat would have changed the outcome. I understand faulting free throws because that's the one area that only we control but at this point, I'm inclined to blame other aspects. The players and coaches know that they have to be a notch better in other areas of the game and that they have to make every little play because they know we're gonna leave free points at the line. We stopped defending for a few minutes last night and that was the difference for me

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2 hours ago, 73Billiken said:

Well, we certainly don't want a lot of new posters...............

I didn’t say that. I’m just letting new posters know that it’s a conversation that’s been beaten to death on this board. It’s reaching Big East or A10/MVC level of dead horseness. I love new Billiken blood but anytime I recommend this board, I tell them to observe for awhile and get an idea of the quirks of the board. It a unique community. 

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The thread is titled FREE THROWS.  The topic had been beaten to death by 11 posts since it was started.  That being said, as a fan since the late 80’s , and having witnessed the issues of bad free throw shooting the past couple of years I am sure it’s been discussed over and over again.  There is always going to be a handful of plays made or not made in any game that can make a difference, but for all of the things we did or didn’t do, the fact is we didn’t go 7-17 at the line.  We went 20-37 and missed 17 (not counting the front end of 1&1’s we could have had a opportunity to make).  In a thread titled FREE THROWS, we now know that missed free throws aren’t supposed to be discussed.

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Missed Free Throws is this team's Achilles Heel, has cost SLU 2 wins over ranked teams in Auburn and Dayton.  Ignoring the obvious is talking around the elephant in the middle of the room.

The real question is what can be done about the problem.  The issue is largely confined to SLU's 2 best players.

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Embrace the horror ..... or recruit better, skilled players.  French, Collins and Goodwin combined 11-for-25.  That's 44%.  The three guys who mostly have the ball.  The rest, throwing Hightower out, were 9-for-11 for 82%.  Conversely, Crutcher, Toppin and Landers were 12-for-14 for 86%.  I suspect and expect Collins will get better and he iced two for the lead with 6 ticks to go.  But Goodwin and French are more football players and don't have the finesse for the skilled parts of the game.  Desire?  Yes.  Work ethic?  Yes.  Never quit.  Yes.  Shooting?  Nope.

 

 

 

 

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French, Goodwin, and even Collins all need to be better.  All 3 could go down as some of the best players in the modern era by the time they graduate.  French and Goodwin are costing themselves a opportunity to be first team A10 or even higher accolades.  You would think they would try anything at this point.  Maybe they are, but when they miss they miss badly. It’s one thing to have it draw iron and pop out, circle a couple times and spin out...it’s another to completely miss or be off center by a foot.  Free throw shooting is one of the first things we did in elementary school.  How can someone who spends hours in the gym miss so badly?  

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Guys we shot our season average last night. While we went 20/37 technically, on two of those Misses we got the rebound and put back, so even if we hit both, same outcome. So we went 20/35-57%. We know who we are so FTs don’t even phase me anymore.

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5 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Embrace the horror ..... or recruit better, skilled players.  French, Collins and Goodwin combined 11-for-25.  That's 44%.  The three guys who mostly have the ball.  The rest, throwing Hightower out, were 9-for-11 for 82%.  Conversely, Crutcher, Toppin and Landers were 12-for-14 for 86%.  I suspect and expect Collins will get better and he iced two for the lead with 6 ticks to go.  But Goodwin and French are more football players and don't have the finesse for the skilled parts of the game.  Desire?  Yes.  Work ethic?  Yes.  Never quit.  Yes.  Shooting?  Nope.

 

 

 

 

Great post Taj perfectly said.

I wish you could have been there last night the entire student section was present and in to it. The crowd was incredible totally in to it standing several up several times getting on the officials it was a site to see and I hope for more crowds like last night.

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