Jump to content

GDT: Pukin', Dukin' and Nod


Taj79

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 584
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

3 minutes ago, Bills_06 said:

I just don't think that is true though...

 

if you look at the picture, look at ford and french's hands.   i.e. with ford standing right there french isnt doing what is "being taught".  reinforce bad habits you get bad results.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

First, you said everyone was solely blaming Ford. That people were assigning 100% blame to Ford.  That simply isn’t true and you know it. 
 

Secondly, as I stated early, I don’t know how to “hold Ford accountable.” My frustration levels have maxed out. But it’s obvious he sucks at teaching free throws with this team. I don’t need to argue it. The numbers are on my side. What would I do for a change? Literally anything. I don’t think it’s out of the question to make Has shoot them underhanded, for example. 
 

Also, if your big idea is to play a walk-on 6 minutes you really have a bad roster set up. 
 

NH pointed out additional issues. No need to rehash them. 

The numbers are on your side this team sucks at shooting free throws but I just can't get there with blaming Ford.  Even shooting underhanded I have mentioned a few times but the player has to want to do that.  You can't just force them if they aren't comfortable with it.  Wilt improved his shooting the one season he did it and stopped because he felt like a sissy according to him.  Shaq said he would rather shoot 0% than shoot underhanded.

Ford can change 1000 things and help them have perfect form but if a player goes to the line and changes it because of pressure or how tired they are, then they need to realize than and try to replicate that more in practice.  Ford can't say "that seems like how you probably feel in a game".  The only person that knows how French feels and what goes through French's mind when he steps up to the line in a game is French so yes, I do put the main blame on the player to figure it out.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

if you look at the picture, look at ford and french's hands.   i.e. with ford standing right there french isnt doing what is "being taught".  reinforce bad habits you get bad results.  

I only posted it because you said Ford isn't teaching them at all. Maybe that is the one picture where French messed up.  I don't know, all I was posting it for was to say it seems Ford does work on technique and try to teach them.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

if you look at the picture, look at ford and french's hands.   i.e. with ford standing right there french isnt doing what is "being taught".  reinforce bad habits you get bad results.  

You are using this one photo to draw conclusions about Ford's coaching.

Also, the problem is more clearly just our best players aren't great shooters.  Which is fine. Ford recruited these guys like months after he started. We will hopefully get more talented players as Ford's tenure progresses.

billiken_roy likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Bills_06 said:

The numbers are on your side this team sucks at shooting free throws but I just can't get there with blaming Ford.  Even shooting underhanded I have mentioned a few times but the player has to want to do that.  You can't just force them if they aren't comfortable with it.  Wilt improved his shooting the one season he did it and stopped because he felt like a sissy according to him.  Shaq said he would rather shoot 0% than shoot underhanded.

Ford can change 1000 things and help them have perfect form but if a player goes to the line and changes it because of pressure or how tired they are, then they need to realize than and try to replicate that more in practice.  Ford can't say "that seems like how you probably feel in a game".  The only person that knows how French feels and what goes through French's mind when he steps up to the line in a game is French so yes, I do put the main blame on the player to figure it out.  

actually the first step is to fundamentally correct the form and then replicate it enough that it is habit.   then you want to create the atmosphere that best resembles game like scenario and physical condition.    all can happen.   at this point in the season at least the first part has to happen outside of practice.   see previous documentation of javon bess learning to shoot.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, glazedandconfused said:

You are using this one photo to draw conclusions about Ford's coaching.

Also, the problem is more clearly just our best players aren't great shooters.  Which is fine. Ford recruited these guys like months after he started. We will hopefully get more talented players as Ford's tenure progresses.

no argument from me on the above.   i completely agree.   and i think if you look back on my posts the last 2+ years you will never find i directly attribute french and goodwin's free throw success to our on the floor team success.   i believe both are so much better than the rest of the team we have to endure their failure's shooting free throws.   i am encouraged there is a picture showing ford demonstrating the correct form.   once.    of course neither ford nor french are watching each other.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

actually the first step is to fundamentally correct the form and then replicate it enough that it is habit.   then you want to create the atmosphere that best resembles game like scenario and physical condition.    all can happen.   at this point in the season at least the first part has to happen outside of practice.   see previous documentation of javon bess learning to shoot.   

Who is responsible for Bess learning to shoot?  I must've missed the previous documentation where it was definitively stated.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes, our record of 11-2 was truly all smoke and mirrors.   We played no one good.  We beat no one good.   All the bad teams actually made Coach Ford look good for a short while - but we all know that is/was all wrong.  Maybe we should fire Coach Ford and replace him with Drew Diener?  Antony Bonner?  

I don’t think the 11-2 record was all smoke and mirrors and I think last night was just an unfortunate clunker. I’m still expecting big things from these team in conference.

 

That said, we haven’t beaten anybody good. We beat a bunch of mediocre/bad teams. we played two good teams and lost both of them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just decided (and i slept on it too) that French is a horrible free throw shooter and damn the reasons.  Kid can't do it. Fifty percent is a prayer and one I've come to accept ----- as his ceiling.  Pictures show Ford working with him.  Ford says he's making 80 or 90 out of 100 at practice.  Game comes, lights go on,and French sucks.   French is now shooting 35%.  I have come to embrace the horror.  Goodwin appears to be better but he's also at 51%.  We obviously don't want "free" points.  Not manly enough for our bully ball style?  After our leaders fail miserably, everyone else's misses get exaggerated and amplified.  

So .... our leaders can't shoot, our point guard won't shoot, and our 2 guard is averaging about 2 a game.  This increases the pressure on Perkins and Weaver, who apparently can shoot. Jimmerson's loss does hurt in terms of skill and spacing but the fact remains that our overall basketball skills are below average.  Last night's game again showed that.  We didn't lose because Goodwin missed two free throws with ten ticks on the clock ala Davidson.  But we lost collectively by missing 11 free throws and letting them beat us with three more threes.

At one point last night, the announcers said seven Dukes were in positive +/- categories in the game.The Billikens played 10 men and not a one was in the positive.  So, nothing worked.  They played two guards and we played five.  Never wore them down once.

Based on this game two things :  11 and 2 was illusionary and if Duquesne plays that way each night for Dambrot, they have a shot at top four.  But like Richmond, one injury screws them royally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, dlarry said:

I don’t think the 11-2 record was all smoke and mirrors and I think last night was just an unfortunate clunker. I’m still expecting big things from these team in conference.

 

That said, we haven’t beaten anybody good. We best a bunch of mediocre/bad teams. we played two good teams and lost both of them. 

and had some dog fights with those mediocre/bad teams. 

After a night’s sleep, going to stay positive and let JGood be the leader we read about.  Let’s bounce back Sunday and try to forget about this clunker. We can and have played better. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

  Ford says he's making 80 or 90 out of 100 at practice. 

not picking on you. 

 

But if French is really making 80% or 90% in practice, why Ford seen teaching him? That doesnt add up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, moytoy12 said:

and had some dog fights with those mediocre/bad teams. 

After a night’s sleep, going to stay positive and let JGood be the leader we read about.  Let’s bounce back Sunday and try to forget about this clunker. We can and have played better. 

not to compare it to last years team, but that team played every game close and made the tournament.  Last year taught me a lot, and that the biggest take away was to love wins, doesn't matter by how much. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

and had some dog fights with those mediocre/bad teams. 

After a night’s sleep, going to stay positive and let JGood be the leader we read about.  Let’s bounce back Sunday and try to forget about this clunker. We can and have played better. 

Majerus's teams had this clunker. Santa Clara, Loyola Marymount, etc. These things happen. Just have to win a game they aren't supposed to in the next couple months.

Billiken Rich likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

Here's my point:   summed up in the attached box score.

 

Road league games (whether against VCU/UD or St. Joe - or anyone in between such as Duquesne) require upper class leadership.  Our defense was terrible (Thatch would have helped) and our perimeter shooting was terrible (Jimerson and Thatch would have helped).

https://stltoday.sports.gracenote.com/basketball/ncaab/boxscore/1010188

1.  Has French may have had his worst game of the year.   -  37 minutes and only 8 points shooting 2 for 8 and 4 of 10 from FT line  Not acceptable.

2.  Yes, Bell could not handle Duquesne - Coach Ford knew that and played him only 11 minutes - and yet he scored nearly as many points as Has - 6 points making 2 of 5 from the floor and both of his FTs.

3.  Perkins is a new face - though he has 2 years of prior JUCO experience = and he too laid an egg while shooting 3 of 10 and 0 for 1 from FT line for 6 points - same as Bell.  Especially wit the loss of Thatch and Jimerson, we need Perkins to step up - and he didn't.

4.   Jacobs, our starting 2 guard went 1 for 8 for 2 points - not going to win many games with that production - especially when our PG does not score.  Not going to win many games like this - even home games against Maryville.  Sit Jacobs?  Yes, Coach Ford would like to do that - and can largely be said to have done this by playing him only 19 minutes -- that means he sat on the bench for over half the game (21 minutes).   But who does Ford play?  Big Three Thatch? Jimerson?  More time to Hargrove and Weaver? That's our problem:  we cannot sit Jacobs when we are already without Thatch and Jimerson.

5.  We all love Yuri.  He makes those around him better.   Yes, generally but no one looked good last night. Does Yuri get the blame for Jacobs only scoring 2 points?   and Perkins only 6 points? and Has only 8 points? At the same time, Yuri's total offense consisted of him making only 1 point shot all night -  not good enough - especially without Thatch and Jimerson. Yuri attempted only 3 attempted shots all night during 26 minutes and no FTs - sorry but we lack the talent to be able to afford to play such a one dimensional player.

6.  Hargrove still has a lot to learn.  We all know that there was a reason he did not play most of this season.  Last night, he played 15 minutes due to the loss of Thatch and Jimerson, played relatively well offensively scoring 5 of 8 shots for 11 points - but his defense is still not ready.

7.  Weaver played  29 minutes - again, more minutes than he deserved - but who else is Coach Ford to play?  Weaver's defense was not good.   I get it.  Should Ford have played Perkins more than his 22 minutes?  Should Ford have played Jacobs more than his 19 minutes?  We missed both Thatch and Jimerson. - though 3 of 6 from 3 point line, no FTs and 29 minutes off the bench is not great - but he is a bench player - and sure better than what Jacobs and Perkins did.

8.  Hightower played 7 minutes and took no shots. I give credit to Coach Ford for trying something different - as none of our others could stop the Duquesne dribble penetration.  

In fairness to Perkins, it looked like he was dealing with a minor lower leg injury which robbed him of some of his athleticism, he was hobbling around all night, a couple of times when he came out of the game he was getting attention from the trainer. I think Perkins would have played more and been more effective if he had been healthier. Hopefully, he can get healthier between now and Sunday, they really do need his scoring punch. 

Hargrove is an interesting case,  he plays with great energy and because of his talent makes plays (particularly on the offensive end)  others can't but he does struggle with the finer points of the game. He looks pretty comfortable on offense but extremely uncomfortable on defense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Bills_06 said:

Who is responsible for Bess learning to shoot?  I must've missed the previous documentation where it was definitively stated.  

he was taught the correct form by the coaches and he and he alone then perfected it with thousands of repetitions in early morning and late night shoot arounds by himself.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I've just decided (and i slept on it too) that French is a horrible free throw shooter and damn the reasons.  Kid can't do it. Fifty percent is a prayer and one I've come to accept ----- as his ceiling.  Pictures show Ford working with him.  Ford says he's making 80 or 90 out of 100 at practice.  Game comes, lights go on,and French sucks.   French is now shooting 35%.  I have come to embrace the horror.  Goodwin appears to be better but he's also at 51%.  We obviously don't want "free" points.  Not manly enough for our bully ball style?  After our leaders fail miserably, everyone else's misses get exaggerated and amplified.  

So .... our leaders can't shoot, our point guard won't shoot, and our 2 guard is averaging about 2 a game.  This increases the pressure on Perkins and Weaver, who apparently can shoot. Jimmerson's loss does hurt in terms of skill and spacing but the fact remains that our overall basketball skills are below average.  Last night's game again showed that.  We didn't lose because Goodwin missed two free throws with ten ticks on the clock ala Davidson.  But we lost collectively by missing 11 free throws and letting them beat us with three more threes.

At one point last night, the announcers said seven Dukes were in positive +/- categories in the game.The Billikens played 10 men and not a one was in the positive.  So, nothing worked.  They played two guards and we played five.  Never wore them down once.

Based on this game two things :  11 and 2 was illusionary and if Duquesne plays that way each night for Dambrot, they have a shot at top four.  But like Richmond, one injury screws them royally.

i'll go one more, french cant shoot period.   anything outside that little half circle in the lane is an adventure especially if he is guarded and his body turned.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m curious why KC is in the doghouse? Missed a shot and he’s yanked.  Tough for a kid to gain any confidence that way. There were times when you’d think KC matched up better with some of the guys TJ was defending. 

Not expecting much from KC going forward, but I know he can give us more than what we’ve seen this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, moytoy12 said:

I’m curious why KC is in the doghouse? Missed a shot and he’s yanked.  Tough for a kid to gain any confidence that way. There were times when you’d think KC matched up better with some of the guys TJ was defending. 

Not expecting much from KC going forward, but I know he can give us more than what we’ve seen this season.

I only want KC in when French is also in.  KC is truly, and I dont mean do rag on him, a stretch 4. 

I understand why, but I hate that we made KC into something he is not, a traditional big. 

You can tell KC also hates it, Id be shocked if hes here next year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...