A10 Scores and Comments

[billiken_roy]

Just now, Adman said:

Correct, correct. I'd also add no more S1, S2, etc.

At risk of sounding like a broken record from similar things I've posted on attendance over the years, don't forget SLU was one of the top teams in average attendance in the entire NCAA in the mid/late '90s. Three times Top 10, six times Top 20. 

• 1995   17,714     #7
• 1996   16,986     #7
• 1997   13,732     #18
• 1998   17,708     #6
• 1999   15,142     #12
• 2000   13,631     #20

The market is there folks. A popular coach, excellent product, excellent marketing, couple local stars in the mix -- and consistent winning. Some have said some of this success was due to no NFL team. I disagree; the NFL fan is different from college basketball fan, particularly of private school SLU. If the product is right, fans will come. Regardless, there's no NFL team at the moment.

And remember, this was achieved before the Top 50 program commitment plans were realized: pre-Majerus, pre-Chaifetz, pre-increased bball funding, etc.

It's wide open if we do what CBFan says.

I believe there is an amount of pro sports dollars that just will get spent.   prior to the rams coming and becoming good, that money was there for the taking and spoonball and our wonderful character/spokesman/coach charlie spoonhour grabbed the dollars.   

yes no nfl dollars right now, however we aka st louis, is currently still on a hockey high.   while we continue same ole same ole, the blues are packing them in night after night.

until we are an ncaa contender year in and year out, it will remain as is imo.   got to climb to the next level before we have the automatic sell outs.  

[Adman]

29 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

totally agree.   you get a conference with mostly public schools we are in trouble particularly with the non-revenue sports.   

the only conference to consider besides the A10 is the big east and then only if they take us as a total equal member and assist with exit and entry fees like most conference moves.   

we really are in the best place.   yes campaign for weak sisters like fordham to look for a new home and to draft the likes of loyola, but in all likelihood we are in the best place for now imo.  

agree, roy. for the moment, A10 is best. public school league puts us in trouble vs non-rev, overall funding, and isn't home to cities of great importance in student recruiting.

the best is big east. as equal partner. that only happens when we make strong case our basketball product is worthy of it, year after consistent year. historically, our brand hasn't been there.

[dennis_w]

20 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

I believe there is an amount of pro sports dollars that just will get spent.   prior to the rams coming and becoming good, that money was there for the taking and spoonball and our wonderful character/spokesman/coach charlie spoonhour grabbed the dollars.   

yes no nfl dollars right now, however we aka st louis, is currently still on a hockey high.   while we continue same ole same ole, the blues are packing them in night after night.

until we are an ncaa contender year in and year out, it will remain as is imo.   got to climb to the next level before we have the automatic sell outs.  

spot on roy, winning is the key and it will take some time. the tourney run helped and now have to put another on top of it. Dance this year and it could be the beginning of a long string of appearances

 

[Adman]

5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

I believe there is an amount of pro sports dollars that just will get spent.   prior to the rams coming and becoming good, that money was there for the taking and spoonball and our wonderful character/spokesman/coach charlie spoonhour grabbed the dollars.   

yes no nfl dollars right now, however we aka st louis, is currently still on a hockey high.   while we continue same ole same ole, the blues are packing them in night after night.

until we are an ncaa contender year in and year out, it will remain as is imo.   got to climb to the next level before we have the automatic sell outs.  

really agree with last sentence... and the same ole same ole comment. solving for that is crucial. we must truly be Top 50 year after year. a contender. not the Cincinnati reds (apologies to cincy fans.)

sorta agree otherwise. no doubt, it does get somewhat harder to grab dollars (tickets $ and sponsorship $) when there are more teams and/or they're having big success. but fans find the dough when the product is really compelling. and slu tickets are cheap. we just haven't been consistently compelling. one step forward, one back.

the total pro sports dollar isn't fixed. demand drives it. cards fans dig deep for exorbitantly priced playoff tickets during playoff seasons. blues fans, ditto. if the product's great, it'll come out of other entertainment/leisure budgets... movies, concerts, travel and more. or they'll save less. or they'll ring up credit card debt. or all of the above. 

[Old guy]

5 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

I hope you are right.  For those of us who experienced a packed Arena with Highmark, Claggett and Waldman, we can only hope that type of energy and atmosphere reappears.  But times have changed, and overall college hoops attendance, along with football, is declining. 

It is still early, but I was expecting a bump in this season's attendance.  We obviously have some attractive dates coming up (okay 2), but our tourney appearance plus local talent isn't turning out the folks that I had hoped for.  We are averaging 6,299.  Maryville and Bethune Cookman likely won't raise that average, so we have the 9 conference games to turn out bigger crowds.  Last season we averaged 6,890, so it will be interesting to see if we top that mark.  Last season we averaged 6,984 for the nine conference games.  Our games with Dayton and VCU should draw large crowds, but the rest are suspect. 

There is another factor determining the size of the Chaifetz, it was designed as a multipurpose arena, not only a basketball arena. It does hold multiple performances by different groups and it has been the venue for at least one Cirque deSoleil show/extravaganza. For some of these purposes, 10,000 may be a bit small, but doable. I really do not think the Chaifetz arena is losing money due to poor or mediocre attendance to basketball games.

[slufanskip]

2 hours ago, Adman said:

Correct, correct. I'd also add no more S1, S2, etc.

At risk of sounding like a broken record from similar things I've posted on attendance over the years, don't forget SLU was one of the top teams in average attendance in the entire NCAA in the mid/late '90s. Three times Top 10, six times Top 20. 

• 1995   17,714     #7
• 1996   16,986     #7
• 1997   13,732     #18
• 1998   17,708     #6
• 1999   15,142     #12
• 2000   13,631     #20

The market is there folks. A popular coach, excellent product, excellent marketing, couple local stars in the mix -- and consistent winning. Some have said some of this success was due to no NFL team. I disagree; the NFL fan is different from college basketball fan, particularly of private school SLU. If the product is right, fans will come. Regardless, there's no NFL team at the moment.

And remember, this was achieved before the Top 50 program commitment plans were realized: pre-Majerus, pre-Chaifetz, pre-increased bball funding, etc.

It's wide open if we do what CBFan says.

The NFL argument doesn't work here as the NFL was here for every one of those years listed above. 

[Compton]

4 hours ago, Adman said:

Correct, correct. I'd also add no more S1, S2, etc.

At risk of sounding like a broken record from similar things I've posted on attendance over the years, don't forget SLU was one of the top teams in average attendance in the entire NCAA in the mid/late '90s. Three times Top 10, six times Top 20. 

• 1995   17,714     #7
• 1996   16,986     #7
• 1997   13,732     #18
• 1998   17,708     #6
• 1999   15,142     #12
• 2000   13,631     #20

The market is there folks. A popular coach, excellent product, excellent marketing, couple local stars in the mix -- and consistent winning. Some have said some of this success was due to no NFL team. I disagree; the NFL fan is different from college basketball fan, particularly of private school SLU. If the product is right, fans will come. Regardless, there's no NFL team at the moment.

And remember, this was achieved before the Top 50 program commitment plans were realized: pre-Majerus, pre-Chaifetz, pre-increased bball funding, etc.

It's wide open if we do what CBFan says.

Those were some heady days in C-USA: Cincy, DePaul, Louisville, Marquette, Memphis, Houston, UAB. 

A lot of those match-ups would have helped fill seats more than any in the A10. 

[Adman]

3 hours ago, slufanskip said:

The NFL argument doesn't work here as the NFL was here for every one of those years listed above. 

Hah, right you are!

[Crewsorlose]

A-10 goes 4 for 4 tonight. Not great margins, considering the competition (Niagara and Wagner 300+ on KenPom), but good for the conference. Saturday one of the last big days that will determine whether A-10 can stay as 7th best conference, and put itself in line for 3 or 4 bids. 

SLU - K-State, Dayton - Colorado, VCU - Wichita, URI - W. Kentucky. If the A-10 can go 3-1 in those games...

[RUBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Crewsorlose said:

A-10 goes 4 for 4 tonight. Not great margins, considering the competition (Niagara and Wagner 300+ on KenPom), but good for the conference. Saturday one of the last big days that will determine whether A-10 can stay as 7th best conference, and put itself in line for 3 or 4 bids. 

SLU - K-State, Dayton - Colorado, VCU - Wichita, URI - W. Kentucky. If the A-10 can go 3-1 in those games...

Only A10 game on the schedule tonight is St. Joes at home vs William & Mary.  Hawks have a 8 game losing streak going.  KenPom has St. Joe's with a 44% to win.  This is actually the Hawks best chance at a win until they play Fordham at home on February 29th.  Hopefully, they can make the best of their opportunity to end the losing skid or it might be a very very long rough stretch for them.  Any game A10 wins that they're expected to lose is good for us.

[billikenfan05]

On 12/17/2019 at 7:55 PM, Compton said:

Those were some heady days in C-USA: Cincy, DePaul, Louisville, Marquette, Memphis, Houston, UAB. 

A lot of those match-ups would have helped fill seats more than any in the A10. 

We had 20k for an Austin Peay game

[Taj79]

I disagree on "good for the conference' on games last night.  It was totally boring.  The only question would be Richmond winning on the road at rival Old Dominion.  But ODU was 3 and 8 coming in.  As a matter of fact, the records of the opposition last night were a collective 12 and 29 for  a winning percentage of .292.  Bill and mare is actually favored by 1 tonight at the Joeys. 

But spot on with Saturday being a big day for the A10.  Opponents include KState, Colorado, Western Kentucky  and Wichita State.  Duquesne is playing in the St. Pete Shootout against a .500 Austin Peay.  Let's see if they can stay unbeaten.  Dayton and Colorado ar eat eh United Center in Chicago.  Us and VCU at Wichita State are only true road games.  Rhodey hosts WKU.

[cheeseman]

10 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I disagree on "good for the conference' on games last night.  It was totally boring.  The only question would be Richmond winning on the road at rival Old Dominion.  But ODU was 3 and 8 coming in.  As a matter of fact, the records of the opposition last night were a collective 12 and 29 for  a winning percentage of .292.  Bill and mare is actually favored by 1 tonight at the Joeys. 

But spot on with Saturday being a big day for the A10.  Opponents include KState, Colorado, Western Kentucky  and Wichita State.  Duquesne is playing in the St. Pete Shootout against a .500 Austin Peay.  Let's see if they can stay unbeaten.  Dayton and Colorado ar eat eh United Center in Chicago.  Us and VCU at Wichita State are only true road games.  Rhodey hosts WKU.

Would you be willing to say that since they won all the games that no harm was done?  If so one could say that if no harm was done then it was not a bad night therefore one could surmise that it was good?

[Crewsorlose]

4 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Would you be willing to say that since they won all the games that no harm was done?  If so one could say that if no harm was done then it was not a bad night therefore one could surmise that it was good?

Thanks, Cheese, that was my point. Meanwhile, Belmont has won every game, except a lost to E Washington, since they played us. And E Washingon's only blemish is a 10-pt. loss to U Washington. Little things help. Our RPI SOS is 74, and KenPom is 219, which is way up from the 290s earlier, and that's not just on the strength of playing Auburn.

[HoosierPal]

interesting.  This adds to the strong night, last night, for the A10.

[glazedandconfused]

31 minutes ago, Crewsorlose said:

Thanks, Cheese, that was my point. Meanwhile, Belmont has won every game, except a lost to E Washington, since they played us. And E Washingon's only blemish is a 10-pt. loss to U Washington. Little things help. Our RPI SOS is 74, and KenPom is 219, which is way up from the 290s earlier, and that's not just on the strength of playing Auburn.

Nice to see Eastern Washington up to 86 in NET Rating. Don't think they'll stay there but if they can climb into top 75 thats a Quad 2 win by 22 points. A close game (or win) vs Gonzaga this Saturday would help.

[Compton]

4 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

We had 20k for an Austin Peay game

Wow. That’s impressive. A lot of love for the Bills there, but also probably a lot of interest in seeing the brand new arena. Especially as the Bills had it to themselves with the Blues not playing yet. 

[Taj79]

I'd surmise it was a night ... dark, little sunshine, if any.  Gradual ligthening towards dawn. 

The A10 will cannibalize itself.  Dayton and VCU will rise to the top.  I have no expectations that  Duquesne or Mason will maintain at 9 and 0 and 10 and 1.  I have no respect for them whatsoever despite what the NET says.  I still don't respect Bonaventure any.  Injury to Osunniyi or not.  They have three sophomores and two freshmen.  Not a prescription for success in Olean IMHO.  The real jostling I expect to be between us, Rhode Island, Richmond and Davidson with Richmond one injury away from disaster and two injuries away from bust.  Of course, both Mason and Duquesne could mentally benefit from their starts and be better for it.  All this means that the third A10 team in the Dance will come from an unexpected A10 tourney win -- like us last year.  Dayton could go undefeated with VCU slightly behind them.  Or flip it.  They are the top two.  the rest could all be 11 and 7 which does no one any real good except make Brooklyn all more important and winnable by any number of teams. 

I thought 8 and 5 was a reasonable OOC expectations.  I now expect to bust that and finish 11 and 2.  I think we beat Kstate.  Now I look to the A10 season.  You have to win out at home i fyou ask me and th ebiggest hindrances there are visits by Dayton and VCU.  Can we really go 9 and 0 at home?  The road is then interesting as you go to improving programs at Richmond, Davidson, Mason and Duquesne.  You've go tough ones at Rhodey and Dayton.  In a worst-case, that's six losses possible. 

So I am one not that wrapped up in the NEt or rankings, or RPI or BPI or whatever.  Frankly, it seems to be win and go from there.  Worrying about the numbers across the board is useless.

 

 

 

[billikenfan05]

14 minutes ago, Compton said:

Wow. That’s impressive. A lot of love for the Bills there, but also probably a lot of interest in seeing the brand new arena. Especially as the Bills had it to themselves with the Blues not playing yet. 

I had forgotten that. I don’t know if you listen to the podcast but we’re releasing a huge spoonball era interview on Christmas and that’s one of the topics. 

[Crewsorlose]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

I'd surmise it was a night ... dark, little sunshine, if any.  Gradual ligthening towards dawn. 

The A10 will cannibalize itself.  Dayton and VCU will rise to the top.  I have no expectations that  Duquesne or Mason will maintain at 9 and 0 and 10 and 1.  I have no respect for them whatsoever despite what the NET says.  I still don't respect Bonaventure any.  Injury to Osunniyi or not.  They have three sophomores and two freshmen.  Not a prescription for success in Olean IMHO.  The real jostling I expect to be between us, Rhode Island, Richmond and Davidson with Richmond one injury away from disaster and two injuries away from bust.  Of course, both Mason and Duquesne could mentally benefit from their starts and be better for it.  All this means that the third A10 team in the Dance will come from an unexpected A10 tourney win -- like us last year.  Dayton could go undefeated with VCU slightly behind them.  Or flip it.  They are the top two.  the rest could all be 11 and 7 which does no one any real good except make Brooklyn all more important and winnable by any number of teams. 

I thought 8 and 5 was a reasonable OOC expectations.  I now expect to bust that and finish 11 and 2.  I think we beat Kstate.  Now I look to the A10 season.  You have to win out at home i fyou ask me and th ebiggest hindrances there are visits by Dayton and VCU.  Can we really go 9 and 0 at home?  The road is then interesting as you go to improving programs at Richmond, Davidson, Mason and Duquesne.  You've go tough ones at Rhodey and Dayton.  In a worst-case, that's six losses possible. 

So I am one not that wrapped up in the NEt or rankings, or RPI or BPI or whatever.  Frankly, it seems to be win and go from there.  Worrying about the numbers across the board is useless.

 

 

 

Don't understand the pessimism. I mean, yes, worrying is useless, but so is a message board. 

A-10 won't necessarily cannibalize itself. It will hurt the league if nobody can benefit from Dayton's top 10 status by upsetting them. But let's say Dayton goes 14-4, those 4 losses are all big wins for other programs. Big, NET-boosting wins. Nobody from the ACC is looking at things and saying, now we're all going to cannibalize each other. The league has put itself in great position, and several teams have done the same, so that a Richmond, a Duquesne, or a SLU will all have ample chances to make their cases. It's a climb for SLU, but they do have 11 more chances for Q1 and Q2 victories, as things now stand, and they're ranked 67 without a single Q1 or Q2 victory.  

It's a far cry from needing to win 4 straight in Brooklyn to dance. 

[HoosierPal]

This would put likely 4 conference teams in the NCAA.

[Quality Is Job 1]

4 hours ago, Taj79 said:

I disagree on "good for the conference' on games last night.  It was totally boring.  The only question would be Richmond winning on the road at rival Old Dominion.  But ODU was 3 and 8 coming in.  As a matter of fact, the records of the opposition last night were a collective 12 and 29 for  a winning percentage of .292.  Bill and mare is actually favored by 1 tonight at the Joeys. 

But spot on with Saturday being a big day for the A10.  Opponents include KState, Colorado, Western Kentucky  and Wichita State.  Duquesne is playing in the St. Pete Shootout against a .500 Austin Peay.  Let's see if they can stay unbeaten.  Dayton and Colorado ar eat eh United Center in Chicago.  Us and VCU at Wichita State are only true road games.  Rhodey hosts WKU.

Kansas State's home is in Manhattan, Kansas.  The game Saturday is in Kansas City, Missouri.  While K-State does play a game in K.C.'s Sprint Center every year, I don't think it's a "true road game" for the Bills.

[wgstl]

2 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Kansas State's home is in Manhattan, Kansas.  The game Saturday is in Kansas City, Missouri.  While K-State does play a game in K.C.'s Sprint Center every year, I don't think it's a "true road game" for the Bills.

Right, this isnt like the auburn game in Birmingham 

[RUBillsFan]

15 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Kansas State's home is in Manhattan, Kansas.  The game Saturday is in Kansas City, Missouri.  While K-State does play a game in K.C.'s Sprint Center every year, I don't think it's a "true road game" for the Bills.

It's 1 hour 45 mins from Manhattan to KC versus 3 hours 45 mins from St. Louis.  Over double the driving time plus KState plays in the arena annually vs SLU only having played there once several year ago makes it closer to the Auburn game than a true neutral site game in my mind.

It is basically like Mizzou playing DePaul at the Enterprise Center.  Is that a true neutral site game?

[Littlebill]

10 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

It's 1 hour 45 mins from Manhattan to KC versus 3 hours 45 mins from St. Louis.  Over double the driving time plus KState plays in the arena annually vs SLU only having played there once several year ago makes it closer to the Auburn game than a true neutral site game in my mind.

It is basically like Mizzou playing DePaul at the Enterprise Center.  Is that a true neutral site game?

Also, k State’s athletic dept is the one selling the tickets.

the Miz-DePaul comp is a good one, geographically at least