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GDT: Arch Baron Cup


johnbj14

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8 minutes ago, Brighton said:

Saint Louis Billikens Basketball (1914-present): Where free throw shooting goes to die.

Meanwhile, Ford is 0-5 against ranked opponents since being here. It pains me to say this, but he could be Barry Odom on the hardwood.

Since you wanna go that route, Odom had back to back veteran led teams that underachieved, this years ford team that had played 3 of those 5 are with babies. 

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1 hour ago, moytoy12 said:

Watched the replay of that shot a few times and wonder if TJ should have left his man to contest.  Sure, his man would have been open, but not sure there would have been enough time for Crutcher to pass and the open guy to get the shot off.  Tough split second decision for anyone, especially a freshman. 

Yes, should have doubled the ball just bc it was Crutcher.  

But then if his man drills a 3, we’d be killing him for being clueless defensively.  I don’t think it was Watson or Toppin so let that guy try to bury us...not Crutcher 

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18 minutes ago, Brighton said:

Saint Louis Billikens Basketball (1914-present): Where free throw shooting goes to die.

Meanwhile, Ford is 0-5 against ranked opponents since being here. It pains me to say this, but he could be Barry Odom on the hardwood.

You are a Johnny come lately. This team’s free throw shooting are an aberration, not the norm.
Regarding Ford, he has done a great job building this program.  This is the best team he has had and it is top 50. When we hit top 25 caliber, then let’s start talking about his record against top 25 teams. 

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24 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

Yes, should have doubled the ball just bc it was Crutcher.  

But then if his man drills a 3, we’d be killing him for being clueless defensively.  I don’t think it was Watson or Toppin so let that guy try to bury us...not Crutcher 

My biggest issue with the last play was that we didn't stop the ball. That's a golden rule. Crutcher went unimpeded 3/4 down the court. With 5 seconds left, you have to harass the ball-handler and try to make him give it up. Crutcher was also the one guy we don't want taking that last shot, so the focus should have been on marking him immediately after a made basket.  

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Im less content with this result than I expected to be. But I think that’s a good thing, as it feels like the fan base is starting to get fed up with being an underdog all the time. We expect to win, as we should. I have a couple of bigger takeaways that sound negative, but I think set the stage for what we need to do better next season to take the next step as a program:

-In modern basketball, you can’t be a good offensive team and not take 3s. Our lack of spacing and ball movement in the second half and overtime was painful. We’re not good enough at scoring inside to not take 3s. We absolutely can not afford to be in a position where our team can’t space the floor at all after this year. 

-Goodwin and French are fantastic. All-conference players. Billiken legends. I think Goodwin will pass Marque Perry and Tommie Liddell as my all-time favorite Billiken. Nonetheless, neither of them should be a #1 option offensively. Goodwin can’t successfully create his own shot against top teams. French is a good passer and ball-handler, but not an efficient scorer out of the post. Going into next season, we need to decrease our reliance on these guys as scorers. Their best contribution will be in all the other areas of the game.

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Watched a replay. Last play you can't be to aggressive because you dont want to foul. Jacob's got knocked off  balance on a back pick by Toppin. The kid made a big shot.

The three minute stretch of made 3 pointers. First was made because for the first time all game Jordan wasn't able to fight through a screen. Two made by Toppins with Bell playing off him. One Bell and French both were guarding Toppin and left Landers open and one French didn't close out on Watson. Nothing to do with coaching.

We played the 6th ranked team to the last shot. I think Dayton is better than Auburn.

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5 minutes ago, slusam said:

Watched a replay. Last play you can't be to aggressive because you dont want to foul. Jacob's got knocked off  balance on a back pick by Toppin. The kid made a big shot.

The three minute stretch of made 3 pointers. First was made because for the first time all game Jordan wasn't able to fight through a screen. Two made by Toppins with Bell playing off him. One Bell and French both were guarding Toppin and left Landers open and one French didn't close out on Watson. Nothing to do with coaching.

We played the 6th ranked team to the last shot. I think Dayton is better than Auburn.

Question is, why do we have French and Bell 20 feet from the basket guarding guards?  I get Toppin out there shooting.  And I know we're down the Gibber, Thatchie Poo and HankySpanky.  I just wasn't seeing world-beating offensive schemes from Dayton out there that should have created such mismatches on defense for the Bills.  Jimmy Bell just shouldn't have been in the game right then.  It was an absolute perfect storm that allowed Dayton back into the game but I thought we could have closed the door with a little more standup man in those 3-4 minutes.

To those that think I continue to complain - I thought Ford played things perfectly short of that stretch and relying a bit too much on French for offense late in the game.  And obviously the Bills played their hearts out.  Woulda coulda shoulda.  Done harping.  GO BILLS.

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56 minutes ago, Brighton said:

Saint Louis Billikens Basketball (1914-present): Where free throw shooting goes to die.

Meanwhile, Ford is 0-5 against ranked opponents since being here. It pains me to say this, but he could be Barry Odom on the hardwood.

I heavily criticized certain decisions Ford made but this is the dumbest Thing ever. SLU is 1000% better than when he took over. We will get over the hump, it’s just frustrating along the way 

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33 minutes ago, Bizziken said:

My biggest issue with the last play was that we didn't stop the ball. That's a golden rule. Crutcher went unimpeded 3/4 down the court. With 5 seconds left, you have to harass the ball-handler and try to make him give it up. Crutcher was also the one guy we don't want taking that last shot, so the focus should have been on marking him immediately after a made basket.  

I get you don’t want to foul but i don’t know why jacobs didn’t pick him up until after half court 

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2 hours ago, glazedandconfused said:

It’s pretty safe to assume Ford wanted us (or atleast was OK with us) sagging off the 3 pt shooters as we were doing it most of the game and he wasn’t screaming at players or taking them out. It’s much more likely than the players just doing the opposite of what Ford wanted and him just standing quietly watching it.

 

He took a gamble and let them get open looks and they hit shots.

I worked late last night and again today so I haven't seen the entire game, but I know they needed 1 point. I'll take French and Bell under the basket for the defensive board and a player taking a 3 point shot at the buzzer. From what I'm reading that seems to be what happened. Maybe he was wide open, I don't know why but people are saying Jacobs was caught by a screen. People want to say we should have done this or that. That's easy after the fact. You're also not taking into account that if you do something different and despite the brilliant basketball minds we have on the board, none of you know what you're strategy would have produced. 

I try to look at a game overall. Picking out little moments after the fact and claiming a strategy was wrong is a poor way to look at things unless you have a crystal ball and know what you're strategy would have produced. I'll assume we couldn't foul as they would have been in the bonus. 6 seconds is plenty of time to get a decent shot off. In the end they took a shot where they normally hit less than 40%. They hit it. 

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2 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I worked late last night and again today so I haven't seen the entire game, but I know they needed 1 point. I'll take French and Bell under the basket for the defensive board and a player taking a 3 point shot at the buzzer. From what I'm reading that seems to be what happened. Maybe he was wide open, I don't know why but people are saying Jacobs was caught by a screen. People want to say we should have done this or that. That's easy after the fact. You're also not taking into account that if you do something different and despite the brilliant basketball minds we have on the board, none of you know what you're strategy would have produced. 

I try to look at a game overall. Picking out little moments after the fact and claiming a strategy was wrong is a poor way to look at things unless you have a crystal ball and know what you're strategy would have produced. I'll assume we couldn't foul as they would have been in the bonus. 6 seconds is plenty of time to get a decent shot off. In the end they took a shot where they normally hit less than 40%. They hit it. 

yea i wasn’t talking about the last play...that was a good shot. no qualms here. i was talking about the 4 minute stretch where they hit 6 uncontested 3s in a row

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3 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I worked late last night and again today so I haven't seen the entire game, but I know they needed 1 point. I'll take French and Bell under the basket for the defensive board and a player taking a 3 point shot at the buzzer. From what I'm reading that seems to be what happened. Maybe he was wide open, I don't know why but people are saying Jacobs was caught by a screen. People want to say we should have done this or that. That's easy after the fact. You're also not taking into account that if you do something different and despite the brilliant basketball minds we have on the board, none of you know what you're strategy would have produced. 

I try to look at a game overall. Picking out little moments after the fact and claiming a strategy was wrong is a poor way to look at things unless you have a crystal ball and know what you're strategy would have produced. I'll assume we couldn't foul as they would have been in the bonus. 6 seconds is plenty of time to get a decent shot off. In the end they took a shot where they normally hit less than 40%. They hit it. 

Exactly. With the guys on their team 5 seconds is plenty of time to get a good look at a layup to win. I'll take a partially contested off balance 3 over almost any other shot. 

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3 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Hitting 6 out of 6 3's down the stretch is a statistical anomaly.  Dayton won the game on a 30 foot shot at the horn.

+ no one has goofed on how close we came to a decade defining miracle ending on THJ heave at the end. Smart $$ says we will see him hit a half ending heave or two during his career here. He had a nose for what was needed @ the end.

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3 minutes ago, almaman said:

+ no one has goofed on how close we came to a decade defining miracle ending on THJ heave at the end. Smart $$ says we will see him hit a half ending heave or two during his career here. He had a nose for what was needed @ the end.

Only .1 left. It wouldn't of counted. But I like the try. 

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14 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

yea i wasn’t talking about the last play...that was a good shot. no qualms here. i was talking about the 4 minute stretch where they hit 6 uncontested 3s in a row

I haven't seen it. But I saw their stats and if they shot 6 in a row they were shooting pretty poorly up until then, so I don't know if I'd have reacted until probably 3 in a row. And honestly teams rarely make 6 in a row, so I'm not sure I drastically change at that point. Maybe I'll have a more informed opinion after I see it tonight. 

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2 minutes ago, almaman said:

he was blindsided by backing into that dude right before the shot. SVU seemed to enjoy those blind roadblock screens last night.

In the first half Obi set 2 moving screens besides the one he got called for. He took an extra qtr step and stuck his hip out as the defender was going by. One of them was on Yuri's 2nd foul where the guy hit the shot from the elbow. 

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4 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Only .1 left. It wouldn't of counted. But I like the try. 

Ya know I looked at the replay several times. Our scorekeeper could have given us 0.8. That’s when the ball passed through the net, but it wouldn’t have mattered. I agree if the heave was good it would have been called off as with 0.1 you can’t catch and shoot. At 0.8 you can. 

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3 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

In the first half Obi set 2 moving screens besides the one he got called for. He took an extra qtr step and stuck his hip out as the defender was going by. One of them was on Yuri's 2nd foul where the guy hit the shot from the elbow. 

yeah, there were at least one or two times that toppin was just spinning around in the backcourt, trying to set whatever kind of screen he could, certainly not set, or even a walking screen.  but nothing for me to get in a tizzy about.  i yelled at the refs very little last night.  thought they were mostly a non-factor, as they should be.

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22 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Here is a great view of the last shot. Jacobs back pedals right into Toppin (with French right behind Toppin) and Crutcher just nails it. 

 

 

That's poorly played by French. Jacobs has to know the screen is there ( French should have been yelling, and Jacobs should have known there was a good possibility) and it's clear he doesn't. I don't care whether we switch off screens normally or not, there isn't time for him to pass to French's man and get a shot off. French should have closed much quicker on the shooter and he possibly blocks it if he plays it correctly. 

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13 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

That's poorly played by French. Jacobs has to know the screen is there and it's clear he doesn't. I don't care whether we switch off screens normally or not, there isn't time for him to pass to French's man and get a shot off. French should have closed much quicker on the shooter and he possibly blocks it if he plays it correctly. 

agreed.  Jacobs had no idea, and if he did, he wouldnt have bounced off like that leaving the shooter that open. 

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