TJ Hargrove

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

I want to first make this post commenting on the technical foul. 
I rewatched on ESPN + over and over and it seems like words were said to TJ that made him erupt. Not sure what was said but Goodwin defending him immediately to Ford, showing exactly how great of a captain he is. other than that and his defense need improving but that will come. 
 

some people on here have to face the facts that Hargrove showed up when few else did. Rewatch the game. It wasn’t just TJ lackluster on defense. I mean Jacobs started it out getting beat. the highest scoring game this year is by TJ and if your excuse is that it was only Maryville, then what’s your excuse for the rest of the team. 
 

some people here are just out for him or have the biggest tunnel vision as possible. Perkins, Gibson and TJ are pure scorers. If they let a few points slip by, that’s fine if they make up for it in outscoring their defensive deficiency. That’s what the +- is for. And if you looks at that, he did outstanding. 
 

Ford himself even said he will play a lot more. 

[mrjoelabs]

Problem is he let up more than a few points, against a D2 team. K State would carve him up.  Hes so undersized, remember.  I hope I am wrong, but he looked feeble stopping guys...

[slufanskip]

13 minutes ago, mrjoelabs said:

Problem is he let up more than a few points, against a D2 team. K State would carve him up.  Hes so undersized, remember.  I hope I am wrong, but he looked feeble stopping guys...

Just curious, how many points do you think he gave up, and how many of those were due to poor D? 

[mrjoelabs]

Watching live, at least 8-10 on lazy plays.  Then probably 6-8 more which are not his fault as much due to some of the shots they hit.  Definitely not the "35" someone quoted in the GDT, but he did give up a good number. 

[slufanskip]

Just now, mrjoelabs said:

Watching live, at least 8-10 on lazy plays.  Then probably 6-8 more which are not his fault as much due to some of the shots they hit.  Definitely not the "35" someone quoted in the GDT, but he did give up a good number. 

Re watch the game, I bet you feel differently. I had the advantage of watching it after reading the thread so I was specifically watching to see this horrible D. It's just not there. He gave up a couple of baskets that weren't good, but hell so did Perkins and Jacobs. If I had the option of choosing between Perkins and Hargrove guarding a player 1 vs 1, I'll take Hargrove all day

[mrjoelabs]

I will do that.   Perkins can be a leaky valve too, no doubt. 

[NextYearBill]

Bold Prediction: If Hargrove plays here 4 years, He will be 'A10 Player of the Year' his senior year

We've never witnessed that type of athleticism in a Billiken uniform. kid is a skywalker 

[Bay Area Billiken]

15 minutes ago, NextYearBill said:

Bold Prediction: If Hargrove plays here 4 years, He will be 'A10 Player of the Year' his senior year

We've never witnessed that type of athleticism in a Billiken uniform. kid is a skywalker 

Let's not keep Dr. J on the bench any longer, please.

[DirtyRican]

The game is more exciting with him in it.  Willie was the same way albeit much taller. 
 

We also had no French protecting the rim, that would made those lay ups he let up much more difficult. 

[Billfan7]

7 hours ago, mrjoelabs said:

Problem is he let up more than a few points, against a D2 team. K State would carve him up.  Hes so undersized, remember.  I hope I am wrong, but he looked feeble stopping guys...

I agree he needs to get stronger.   I sit behind the basket and he was either bumped out of the way or outmuscled a few times for rebounds when he had position.  As to his defense, he gave up at least 2 blow by straight line drives to the basket for layups.  But, it was still great to see him play and show what he can do.

[BIG BILL FAN]

8 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

I want to first make this post commenting on the technical foul. 
I rewatched on ESPN + over and over and it seems like words were said to TJ that made him erupt. Not sure what was said but Goodwin defending him immediately to Ford, showing exactly how great of a captain he is. other than that and his defense need improving but that will come. 
 

some people on here have to face the facts that Hargrove showed up when few else did. Rewatch the game. It wasn’t just TJ lackluster on defense. I mean Jacobs started it out getting beat. the highest scoring game this year is by TJ and if your excuse is that it was only Maryville, then what’s your excuse for the rest of the team. 
 

some people here are just out for him or have the biggest tunnel vision as possible. Perkins, Gibson and TJ are pure scorers. If they let a few points slip by, that’s fine if they make up for it in outscoring their defensive deficiency. That’s what the +- is for. And if you looks at that, he did outstanding. 
 

Ford himself even said he will play a lot more. 

sounds like you are describing yourself when you attack Jimmy Bell....

[brianstl]

If the question is "Did Hargrove earn some minutes last night?", then the answer is yes.  If the question is "Did Hargrove earn himself top rotation minutes last night?", then the answer is no.  It isn't a feast or famine thing.  He showed he can be a weapon on the offensive end last night.  It is important to remember that scoring at the rim like he did last night will be harder against even Fordham than it was against Maryville.  Consistent double digit minutes will depend on him rounding out his game more on both ends of the court.  I think Hargrove will do that and will be a great weapon in the future, but he is probably more of a situational/matchup limited minute guy at this point.

[RUBillsFan]

3 hours ago, NextYearBill said:

Bold Prediction: If Hargrove plays here 4 years and has around Collins to feed him the ball, He will be 'A10 Player of the Year' his senior year

We've never witnessed that type of athleticism in a Billiken uniform. kid is a skywalker 

FIFY.  On most of his buckets Hargrove wasn't creating his own shots.  Collins (and Goodwin) kept setting him up.  That Collins > Hargrove connection is going to fun to watch for the rest of their careers.

[cgeldmacher]

21 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

FIFY.  On most of his buckets Hargrove wasn't creating his own shots.  Collins (and Goodwin) kept setting him up.  That Collins > Hargrove connection is going to fun to watch for the rest of their careers.

If we're patient with these guys and allow Ford to manage their minutes and develop their games, imagine the Junior and Senior years of Collins, Jimerson, and Hargrove.  If Collins beats his man and has the three options of 1) drive for a layup, 2) kick out to Jimerson at the 3 point line, 3) loft a pass for Hargrove to throw down, that's going to be really hard to stop.

[NextYearBill]

8 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

If we're patient with these guys and allow Ford to manage their minutes and develop their games, imagine the Junior and Senior years of Collins, Jimerson, and Hargrove.  If Collins beats his man and has the three options of 1) drive for a layup, 2) kick out to Jimerson at the 3 point line, 3) loft a pass for Hargrove to throw down, that's going to be really hard to stop.

dont sleep on Junior, Senior JIMMY BELL

[wgstl]

24 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

If we're patient with these guys and allow Ford to manage their minutes and develop their games, imagine the Junior and Senior years of Collins, Jimerson, and Hargrove.  If Collins beats his man and has the three options of 1) drive for a layup, 2) kick out to Jimerson at the 3 point line, 3) loft a pass for Hargrove to throw down, that's going to be really hard to stop.

im actually looking more forward to seeing this next year with a senior Goodwin, french, and perkins to go with it. 

 

also Collins is #1 frosh in assists, and GJ is #6 in 3pointers as a frosh

[willie]

10 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

I want to first make this post commenting on the technical foul. 
I rewatched on ESPN + over and over and it seems like words were said to TJ that made him erupt. Not sure what was said but Goodwin defending him immediately to Ford, showing exactly how great of a captain he is. other than that and his defense need improving but that will come. 
 

some people on here have to face the facts that Hargrove showed up when few else did. Rewatch the game. It wasn’t just TJ lackluster on defense. I mean Jacobs started it out getting beat. the highest scoring game this year is by TJ and if your excuse is that it was only Maryville, then what’s your excuse for the rest of the team. 
 

some people here are just out for him or have the biggest tunnel vision as possible. Perkins, Gibson and TJ are pure scorers. If they let a few points slip by, that’s fine if they make up for it in outscoring their defensive deficiency. That’s what the +- is for. And if you looks at that, he did outstanding. 
 

Ford himself even said he will play a lot more. 

I was really impressed with Goodwin during the technical melee. Ford was going bananas screaming at Hargrove,almost physically attacking him.Goodwin calmly grabbed Ford and moved him away.Everyone immediately settled down. True leadership. 

[slufanskip]

15 minutes ago, willie said:

I was really impressed with Goodwin during the technical melee. Ford was going bananas screaming at Hargrove,almost physically attacking him.Goodwin calmly grabbed Ford and moved him away.Everyone immediately settled down. True leadership. 

This just can't be said enough. Even near the end when he gave away an easy dunk of his own to Hargrove. That's just understanding your team. 

JGood should just be called MFGOOD (all capitalized out of respect) Even Bob Ramsey fears MFGOOD

[slubillikens43]

Did we ever figure out what set TJ off during that pushing last night? When Ford went out on the court to cool him down he yelled back at coach like there was a reason he was so pissed.

[Old guy]

6 minutes ago, slubillikens43 said:

Did we ever figure out what set TJ off during that pushing last night? When Ford went out on the court to cool him down he yelled back at coach like there was a reason he was so pissed.

Apparently the Maryville player called him something that he REALLY WAS NOT GOING TO TAKE. Goodwin heard it and told the coach.

[almaman]

this seems a good time to ask a  ? of roy that I've been thinking about since we signed TJ, straight up how much space between the 2 east side studs talent wise? Different graduating classes and position but numbers and HS success seem similar.

[billiken_roy]

hargrove and goodwin are two completely different players imo.    goodwin excels on effort and relentlessness where hargrove is more about that pure athleticism imo.   goodwin is one of the hardest working basketball players i have ever witnessed.   end to end never stop.   AND a good athlete.  i told you all when we first signed goodwin, he is the best rebounder i have ever seen.   i mean best period.   throw in rodman, paul silas, anyone.   time and time again this season we have seen him out defending on the 3 point circle, the shot goes up and who gets the rebound?   goodwin.   that is relentless.  that is effort.  

hargrove is an athlete that in the metro east area i have only seen one like him.   darius miles.   but he is/was totally untrained.   too often you saw him take time off but then a second later he was breaking down the court for an unbelieveable dunk.   we saw it last night.   my biggest memory of last night for hargrove was a monent that pretty much defines his career.   on defense, his man beats him right, but with hargrove's incredible leaping ability is still able to block his man's shot from behind.   he has been able to overcome his mistakes by his talent.  

in high school and vs the likes of a D2 Maryville.   that's possible.   it remains to be seen how that will play out vs dayton or vcu.  

the day hargrove figures out basketball will be a glorious day for billiken basketball.   one would think being around two of the hardest working billikens ever in french and goodwin, it will eventually rub off on him.   and when that day comes (and hopefully sooner than later) we will be smiling big time.

 

 

[almaman]

28 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

hargrove and goodwin are two completely different players imo.    goodwin excels on effort and relentlessness where hargrove is more about that pure athleticism imo.   goodwin is one of the hardest working basketball players i have ever witnessed.   end to end never stop.   AND a good athlete.  i told you all when we first signed goodwin, he is the best rebounder i have ever seen.   i mean best period.   throw in rodman, paul silas, anyone.   time and time again this season we have seen him out defending on the 3 point circle, the shot goes up and who gets the rebound?   goodwin.   that is relentless.  that is effort.  

hargrove is an athlete that in the metro east area i have only seen one like him.   darius miles.   but he is/was totally untrained.   too often you saw him take time off but then a second later he was breaking down the court for an unbelieveable dunk.   we saw it last night.   my biggest memory of last night for hargrove was a monent that pretty much defines his career.   on defense, his man beats him right, but with hargrove's incredible leaping ability is still able to block his man's shot from behind.   he has been able to overcome his mistakes by his talent.  

in high school and vs the likes of a D2 Maryville.   that's possible.   it remains to be seen how that will play out vs dayton or vcu.  

the day hargrove figures out basketball will be a glorious day for billiken basketball.   one would think being around two of the hardest working billikens ever in french and goodwin, it will eventually rub off on him.   and when that day comes (and hopefully sooner than later) we will be smiling big time.

 

 

thnx roy

[Sheltiedave]

They play totally different games, and at different levels. Goodwin has always had a motor, the desire, and the aptitude to go as far as hard work, knowledge, skill, and ability would take him.

No one will outwork him in practice, in games, or in the weight room. The best part of having him on the team is we have a clone in French. To this point, they have lifted everyone to have similar aspirations.

Goodwin had shoulder surgery his senior year, and IIRC, Roy, didn’t he get fitted for contacts summer before freshman year?

The closest player similar to Goodwin coming out of high school would be Sergio McClain from Peoria Manual. McClain won multiple consecutive state champs, and was the heartbeat of his team, as is Goodwin.

Hargrove and Collins both have come in as state champs from their respective teams, but Hargrove has not been coached up    by a former D1 player, nor any coaches that stressed D1 level skills development.

Hargrove is beginning to master mtm defensive positioning, but his defensive play is going to be under construction this entire season. Screens totally befuddle him, when and how to go over/under them, when and how to help, how to be comfortable playing down in the paint rather than jumping out.

in high school he needed none of these skills, because he played against Liddell and other better big men under ten games a season. Now he is a D1 swing/big, and he will face someone better every single game.

Hargrove is a finisher right now, not a scorer. His ft skills will tip him into a scorer once his jumper blooms. In a D1 conference game, his six dunks will drop to two dunks, but he will become a great finisher when he learns the baseline slip screens for Jimerson and Jacobs. He will become the best break finisher we have, because he beats his defender down court with ease and he elevates at the rim with ease.

[CBFan]

48 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

hargrove and goodwin are two completely different players imo.    goodwin excels on effort and relentlessness where hargrove is more about that pure athleticism imo.   goodwin is one of the hardest working basketball players i have ever witnessed.   end to end never stop.   AND a good athlete.  i told you all when we first signed goodwin, he is the best rebounder i have ever seen.   i mean best period.   throw in rodman, paul silas, anyone.   time and time again this season we have seen him out defending on the 3 point circle, the shot goes up and who gets the rebound?   goodwin.   that is relentless.  that is effort.  

hargrove is an athlete that in the metro east area i have only seen one like him.   darius miles.   but he is/was totally untrained.   too often you saw him take time off but then a second later he was breaking down the court for an unbelieveable dunk.   we saw it last night.   my biggest memory of last night for hargrove was a monent that pretty much defines his career.   on defense, his man beats him right, but with hargrove's incredible leaping ability is still able to block his man's shot from behind.   he has been able to overcome his mistakes by his talent.  

in high school and vs the likes of a D2 Maryville.   that's possible.   it remains to be seen how that will play out vs dayton or vcu.  

the day hargrove figures out basketball will be a glorious day for billiken basketball.   one would think being around two of the hardest working billikens ever in french and goodwin, it will eventually rub off on him.   and when that day comes (and hopefully sooner than later) we will be smiling big time.

 

 

Good post Roy, in your opinion why does Goodwin struggle so bad from the Free Throw line?

Did Goodwin shoot a higher percentage with free throws in high school?

Goodwin is one of the hardest working basketball players I have ever seen, it is a shame we only have him for four years.