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1 minute ago, dennis_w said:

i revised history? not seeing that, u said he couldnt make it past the 1st media timeout. you were wrong. enough said. i didnt call you out you called me out. i never mentioned your name. give it up man. jimmy bell is not heavy footed troll and never has been

Bell was not well suited for the running and gunning we were doing the first four games. He's perfect for halfcourt bully ball.

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In a dedicated press D, He would not make it past the first media timeout then, at the beginning of the season.

If we did play a 40 minutes of hell D, and if he were inserted into Foreman’s slot at the front of the press, he probably still wouldn’t make it to the media timeout.

When fatigue is an issue for just about everyone besides Goodwin in a normal 40 minute conference game, when Jacobs and Hargrove get beat three times on back door cuts, and Collins and French need rest breaks on the bench, Ford needs to finesse some aspects of his game plans.

Look at yesterday. Ford tweaked how the guards challenged their smurfs up high, running them into French and Bell on the high screen cuts, and played the off defender to the ball side in the paint frequently, and we made a team in the top 10 itn for fewest turnovers toss 15 away - without pressing.

As our freshmen pick up the recognition, positioning and communications skills needed to improve their defense, we will continue to see improvement.

 

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I’m 100% ok with Bell/French having to try and guard Toppin. That means on the other end one of those two is going to get to rough around with (an seemingly injured) Toppin and get him in foul trouble or throw him off his game. 

If Obi goes crazy from outside, so be it. Not many teams are beating Dayton if Obi is hot from long distance.

 

**All of this may be nothing if he’s out for a couple games.

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That game was good for the soul.

The last few games had me pretty nervous about the rest of the season.

This game eased some of those worries.

The team still has some issues and will probably lose a game or two because of cold shooting but after watching the clinic they put on Richmond no wins will be a surprise.

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HP ---- and others who raised the question ---- I define my five- or three-man teams by the guys who contribute regularly.  It's tough because contributions can sometimes be hard to objectively measure.  By this time of the season, I can see trends where you start to know and understand who the contributors are.  To me, this is readily pointed out in per game averages.  Last night, the five-man team was Francis, Gilyard, Golden, Cayo and Sherrod.  In my evaluation, which is purely subjective and gets blown many times by guys having "career nights" against us, I did not see Burton, Wojcik or Gustavson being players that, when forced into action, will do anything more than add an occasional basket, extra fouls, or in any way be a decent replacement for the guys they sub in for.  

I see Duquesne the same way.  Weathers, Carry, Hughes, Austin and Dunn-Martin with an occasional spurt from Steele.  Right now, Dambrot is starting Lamar Norman Jr. in order to bring Dunn-Martin off the bench because i think he knows just how limited the Dukes are.  

The Bonnies only go as far a Lofton, Osunniyi and Welch take them.  A three-man team.  Ditto Rhode Island with Dowtin, Langevine and Russell. In those game, I don't want to get bit by a Bobby Planutis, a Jacob Toppin, a Mehki Long, or an Alejandro Vasquez.  Marcus bartleydid once score 24 for SLU.  ONCE.  I believe George Mason was duly surprised in that one.

I think we are very deep just by the fact we lost Jimerson and Thatch and are still 14 and 3.  Perkins, Jacobs, Collins and even hargrove have stepped up.  Richmond was near the bottom last year without Sherrod.  I wonder what would happen if they lost Gilyard?  Look what happen when the Bonnies lost Osunniyi.

Dayton has players.  Toppin.  Crutcher.  Watson.  To a lesser degree Mikesell and Landers.  Chatman is also good.  I'd gladly trade any of them out for Matos and Cohill.

VCU has Evans, Santos-Silva, Jenkins and a bevvy of gunners on the bench who, if any get hot, can destroy anyone.  Early reviews onBonesHyland and KeShawn Curry are good.

Davidson has Gudmundsson and Grady.  Collins is coming on.  The rest?  

La Salle has Deas and Croswell.  Phiri can be scary at times ditto Beatty.  

Mitchell, East and Weeks are all up-and-coming for Umass.  Plus they have Pierre.  Youth hurts them right now.

Geedubya has Battle and Potter although Potter was a senior going against our freshman Collins.  

I hope that helps.

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Davidson has Gudmundsson and Grady.  Collins is coming on.  The rest? 

Wouldn’t be surprised to see a very similar comment on another team’s message board about us. 

“SLU has Goodwin and French. Collins is coming on. The rest?”

Just a factor of Perkins, Bell, Hargrove, Jacobs not making names for themselves yet. Although that’s changing quickly for Perkins averaging 15ppg in the last 8 games including 12ppg in conference play. 

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5 minutes ago, Compton said:

Wouldn’t be surprised to see a very similar comment on another team’s message board about us. 

“SLU has Goodwin and French. Collins is coming on. The rest?”

Just a factor of Perkins, Bell, Hargrove, Jacobs not making names for themselves yet. Although that’s changing quickly for Perkins averaging 15ppg in the last 8 games including 12ppg in conference play. 

Was thinking the exact same thing.  

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23 minutes ago, Compton said:

Wouldn’t be surprised to see a very similar comment on another team’s message board about us. 

“SLU has Goodwin and French. Collins is coming on. The rest?”

Just a factor of Perkins, Bell, Hargrove, Jacobs not making names for themselves yet. Although that’s changing quickly for Perkins averaging 15ppg in the last 8 games including 12ppg in conference play. 

I agree with you. We would be conceived as a two man team.  In my book we are an 8 man team.  

If a coach believes enough in a player’s contribution to give him double digit minutes, you are “on the team” in my opinion. For me you can contribute and not have it show up on the box score.  But every poster can have his/her own opinion. 

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41 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I agree with you. We would be conceived as a two man team.  In my book we are an 8 man team.  

If a coach believes enough in a player’s contribution to give him double digit minutes, you are “on the team” in my opinion. For me you can contribute and not have it show up on the box score.  But every poster can have his/her own opinion. 

If you're averaging more than 3 ppg and more than 12 min a game, you're a player I take seriously.

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5 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If you're averaging more than 3 ppg and more than 12 min a game, you're a player take seriously.

Yes.  Bell, even at  4.2 ppg over 13.5 mpg, certainly meets my definition a contributing player. He is on my definition of 'the team'.

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Just finished watching the replay a second time then looked through the stats and, wow, the second half was an impressive half of basketball, especially from the 14 min. mark on. The stats break down like this:

The first 9 possessions resulted in 6 points on 2-5 shooting, 2-4 from the line, with 2 turnovers. Pts./possession was low at .67. Turnover rate high at 22.2%

The next 18 possessions led up to the point where Richmond fouled on each possession. Bills scored 25 points 12-15 shooting, no FT attempts, and 4 turnovers. PPP was a stellar 1.39. The unusual thing during that run was the turnover rate stayed high at 22.2%.

The final 8 possessions saw only 1 missed FG attempt, 12-14 from the foul line with no turnovers. PPP was 1.5. Final shooting stats were 14-21 from the floor and 14-18 from the stripe, just outstanding offense when we weren't turning it over.

Second half turnover rate dropped artificially to 17.1% as the late possessions were limited to just a throw-in before being fouled. Final ppp was an outstanding 1.17.

One other interesting thing was the throw-in against full-court pressure where all 5 Billikens started the possession standing out of bounds. I've never heard of this but from the broadcast, it apparently showed up a month or so ago and it will be interesting to see how the use of it evolves over time.

 

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I can't judge my team .... I am a fan and will always tend to lean towards the pro-SLU side of those tracks plus I know my team better than any other so there would be a bias that would certainly shine through.   

Do you want to have to play against Nick Sherrod or would you prefer Matt Grace?  Hell, Nathan Cayo or Matt Grace?  Amadi Ipkeze or Osun Osunniyi?  By three-star's definition, Ipkeze is a "player" at 16.1 mpg and 4.5 ppg.  Not in my book.  Ipkeze in and Osunniyi out is advantage SLU in my book.  My concern in that game will be making sure we don't turn Jared English or Justin Winston into stars like we did Duquesne' Tydus Verhoeven a few years back.  That year, Verhoeven scored 100 total points in 32 games played .... but dropped 21 on us in a loss at Duquesne ...and was never heard from again.

As to "if a coach believes in you," what if a coach has no choice?  I am sure that, if given the option, Bob McKillop is not starting Bates Jones for his 7 and 8 Davidson Wildcats.  Did Travis Ford believe in Aaron Hines?  Or did he have no other viable choice?  I would have forced Aaron Hines to beat me every night.  Didn't that happen?  How many times did Aaron have the ball with an expiring shot clock.  That's how I'd have worked it too.  But Aaron Hines was a player at 28.5 mpg and 6.4 ppg.  Feel free to disagree.  I know i do.

I still believe somewhat in a formula for team success.  The passing/scoring when needed point guard.  The no conscience scoring two guard.  The do it all small forward.  The bruising rebounder/enforcer 4 and the dominating center.  There is the microwave sixth man.  A defensive stopper.  And other role players known as the bench.  I know this is somewhat archaic but that's my foundation.  College is a guards game, you can win with good guards (see Davidson and VCU and Villanova).  

Things will happen in the course of a game you can't plan for.  Verhoeven for prime example.  But we shut down two of Richmond's five starters and limited Golden to ten in what became a cakewalk on the road.  What really scared me going into Richmond was doing what we did only to have Jake Wojcik go six-for-six from three.  Used to see that from guys like Brad Relaford at Xavier and Shawn Haughn at Dayton.  Most times I think it works but then Joprdan Gaithers will one shot at the buzzer and its a winning three.  

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18 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

In a dedicated press D, He would not make it past the first media timeout then, at the beginning of the season.

If we did play a 40 minutes of hell D, and if he were inserted into Foreman’s slot at the front of the press, he probably still wouldn’t make it to the media timeout.

When fatigue is an issue for just about everyone besides Goodwin in a normal 40 minute conference game, when Jacobs and Hargrove get beat three times on back door cuts, and Collins and French need rest breaks on the bench, Ford needs to finesse some aspects of his game plans.

Look at yesterday. Ford tweaked how the guards challenged their smurfs up high, running them into French and Bell on the high screen cuts, and played the off defender to the ball side in the paint frequently, and we made a team in the top 10 itn for fewest turnovers toss 15 away - without pressing.

As our freshmen pick up the recognition, positioning and communications skills needed to improve their defense, we will continue to see improvement.

 

Foreman could not play 40 minutes of hell either.  
And without Fred and Gibson, we we are no longer deep.  We went from 10 to 8 players and of the 8, several are one dimensional. 
 

All of which, together with our record and observations such as yours above of Ford’s adjustments, make the coaching job of Ford even more impressive

And BTW, the preseason pick for best team in Missouri (MO State) is now sporting a record of 8-9 after another double digit loss and Mizzou is now 9-6 with conference record of 1-2. 
 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

The final 8 possessions saw only 1 missed FG attempt, 12-14 from the foul line with no turnovers. PPP was 1.5. Final shooting stats were 14-21 from the floor and 14-18 from the stripe, just outstanding offense when we weren't turning it over.

 

Should be noted that the 1 missted FG attempt in the final 8 possessions was Perkins tossing up an end of shot clock 3 pointer when the game was already over and we were letting the clock run out.  Not exactly a normal FG attempt by any means.

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Just now, wgstl said:

Time to start talking POY for Goodwin.  He currently sits top 5 in both PPG and rebounds.  If this holds, I think that could do it for him. 

I feel like Toppin is already anointed.  Far and away the best player on the best team.  

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2 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

I feel like Toppin is already anointed.  Far and away the best player on the best team.  

Jgood needs to close the ppg gap, which he has started to.  If hes just 1 or 2 off and has almost 4 or 5 more boards per game I think that will be enough.  Like you said,  It'll be tough to convince voters otherwise, they seem to have given it to Toppin early. 

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38 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

Just finished watching the replay a second time

 

-if you want to watch a third time you could count the times the analyst said "Bob" when he finished his point - but I appreciate them and Richmond as it seems like our games there are always on tv because it is already being locally broadcast and the feed gets picked up in StL (I'm not saying just FSMW as I believe ch11 did a couple but not lately)

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2 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Jgood needs to close the ppg gap, which he has started to.  If hes just 1 or 2 off and has almost 4 or 5 more boards per game I think that will be enough.  Like you said,  It'll be tough to convince voters otherwise, they seem to have given it to Toppin early. 

Toppin will win POY and he fully deserves it.  He is averaging almost 20 PPG and is shooting 63% from the field (71.4% from 2) 33% from 3 and 70% from the line. He's just a significantly better player than anyone else in the A10.

However, JGood has a legit chance at First Team A-10... if he keeps his numbers where they are at and SLU finishes top 4....he'll probably make it.

Next year is the year Goodwin will make a run at A10 POY...and could easily be pre-season POY. 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Jgood needs to close the ppg gap, which he has started to.  If hes just 1 or 2 off and has almost 4 or 5 more boards per game I think that will be enough.  Like you said,  It'll be tough to convince voters otherwise, they seem to have given it to Toppin early. 

Only way Goodwin wins POY over Toppin is if Goodwin continues to play well, averaging 20/10 the rest of season AND Toppin gets kicked out of school.

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53 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I can't judge my team .... I am a fan and will always tend to lean towards the pro-SLU side of those tracks plus I know my team better than any other so there would be a bias that would certainly shine through.   

Do you want to have to play against Nick Sherrod or would you prefer Matt Grace?  Hell, Nathan Cayo or Matt Grace?  Amadi Ipkeze or Osun Osunniyi?  By three-star's definition, Ipkeze is a "player" at 16.1 mpg and 4.5 ppg.  Not in my book.  Ipkeze in and Osunniyi out is advantage SLU in my book.  My concern in that game will be making sure we don't turn Jared English or Justin Winston into stars like we did Duquesne' Tydus Verhoeven a few years back.  That year, Verhoeven scored 100 total points in 32 games played .... but dropped 21 on us in a loss at Duquesne ...and was never heard from again.

As to "if a coach believes in you," what if a coach has no choice?  I am sure that, if given the option, Bob McKillop is not starting Bates Jones for his 7 and 8 Davidson Wildcats.  Did Travis Ford believe in Aaron Hines?  Or did he have no other viable choice?  I would have forced Aaron Hines to beat me every night.  Didn't that happen?  How many times did Aaron have the ball with an expiring shot clock.  That's how I'd have worked it too.  But Aaron Hines was a player at 28.5 mpg and 6.4 ppg.  Feel free to disagree.  I know i do.

I still believe somewhat in a formula for team success.  The passing/scoring when needed point guard.  The no conscience scoring two guard.  The do it all small forward.  The bruising rebounder/enforcer 4 and the dominating center.  There is the microwave sixth man.  A defensive stopper.  And other role players known as the bench.  I know this is somewhat archaic but that's my foundation.  College is a guards game, you can win with good guards (see Davidson and VCU and Villanova).  

Things will happen in the course of a game you can't plan for.  Verhoeven for prime example.  But we shut down two of Richmond's five starters and limited Golden to ten in what became a cakewalk on the road.  What really scared me going into Richmond was doing what we did only to have Jake Wojcik go six-for-six from three.  Used to see that from guys like Brad Relaford at Xavier and Shawn Haughn at Dayton.  Most times I think it works but then Joprdan Gaithers will one shot at the buzzer and its a winning three.  

Whether a player is as good as the starter he's replacing and whether that player is to be taken seriously is two different things.  This is the A-10.  There aren't any all-conference caliber bigs coming off the bench.  But 4.5 ppg 4 rpg from a reserve big is definitely someone to be taken seriously.

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19 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

Toppin will win POY and he fully deserves it.  He is averaging almost 20 PPG and is shooting 63% from the field (71.4% from 2) 33% from 3 and 70% from the line. He's just a significantly better player than anyone else in the A10.

However, JGood has a legit chance at First Team A-10... if he keeps his numbers where they are at and SLU finishes top 4....he'll probably make it.

Next year is the year Goodwin will make a run at A10 POY...and could easily be pre-season POY. 

 

 

Not only does JGood have a legit chance at First Team A-10, if the season ended today he would undoubtedly be First-Team.  Based on production, there are not five better players than him in the conference.

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5 dunks from 4 different Billikens yesterday.  And we didn't even get any from Hargrove or Perkins, and we know they can throw down with extreme prejudice.

Guarantee we've never had 4 different guys dunk in a game before.  A Billikens team has never had athletes like this.

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18 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Not only does JGood have a legit chance at First Team A-10, if the season ended today he would undoubtedly be First-Team.  Based on production, there are not five better players than him in the conference.

Agreed. 

My First team as of now first 3 seem to be the "locks" (to the extent you can have locks with 14 games left: 

Obi Toppin

Fatts Russell

Jordan Goodwin

Marcus Weathers

Jacob Gilyard

2nd team:

Blake Francis

Kellan Grady

Ryan Daly

Kyle Lofton

Marcus Santos Silva 

 

Think Hasahn could easily jump into 2nd team all conference with a solid rest of season.

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