Free Throw Woes

[cheeseman]

7 hours ago, Spoonball18 said:

I'm not too worried about setting up the body of the thought in paragraph style when it's a freaking topic about horrible free throw shooting.  If you prefer, you are more than welcome to read it, repost it with the correct paragraph style, and correct any grammatical errors so it is more pleasing to your eye.  This is 2020.  This is the day and age where kids and young adults need a safe space from mean words.  They don't know how to read or write in cursive, can't drive a manual transmission, don't know what a pay phone is, can't do math without a calculator, don't know how to spell without spellcheck, and can't dial a rotary dial phone.  This is my boycott.  Block text.

With all due respect - I wonder if you know how to hitch a buggy up with the horse?  My point is the things you listed as things kids can not do today are a result of those things not being a part of daily life any more.  Now FT is so talking about that is logical.

[Cowboy]

9 hours ago, Spoonball18 said:

Here's the sad truth.  THIS TOPIC IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY SO PEOPLE NEED TO GET OVER IT AND ACCEPT THAT IT WILL BE A DISCUSSION.  We are not a average FT shooting team.  We are not just a bad FT shooting team, WE ARE THE WORST.  You can't get any worse than the worst.  This has cost us games.  This is going to cost us more games, and possibly a NCAA tournament bid.  We should have at least 2 more wins against teams that would clearly have us in the bracketology already.  This team has no margin for error when you can't make FT's to close out a game or keep building leads.  People want to focus on better FG%.  Great.  While we're at it lets work on rebounding, assist to turnover ratio, defense, etc.  All of that is wonderful.  Great plan.  Every aspect of the game can be worked on and you may get some improvement, but FT's are something that no matter what---they will be a huge part of the strategy used against us.  It may not get any better until after French and Goodwin graduate, but I can't believe that nearly 3 years into a 4 year career we are still having this trouble.  At some point someone has to sit these guys down and explain that they either try something different or that for as hard as they work and battle, they are hurting the teams chances to do something that will be over in the blink of an eye.  A 4 year career goes by fast.  There are only 4 chances to make a tournament.  Even if you move on to play pro, while you are in college you want to go to the tournament.  The NCAA doesn't hand out at-large bids like candy at Halloween.  I've heard some quotes from some of the guys that seem to accept or downplay the FT issue.  I understand they may not want to dwell on it, but at this point you need to make a point and drive it home.  Last night we were lucky to get the win.  Making a FT could have possibly kept us out of OT.  We may not get as lucky next time.  At this point in the season most anyone who will contribute to the team knows the plays.  Working on offense and other things is not to be ignored, but is it really going to make us any better than what we are?  Taking a little more time to shake this teams' collective head up about FT's is something that must be done ASAP.   People who say it can't be done in season are just wrong.  What do coaches do if a particular offense or defense isn't working in a game????  THEY ADJUST.  They run something different.  THIS isn't working.  Whatever they are doing or not doing to correct the FT% is not working.  ADJUST YOUR GAME PLAN AND WAKE THESE GUYS UP.   

-it looks to me like HAS does just this over the course of a game, rarely does he do the same thing twice when shooting ft's

[glazedandconfused]

9 hours ago, Spoonball18 said:

I'm not too worried about setting up the body of the thought in paragraph style when it's a freaking topic about horrible free throw shooting.  If you prefer, you are more than welcome to read it, repost it with the correct paragraph style, and correct any grammatical errors so it is more pleasing to your eye.  This is 2020.  This is the day and age where kids and young adults need a safe space from mean words.  They don't know how to read or write in cursive, can't drive a manual transmission, don't know what a pay phone is, can't do math without a calculator, don't know how to spell without spellcheck, and can't dial a rotary dial phone.  This is my boycott.  Block text.

"Kids these days aren't familiar with outdated technology/practices so I am not going to use the enter key!" 

[GBL_Bills]

10 hours ago, Spoonball18 said:

I'm not too worried about setting up the body of the thought in paragraph style when it's a freaking topic about horrible free throw shooting.  If you prefer, you are more than welcome to read it, repost it with the correct paragraph style, and correct any grammatical errors so it is more pleasing to your eye.  This is 2020.  This is the day and age where kids and young adults need a safe space from mean words.  They don't know how to read or write in cursive, can't drive a manual transmission, don't know what a pay phone is, can't do math without a calculator, don't know how to spell without spellcheck, and can't dial a rotary dial phone.  This is my boycott.  Block text.

ok boomer

[slu72]

No one should call this a worthless topic. It has cost us games and will likely cost us a few more, which seems so senseless. We could shoot 80% from the field but if the other team's matching us and it's a close game in the closing minutes they are going to foul us. And inevitably we are going to miss them. A FT is right behind an uncontested layup or jam for the easiest task in hoops. It's frustrating that we shoot ourselves in the foot by missing so many. 

[glazedandconfused]

27 minutes ago, slu72 said:

No one should call this a worthless topic. It has cost us games and will likely cost us a few more, which seems so senseless. We could shoot 80% from the field but if the other team's matching us and it's a close game in the closing minutes they are going to foul us. And inevitably we are going to miss them. A FT is right behind an uncontested layup or jam for the easiest task in hoops. It's frustrating that we shoot ourselves in the foot by missing so many. 

This is a worthless topic. We miss so many free throws because our best players are bad shooters. It may "cost us games" but so has not being better 3 point shooters or better mid-range shooters. Players can't really do anything about it at this point except practice and try and get better (which has to be hard at this point). Yes we are worst in the nation at FT % but that is pretty solely because Hasahn French has no jump shot at all and shoots a ton of FT. That's fine. That's not part of his game. He does a lot of other stuff really well. Gotta take the good with the bad when you're a high-mid-major program like SLU.

Makes more sense to be frustrated by mistakes that are mental rather than physical (i.e. dumb fouls/turnovers/shot selection). Those are inexcusable. Missing shots is going to happen and we won't be better at the FT line until JGood and French graduate. But by then we are going to be complaining about not being one of the best rebounding teams in the nation. 

Just re-calibrate expectations. We are a 57% shooting team from the FT line....We can't do anything about that without limiting French's usage which surely is not what we want to do.

 

EDIT: that being said...it is a legitimate gripe when we have Goodwin or especially French shooting the ball in late game situations. We should really be trying to have Perkins/Jacobs/Hargrove/Weaver getting fouled in end of game situations.

[Billikens4life]

1 minute ago, glazedandconfused said:

This is a worthless topic. We miss so many free throws because our best players are bad shooters. It may "cost us games" but so has not being better 3 point shooters or better mid-range shooters. Players can't really do anything about it at this point except practice and try and get better (which has to be hard at this point). Yes we are worst in the nation at FT % but that is pretty solely because Hasahn French has no jump shot at all and shoots a ton of FT. That's fine. That's not part of his game. He does a lot of other stuff really well. Gotta take the good with the bad when you a High-mid-major program like SLU.

Makes more sense to be frustrated by mistakes that are mental rather than physical (i.e. dumb fouls/turnovers/shot selection). Those are inexcusable. Missing shots is going to happen and we won't be better at the FT line until JGood and French graduate. But by then we are going to be complaining about not being one of the best rebounding teams in the nation. 

Just re-calibrate expectations. We are a 57% shooting team from the FT line....We can't do anything about that without limiting French's usage which surely is not what we want to do. 

This is exactly right.  When Goodwin and French shoot almost all of your FTs, the percentage isn't going to be good.  It's quite simple.  

[billikenfan05]

6 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

This is a worthless topic. We miss so many free throws because our best players are bad shooters. It may "cost us games" but so has not being better 3 point shooters or better mid-range shooters. Players can't really do anything about it at this point except practice and try and get better (which has to be hard at this point). Yes we are worst in the nation at FT % but that is pretty solely because Hasahn French has no jump shot at all and shoots a ton of FT. That's fine. That's not part of his game. He does a lot of other stuff really well. Gotta take the good with the bad when you're a high-mid-major program like SLU.

Makes more sense to be frustrated by mistakes that are mental rather than physical (i.e. dumb fouls/turnovers/shot selection). Those are inexcusable. Missing shots is going to happen and we won't be better at the FT line until JGood and French graduate. But by then we are going to be complaining about not being one of the best rebounding teams in the nation. 

Just re-calibrate expectations. We are a 57% shooting team from the FT line....We can't do anything about that without limiting French's usage which surely is not what we want to do.

 

EDIT: that being said...it is a legitimate gripe when we have Goodwin or especially French shooting the ball in late game situations. We should really be trying to have Perkins/Jacobs/Hargrove/Weaver getting fouled in end of game situations.

Well done. I do think what we’re seeing as far as low scoring output from French is somewhat an effort to put him in positions where he’s effective offensive but also not in position to get sent to the line. 

[wgstl]

[wgstl]

My god we would be awful

[HoosierPal]

15 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Yeah I saw this. Losing a point on missed FT, we might have a negative score!  And the endless replays on 'did the ball touch the rim' would be unwatchable. 

[Spoonball18]

On 1/31/2020 at 11:44 AM, glazedandconfused said:

This is a worthless topic. We miss so many free throws because our best players are bad shooters. It may "cost us games" but so has not being better 3 point shooters or better mid-range shooters. Players can't really do anything about it at this point except practice and try and get better (which has to be hard at this point). Yes we are worst in the nation at FT % but that is pretty solely because Hasahn French has no jump shot at all and shoots a ton of FT. That's fine. That's not part of his game. He does a lot of other stuff really well. Gotta take the good with the bad when you're a high-mid-major program like SLU.

Makes more sense to be frustrated by mistakes that are mental rather than physical (i.e. dumb fouls/turnovers/shot selection). Those are inexcusable. Missing shots is going to happen and we won't be better at the FT line until JGood and French graduate. But by then we are going to be complaining about not being one of the best rebounding teams in the nation. 

Just re-calibrate expectations. We are a 57% shooting team from the FT line....We can't do anything about that without limiting French's usage which surely is not what we want to do.

 

EDIT: that being said...it is a legitimate gripe when we have Goodwin or especially French shooting the ball in late game situations. We should really be trying to have Perkins/Jacobs/Hargrove/Weaver getting fouled in end of game situations.

Based on this theory, all we have to do is make more layups, force more turnovers, make more assists, improve our 12’ jumpers, and improve on our 3 pt shooting and we will likely never lose  another game and win numerous NCAA Championships because we will never have to worry about being in a close game again due to how super human we are at every aspect of the game other than FT%.  This is such as amazing and simple plan of action to offset the FT%...I wonder why Coach Ford and the staff haven’t thought of this???  I mean good Lord. It’s such a perfect plan.  
   I don’t think I’ve ever been more proud to root for a team than I am at this very second!  OMG we are on the cusp of something truly amazing in the world of sports!  Sorry folks, you had your chance to get on the bandwagon when we were last in the nation in FT% and leaving a ton of points at the line but it’s too late now that we have figured out how to win every game by 20.

[glazedandconfused]

On 1/31/2020 at 11:44 AM, glazedandconfused said:

This is a worthless topic. We miss so many free throws because our best players are bad shooters. It may "cost us games" but so has not being better 3 point shooters or better mid-range shooters. Players can't really do anything about it at this point except practice and try and get better (which has to be hard at this point). Yes we are worst in the nation at FT % but that is pretty solely because Hasahn French has no jump shot at all and shoots a ton of FT. That's fine. That's not part of his game. He does a lot of other stuff really well. Gotta take the good with the bad when you're a high-mid-major program like SLU.

Makes more sense to be frustrated by mistakes that are mental rather than physical (i.e. dumb fouls/turnovers/shot selection). Those are inexcusable. Missing shots is going to happen and we won't be better at the FT line until JGood and French graduate. But by then we are going to be complaining about not being one of the best rebounding teams in the nation. 

Just re-calibrate expectations. We are a 57% shooting team from the FT line....We can't do anything about that without limiting French's usage which surely is not what we want to do.

 

EDIT: that being said...it is a legitimate gripe when we have Goodwin or especially French shooting the ball in late game situations. We should really be trying to have Perkins/Jacobs/Hargrove/Weaver getting fouled in end of game situations.

How in the world did my post (above) make you think what you posted below? 

37 minutes ago, Spoonball18 said:

Based on this theory, all we have to do is make more layups, force more turnovers, make more assists, improve our 12’ jumpers, and improve on our 3 pt shooting and we will likely never lose  another game and win numerous NCAA Championships because we will never have to worry about being in a close game again due to how super human we are at every aspect of the game other than FT%.  This is such as amazing and simple plan of action to offset the FT%...I wonder why Coach Ford and the staff haven’t thought of this???  I mean good Lord. It’s such a perfect plan.  
   I don’t think I’ve ever been more proud to root for a team than I am at this very second!  OMG we are on the cusp of something truly amazing in the world of sports!  Sorry folks, you had your chance to get on the bandwagon when we were last in the nation in FT% and leaving a ton of points at the line but it’s too late now that we have figured out how to win every game by 20.

 

[Spoonball18]

5 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

How in the world did my post (above) make you think what you posted below? 

 

Forgive me, I may have been glazed and confused when I posted that.  Anytime I see a post that says we need to accept who we are just frustrates me.  SOMEONE and maybe it wasn’t you, posted that we needed to worry about shooting better and improve on other aspects of the game instead of FT%.  When you responded to SLU72 by saying it was a worthless topic, I assumed it was you who posted about improving other aspects of our game.

[glazedandconfused]

6 minutes ago, Spoonball18 said:

Forgive me, I may have been glazed and confused when I posted that.  Anytime I see a post that says we need to accept who we are just frustrates me.  SOMEONE and maybe it wasn’t you, posted that we needed to worry about shooting better and improve on other aspects of the game instead of FT%.  When you responded to SLU72 by saying it was a worthless topic, I assumed it was you who posted about improving other aspects of our game.

No worries. However, I am of the belief that complaining about French's free throw shooting is a worthless topic for us on this board. Obviously, I think Ford and crew should continue to work with him. But he's what he is at this point. He's a really good basketball player with no jumpshot at all.

He's the reason we are worst in the country at FT% but he's also a major reason we are 16-5 and 3rd in the A10. So gotta take the (very) good with the (very) bad. 

[juniorbill76]

7 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

No worries. However, I am of the belief that complaining about French's free throw shooting is a worthless topic for us on this board. Obviously, I think Ford and crew should continue to work with him. But he's what he is at this point. He's a really good basketball player with no jumpshot at all.

He's the reason we are worst in the country at FT% but he's also a major reason we are 16-5 and 3rd in the A10. So gotta take the (very) good with the (very) bad. 

Agree. Maybe we should petition for a rule change - on a personal foul either accept the free throws or take the ball out of bounds.

[Spoonball18]

On 1/31/2020 at 11:52 AM, billikenfan05 said:

Well done. I do think what we’re seeing as far as low scoring output from French is somewhat an effort to put him in positions where he’s effective offensive but also not in position to get sent to the line. 

It still seems like the percentage couldn’t be any worse and possibly improve just by (as some have suggested) banking it off the backboard square.  At least maybe Has would avoid the ones that end up at 8.5’ and 2’ off center.  It could improve the chances of grabbing a couple more rebounds.  Aiming for the square is no different than taking extra practice at a different shot.  If you want to improve from a different spot on the floor, you work on it.  It should be easy for French since he has absolutely NO JUMP SHOT anyway.  There are NO MECHANICS to mess up.  Every single FT attempt that ends up nowhere close to the basket makes me believe French has a better future in the NFL than in pro basketball.

[Cowboy]

24 minutes ago, Spoonball18 said:

It still seems like the percentage couldn’t be any worse and possibly improve just by (as some have suggested) banking it off the backboard square.  At least maybe Has would avoid the ones that end up at 8.5’ and 2’ off center.  It could improve the chances of grabbing a couple more rebounds.  Aiming for the square is no different than taking extra practice at a different shot.  If you want to improve from a different spot on the floor, you work on it.  It should be easy for French since he has absolutely NO JUMP SHOT anyway.  There are NO MECHANICS to mess up.  Every single FT attempt that ends up nowhere close to the basket makes me believe French has a better future in the NFL than in pro basketball.

-you are asking someone that during a game can't make it at 16ft (ft line to front of rim is 15feet plus 1foot for the ball) to now shoot it at least 2 feet further (15feet plus 2feet of rim and neck plus 1foot up the backboard so the ball can bank into the net), seems like a great idea

 

[billikenfan05]

53 minutes ago, Spoonball18 said:

It still seems like the percentage couldn’t be any worse and possibly improve just by (as some have suggested) banking it off the backboard square.  At least maybe Has would avoid the ones that end up at 8.5’ and 2’ off center.  It could improve the chances of grabbing a couple more rebounds.  Aiming for the square is no different than taking extra practice at a different shot.  If you want to improve from a different spot on the floor, you work on it.  It should be easy for French since he has absolutely NO JUMP SHOT anyway.  There are NO MECHANICS to mess up.  Every single FT attempt that ends up nowhere close to the basket makes me believe French has a better future in the NFL than in pro basketball.

Yeah I mean he struggles to find the rim left and right I’m not sure he can hit the square. 

[slufanskip]

6 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Yeah I mean he struggles to find the rim left and right I’m not sure he can hit the square. 

And it's not like you just have to hit the square. The ball still needs the right weight and arc. 

[Littlebill]

5 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

And it's not like you just have to hit the square. The ball still needs the right weight and arc. 

It's objectively more difficult than doing it normally

[Billikenbooster]

YTD stats...SLU FTM 303

Opp FTM 304

Yes it’s frustrating, but the facts are we have made as many FT this year as our opposition. 
FT problem fixed!!!!

mhg

[cheeseman]

7 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

YTD stats...SLU FTM 303

Opp FTM 304

Yes it’s frustrating, but the facts are we have made as many FT this year as our opposition. 
FT problem fixed!!!!

mhg

Your analysis is of interest it does not mean the problem is fixed.  We would have a bigger offensive margin if we hit our FTs at even just an avg rate.  The point of the game is to score more points than your opponent.

[Crewsorlose]

If it makes anybody feel better, Yuri is at 72% since the Beth-Cookman game.

[slu72]

What were we against Dayton? 17-37. FT's would have given us the W.