The Wiz Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/22/free-throws-foul-shots-science-of-sports A great article on FT shooting with interviews by Mark Price....4 time NBA All Star...90% FT shooter and former HC of UNC Charlotte...took over an F rated FT shooting team UNCC team and progressed them to an F+ , C and finally an A- in 3 years on the FT line..............Dave Hopla--Shooting Coach for 5 NBA teams ...Considered one of the best shooters in the world...once sunk 1234 FTs in a row and in 2007 hit 11093 of 11183 for a 99.2% record.......Dave Love--shooting coach for 4 NBA teams Bottom line...learn the right way to shoot and then keep shooting and shooting and shooting. billiken_roy, drkelsey55 and slufanskip like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 It might not be a bad idea to get Hankton and Thatch, who cannot play or do practice involving contact or running with the team, to learn FT shooting mechanics and spend their time shooting practice FTs. That is, assuming their respective issues allow a non contact type of practice limited to ball shooting in a regular basis. I am sure that will lift their spirits and make them feel more of a working part of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, The Wiz said: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/22/free-throws-foul-shots-science-of-sports A great article on FT shooting with interviews by Mark Price....4 time NBA All Star...90% FT shooter and former HC of UNC Charlotte...took over an F rated FT shooting team UNCC team and progressed them to an F+ , C and finally an A- in 3 years on the FT line..............Dave Hopla--Shooting Coach for 5 NBA teams ...Considered one of the best shooters in the world...once sunk 1234 FTs in a row and in 2007 hit 11093 of 11183 for a 99.2% record.......Dave Love--shooting coach for 4 NBA teams Bottom line...learn the right way to shoot and then keep shooting and shooting and shooting. Most of the improvement in UNCC's FT percentage came from players that Mark Price brought in, not from the players that were already on the team. The best way to improve a team's free throw percentage is to bring in scorers who are great free throw shooters. TaLBErt, AGB91 and slufanskip like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said: Most of the improvement in UNCC's FT percentage came from players that Mark Price brought in, not from the players that were already on the team. The best way to improve a team's free throw percentage is to bring in scorers who are great free throw shooters. Ha! We could dramatically improve our team FT% by benching French and Goodwin. Eliminate the prime offenders. Of course, I'd rather have an 80% win percentage with a 53% FT percentage, than a 53% win percentage with an 80% FT rate. Crewsorlose, SLUMedBilliken15 and almaman like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said: Most of the improvement in UNCC's FT percentage came from players that Mark Price brought in, not from the players that were already on the team. The best way to improve a team's free throw percentage is to bring in scorers who are great free throw shooters. Is it that Price recruited top shooters or top shooters were attracted to a shooting coach (not to mention an a 4 time NBA all star) or that he coached them up......or a combination of the 3. It is interesting to note that after Price left , Charlotte went from A- to C in FT shooting the following year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 if we get to the dance as the worst FT team in the land we will be media darlings I'd guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, The Wiz said: Is it that Price recruited top shooters or top shooters were attracted to a shooting coach (not to mention an a 4 time NBA all star) or that he coached them up......or a combination of the 3. It is interesting to note that after Price left , Charlotte went from A- to C in FT shooting the following year... Price was fired nine games into his final season and replaced by an interim coach. The next year, Ron Sanchez took over and Charlotte shot 74% from the line. This year, with a different set of players that Sanchez recruited, Charlotte is shooting 75%. Again, bring in scorers who are great free throw shooters. It's not that complicated. The problem is, Charlotte hasn't won under Price or Sanchez using that strategy because Price's great shooters couldn't defend anybody and Sanchez had to rebuild the roster. Sanchez's crew isn't nearly as proficient from 3 but they do shoot free throws well. The secret is to have a balance. A couple of snipers who get to the line surrounded by defense and rebounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlarry Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I think Goodwin could do this! Might be a bit difficult for the larger French but I’m willing to try anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said: Price was fired nine games into his final season and replaced by an interim coach. The next year, Ron Sanchez took over and Charlotte shot 74% from the line. This year, with a different set of players that Sanchez recruited, Charlotte is shooting 75%. Again, bring in scorers who are great free throw shooters. It's not that complicated. The problem is, Charlotte hasn't won under Price or Sanchez using that strategy because Price's great shooters couldn't defend anybody and Sanchez had to rebuild the roster. Sanchez's crew isn't nearly as proficient from 3 but they do shoot free throws well. The secret is to have a balance. A couple of snipers who get to the line surrounded by defense and rebounding. I think we agree. I am not advocating giving up offense or defense to get FT shooting. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. You can have a good offense and defense AND have FT shooting too. AND we don't need to be shooting 80% to win...I would take low 70s....just something respectable. The reason I started this thread is because SLU FT shooting this year has become historically bad....The worst FT shooting in over 20 years....by any Div 1 team To make your point further...let's go back to that 9th game with with UNC Char...the game that got Price fired. UNCC was struggling coming into the game 2-5 ( there is a game missing...I don't count Div 3 games). UNCC ( F+ ) was facing Chattanooga, also F+. Chatt blew them out 64-50. UNCC had 20 TOs and was swept away on the Off boards and had only 2 pts on 2nd chances. To add insult to injury...the one thing that had saved UNCC in the past, was taken away.....FTs....Chatt fouled very little and UNCC had only 5 FTA. With no chance to stay close, UNCC went down the tubes and so did Price , who was fired the next day Moral of the story and to your point...you need more than FT shooting to win....However when you have some offense and good defense....and you have historical low FT shooting, it will cost you some games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 How many people want to give up bully ball, offensive rebounds, and great defense from our best two players to make another five ppg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 16 hours ago, The Wiz said: once sunk 1234 FTs in a row Im gonna guess he sank 1,234 and not 4 in a row Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, wgstl said: Im gonna guess he sank 1,234 and not 4 in a row Yes ...one thousand, two hundred and thirty four...as a comparison...if you took all the FT shots The Bills have made this year and last year and the year before and combined them...it would come to 1122...one thousand , one hundred and twenty two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said: How many people want to give up bully ball, offensive rebounds, and great defense from our best two players to make another five ppg? Nobody. And that really is the question facing Ford for the next two years. When Goodwin and French graduate, then he will have to figure out how to live without them and that solution will likely be more conventional. It's easier to find a guard and a forward who can shoot free throws and play above average defense than it is to find another Goodwin and French who can average double doubles and play very good defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said: Nobody. And that really is the question facing Ford for the next two years. When Goodwin and French graduate, then he will have to figure out how to live without them and that solution will likely be more conventional. It's easier to find a guard and a forward who can shoot free throws and play above average defense than it is to find another Goodwin and French who can average double doubles and play very good defense. -I agree, French and especially Goodwin can't be replicated, they are once in a generation, perhaps once in a lifetime, players and we have them at the same time -let's enjoy this season and next and deal with Nov 2021 when it arrives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Cowboy said: -I agree, French and especially Goodwin can't be replicated, they are once in a generation, perhaps once in a lifetime, players and we have them at the same time -let's enjoy this season and next and deal with Nov 2021 when it arrives hopefully this is addressed to us and not coach ford, ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I have all kinds of tips for shooting free throws. But tip number one is recruit more players who are good free throw shooters. I admire the Jay Wright'sof the world that prioritize it in recruiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I agree with every compliment about JGood and French. We'll take them just the way the are. That said, here's the real problem with a poor FT shooting team. A SLU lead of 10 pts w/ 2 minutes left. Here's where 2 minutes stretches out to 15, 20, or more. The fouls will come fast and furious. They'll realize the odds are in their favor they're going to make this game a nail biter. Missed FT's become nothing more than TO's caused by a desperate team pressing to get the ball back. I'll predict we're going to see a few conference games where the above scenario is played out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 And that scenario is why we counter with Collins, Jimerson, Jacobs, Perkins, and whoever. We can even roll in our secret KY weapon. If they can’t create turnovers with four guards who shoot 70% + at the line, they also see guards defending the three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Sheltiedave said: And that scenario is why we counter with Collins, Jimerson, Jacobs, Perkins, and whoever. If they can’t create turnovers with four guards who shoot 70% + at the line, they also see guards defending the three. Why is yuri getting placed with the shooters? Hes sitting at a cool 48% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, wgstl said: Why is yuri getting placed with the shooters? Hes sitting at a cool 48% Ha, yes. TODAY, Jimmy Bell is a better FT shooter than Collins, 50.0% to 48.1%. Today are best 5, regardless of attempts and playing status: Jimerson 85.7% Perkins and Thatch, both 69.2% Jacobs 68.4% Hankton 60.0% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Why is Yuri places with the shooters? Two reasons... He is by far our best ball handler. With two healthy wrists, he is one of our best ft shooters. Wgst, if Bell is afraid to drive to the basket with the entire lane open, you and Hoosier are committing the fallacy of stats navel gazing without analysis. Bell cannot handle the ball under pressure to break a press. Yuri can, and does. This is akin to the Boston fans bemoaning the drafting of Larry Bird in the first round. They could not fathom a broken pinky finger on his shooting hand would result in so many errant shots against MSU in the title game. Judge players from their play when healthy, not while injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Sheltiedave said: Why is Yuri places with the shooters? Two reasons... He is by far our best ball handler. With two healthy wrists, he is one of our best ft shooters. Wgst, if Bell is afraid to drive to the basket with the entire lane open, you and Hoosier are committing the fallacy of stats navel gazing without analysis. Bell cannot handle the ball under pressure to break a press. Yuri can, and does. This is akin to the Boston fans bemoaning the drafting of Larry Bird in the first round. They could not fathom a broken pinky finger on his shooting hand would result in so many errant shots against MSU in the title game. Judge players from their play when healthy, not while injured. Agree. While Yuri is currently struggling, he had a good history in high school at St. Mary's. Averaged over all four years, he shot 68%. By his senior year it was 79% on 153-194 shooting. He'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Sheltiedave said: Why is Yuri places with the shooters? Two reasons... He is by far our best ball handler. With two healthy wrists, he is one of our best ft shooters. Wgst, if Bell is afraid to drive to the basket with the entire lane open, you and Hoosier are committing the fallacy of stats navel gazing without analysis. Bell cannot handle the ball under pressure to break a press. Yuri can, and does. This is akin to the Boston fans bemoaning the drafting of Larry Bird in the first round. They could not fathom a broken pinky finger on his shooting hand would result in so many errant shots against MSU in the title game. Judge players from their play when healthy, not while injured. ah my bad, I thought you were splitting players just based on FTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 Well if the purpose of this thread was say....being last in Div 1 is unacceptable....To draw attention to the fact that we are at historical lows in FT shooting and we are better than this....and to draw attention by lighting a FT fire....then this thread was successful....going from games where it was a struggle to get 60% or even 50%...to an amazing 77%....where F- FT games were the norm to a B+ FT game (1 shot short of an A+) Many on the board will credit Hargrove with the boost....and he certainly had an outstanding game shooting 9-12....75% ( not to mention the rest of his game) But let us not forget ...the rest of the team shot 14-18 for 78%...including Collins and Perkins who shot 100% ...9-9. The purpose of this post is to give a tip o' the cap to the Bills for an outstanding shooting effort from the charity stripe.....I call them as I see them....When it is bad I say it ...and when It is good, I also write about it... and tonight it was better than good...it was a double chicken sandwich night...you get a free chicken sandwich for 10 FTM ...we did 23 FTM...thus a double chicken sandwich night. Great job Bills....keep it up. Bay Area Billiken and Old guy like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBeliever!!! Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 The reason we shot good from the line tonight was because French was out and Goodwin only shot 3 times (1-3). The rest of the team is at least decent from the line but most of our FTs come from JG and HF which brings the average way down willie and RUBillsFan like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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