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Five observations while beaching Belmont


Sheltiedave

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5 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Belmont is a veteran team that is very well coached, which showed with their stout defense on Collins. They Read his book thoroughly, and adeptly jumped his available passing lanes to create turnovers.

We can rant and rage about the poor game Collins played. Take a look back to the last season where we had to play rookies this much time, with Claggett, Highmark, Winfield, etc. What were we, 5-26 at the end of the season? What are we now, 6-1 and have played two team that will play in the dance, if without catastrophic circumstances.

Like it or not, Collins turbocharges our team in a vital fashion. When our rookies finally learn off ball screens and effective motion, the combination of speed, motion, 3 pt threats, power in the paint, and offensive rebounds can negate our  lack of height against most teams.

belmont has 11 freshman sophomores on their roster and both of their terrific guards kunkle and murphy are sophs.   i.e. not what i would consider veteran team.

i wouldnt count on off ball screens showing up.   this isnt rickma ball.  ford hasnt shown off ball screens for the most part since he's been here.   

quickly the gap between french and goodwin and the rest is becoming more and more significant.  they are the key's to the team at this point.   because of this, teams will focus on them and until the rest get better we are looking at future L's.   this was a game many expected an L but it took a game of his life from french to make that happen.   the good teams are going to put us in a position someone is going to have to rise up.  right now my 3 games over 500 is still a good pick imo.   

wish i will be proven wrong.   

the big recruit miss for this season is not being able to land the other experienced inside player and instead having to settle for weaver.   we all know french will have foul trouble nights and when that happens vs the good teams we may not have the answers to compete.    

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Roy, I’m at two games above .500. I’m not worried about postseason, but Ford is showing with his player patterns that he expects the development not to be at the expense of wins. He is so competitive that he wants both every game.

im totally with you on the transfer big. My razor focus on Bell is due to seeing in the practices I have caught that 15-20 mpg of competent play from him is the single major missing component to a very solid young team. Getting only 5-12 minutes will turn the majority of <8 pt games into losses, him getting 15+ mpg will turn the majority of these games into wins.

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23 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

belmont has 11 freshman sophomores on their roster and both of their terrific guards kunkle and murphy are sophs.   i.e. not what i would consider veteran team.

i wouldnt count on off ball screens showing up.   this isnt rickma ball.  ford hasnt shown off ball screens for the most part since he's been here.   

quickly the gap between french and goodwin and the rest is becoming more and more significant.  they are the key's to the team at this point.   because of this, teams will focus on them and until the rest get better we are looking at future L's.   this was a game many expected an L but it took a game of his life from french to make that happen.   the good teams are going to put us in a position someone is going to have to rise up.  right now my 3 games over 500 is still a good pick imo.   

wish i will be proven wrong.   

the big recruit miss for this season is not being able to land the other experienced inside player and instead having to settle for weaver.   we all know french will have foul trouble nights and when that happens vs the good teams we may not have the answers to compete.    

I predicted a record of 19-14, with the offense scoring 71 ppg and giving up 68 ppg.  We are currently averaging 74 ppg and giving up 65 ppg with a lot of video out on how to stop us from scoring.  It was well known going into the season what our collective strengths and weaknesses were.  To those thinking with their head instead of their heart, it's playing out as expected.

Sheltie has the offensive prescription for what ails us but if you put a gun to his head, I doubt he expects all of those things to happen this season. Coach Ford stands a much better chance of success in making us stout on defense, which is why keeps harping on it.

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46 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

belmont has 11 freshman sophomores on their roster and both of their terrific guards kunkle and murphy are sophs.   i.e. not what i would consider veteran team.

i wouldnt count on off ball screens showing up.   this isnt rickma ball.  ford hasnt shown off ball screens for the most part since he's been here.   

quickly the gap between french and goodwin and the rest is becoming more and more significant.  they are the key's to the team at this point.   because of this, teams will focus on them and until the rest get better we are looking at future L's.   this was a game many expected an L but it took a game of his life from french to make that happen.   the good teams are going to put us in a position someone is going to have to rise up.  right now my 3 games over 500 is still a good pick imo.   

wish i will be proven wrong.   

the big recruit miss for this season is not being able to land the other experienced inside player and instead having to settle for weaver.   we all know french will have foul trouble nights and when that happens vs the good teams we may not have the answers to compete.    

So far we've had Collins, Jacobs, and Jimmerson "step up" at various times. 

Fred Thatch is extremely disappointing so far this year. He needs to be better. 

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37 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

belmont has 11 freshman sophomores on their roster and both of their terrific guards kunkle and murphy are sophs.   i.e. not what i would consider veteran team.

i wouldnt count on off ball screens showing up.   this isnt rickma ball.  ford hasnt shown off ball screens for the most part since he's been here.   

quickly the gap between french and goodwin and the rest is becoming more and more significant.  they are the key's to the team at this point.   because of this, teams will focus on them and until the rest get better we are looking at future L's.   this was a game many expected an L but it took a game of his life from french to make that happen.   the good teams are going to put us in a position someone is going to have to rise up.  right now my 3 games over 500 is still a good pick imo.   

wish i will be proven wrong.   

the big recruit miss for this season is not being able to land the other experienced inside player and instead having to settle for weaver.   we all know french will have foul trouble nights and when that happens vs the good teams we may not have the answers to compete.    

Roy.  Not saying you are wrong.  Instead, I suggest that there are 2 sides to every coin and that every 1/2 empty glass is also 1/2 full.   

Negative view.   Belmont is also young and did not have a great shooting night - and not all b/c of our defense.   Our win required an incredible game from French and that is not going to happen each and every game.   Other teams will scout and game plan even more against French and Goodwin. And our FT shooting is bad.  Our forward depth is slim.  Our new guys have not learned the offense and are not playing defense like we want/need to beat VCU and Davidson.

Positive view.   We are 6-1 and won the game - a game we were supposed to lose - and a game in which we frankly  did not play well.  Our rebounding is truly  a special skill and attribute for this team.  Yuri will not play this way the rest of the season. Thatch did not play much.  Jimerson's shot did not fall but will in many games the rest of the year.   Jacobs did not have a great game - and can play better.   Perkins is making improvements game by game and will get better in the future. Bell looks so much better than he did in our first game - and will only improve. Weaver is still learning - and will play more as he adjusts/expands his game.  Hargrove did not play last night but will have an impact before this season is over.  In short, we won't need a career game/second half from French if the others up their games as they can/should.

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9 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

So far we've had Collins, Jacobs, and Jimmerson "step up" at various times. 

Fred Thatch is extremely disappointing so far this year. He needs to be better. 

The only thing that has been extremely disappointing about Thatch is his outside shot. His 2 pt percentage, free throws and rebounding are all improved. 

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2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

I keep hearing how inconsistent Perkins D is but upon closer inspection, his man rarely scores on him.  I think people look at Perkins' gliding style and jump to conclusions about his effectiveness on defense.  The only thing I would change about how he plays is to stop jacking up so many threes, which I suspect he's doing because he's been told a long two is a bad shot.  But a long two is good percentage shot for him.

Yesterday, Perkins set up on the 3 point line, faked a shot, took a dribble or 2 inside the line, and attempted a long 2 pointer - yet missed. Growth is taking place.

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Just now, 3star_recruit said:

The only thing that has been extremely disappointing about Thatch is his outside shot. His 2 pt percentage, free throws and rebounding are all improved. 

Fair point. Shooting from the hip with my "analysis." MBM moment. Hope he can improve it. I have the same feeling when he shoots 3s as when French is shooting free throws. 

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3 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

The only thing that has been extremely disappointing about Thatch is his outside shot. His 2 pt percentage, free throws and rebounding are all improved. 

Depends upon your expectations of him prior to the season I guess.  If Thatch is a member of the Big 3 - then the quantity of shots is also disappointing - he need to be more aggressive, call for the ball and shoot the ball.   Scott Highmark suggested the same as well.

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8 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Depends upon your expectations of him prior to the season I guess.  If Thatch is a member of the Big 3 - then the quantity of shots is also disappointing - he need to be more aggressive, call for the ball and shoot the ball.   Scott Highmark suggested the same as well.

Thatch was part of the big 3 by default. Yuri's importance on offense effectively supplants Thatch and makes Yuri the third member of the big 3. If Jimerson continues to defend like last game, his potential on offense could make it a big 4.

Thatch most likely will settle in as the two-way leader of the second unit. That's a 6 ppg guy, not a 10 ppg guy.

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1 minute ago, 3star_recruit said:

Thatch was part of the big 3 by default. Yuri's importance on offense effectively supplants Thatch and makes Yuri the third member of the big 3. If Jimerson continues to defend like last game, his potential on offense could make it a big 4.

Thatch most likely will settle in as the two-way leader of the second unit. That's a 6 ppg guy, not a 10 ppg guy.

Not sure what you mean with "by default."   Maybe coach-speak, but these were the words of Coach Ford and what appeared to be a big marketing campaign.   When I questioned the role of Thatch, I was told by many on this board how great his defense was/is - and that he will be a starter/member of the Big 3 for his defense alone.   Still waiting for his offensive production/mostly perimeter and cutting him slack because he has been sick - yet was fearless and a warrior against Seton Hall.  But now you suggest he may be a two-way leader of the second unit?   

And yes, Yuri has been special and a favorite of Coach Ford.   Yuri's minutes tell the story.   But Yuri is a small, play-making PG who can see the court and distribute -- none of which Thatch can do.  Yuri was not to shoot the 3 but Thatch was.   Thatch, instead, was a member of the Big 3 because of his defense, his grasp of the offense and his improved offensive game - including his 3 point shot. Believe you suggest that he always has had his offensive game but that he accepted his role of a defensive specialist last year.  Why would unexpected play by Yuri supplant Thatch?  Why not the Big 4 instead of a different Big 3 and dropping Thatch to a two-way player of the second unit? 

I have said all along -- Thatch does much of what Goodwin can do -- which is slash to the basket, score from within 5 feet and rebound.   And if Yuri also dribbles to the basket but doesn't shoot,  then we need someone else to play a guard position who can shoot -- and so far, Thatch has not proven he can shoot.   Instead, shooting has been hot and cold (more cold than hot) by Jimerson and Jacobs (though both are making real strides) and while shooting has been good with Weaver (his other parts of his game are not up to Coach Ford's standards) and while Perkins is an offensive machine (his grasp of the offense/defense is still a work in progress).

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20 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Not sure what you mean with "by default."   Maybe coach-speak, but these were the words of Coach Ford and what appeared to be a big marketing campaign.   When I questioned the role of Thatch, I was told by many on this board how great his defense was/is - and that he will be a starter/member of the Big 3 for his defense alone.   Still waiting for his offensive production/mostly perimeter and cutting him slack because he has been sick - yet was fearless and a warrior against Seton Hall.  But now you suggest he may be a two-way leader of the second unit?   

And yes, Yuri has been special and a favorite of Coach Ford.   Yuri's minutes tell the story.   But Yuri is a small, play-making PG who can see the court and distribute -- none of which Thatch can do.  Yuri was not to shoot the 3 but Thatch was.   Thatch, instead, was a member of the Big 3 because of his defense, his grasp of the offense and his improved offensive game - including his 3 point shot. Believe you suggest that he always has had his offensive game but that he accepted his role of a defensive specialist last year.  Why would unexpected play by Yuri supplant Thatch?  Why not the Big 4 instead of a different Big 3 and dropping Thatch to a two-way player of the second unit? 

I have said all along -- Thatch does much of what Goodwin can do -- which is slash to the basket, score from within 5 feet and rebound.   And if Yuri also dribbles to the basket but doesn't shoot,  then we need someone else to play a guard position who can shoot -- and so far, Thatch has not proven he can shoot.   Instead, shooting has been hot and cold (more cold than hot) by Jimerson and Jacobs (though both are making real strides) and while shooting has been good with Weaver (his other parts of his game are not up to Coach Ford's standards) and while Perkins is an offensive machine (his grasp of the offense/defense is still a work in progress).

Who suggested/said yuri or thatch was an either or?

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

Who suggested/said yuri or thatch was an either or?

3 Star

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Thatch was part of the big 3 by default. Yuri's importance on offense effectively supplants Thatch and makes Yuri the third member of the big 3. If Jimerson continues to defend like last game, his potential on offense could make it a big 4.

Thatch most likely will settle in as the two-way leader of the second unit. That's a 6 ppg guy, not a 10 ppg guy.

 

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2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Roy.  Not saying you are wrong.  Instead, I suggest that there are 2 sides to every coin and that every 1/2 empty glass is also 1/2 full.   

Negative view.   Belmont is also young and did not have a great shooting night - and not all b/c of our defense.   Our win required an incredible game from French and that is not going to happen each and every game.   Other teams will scout and game plan even more against French and Goodwin. And our FT shooting is bad.  Our forward depth is slim.  Our new guys have not learned the offense and are not playing defense like we want/need to beat VCU and Davidson.

Positive view.   We are 6-1 and won the game - a game we were supposed to lose - and a game in which we frankly  did not play well.  Our rebounding is truly  a special skill and attribute for this team.  Yuri will not play this way the rest of the season. Thatch did not play much.  Jimerson's shot did not fall but will in many games the rest of the year.   Jacobs did not have a great game - and can play better.   Perkins is making improvements game by game and will get better in the future. Bell looks so much better than he did in our first game - and will only improve. Weaver is still learning - and will play more as he adjusts/expands his game.  Hargrove did not play last night but will have an impact before this season is over.  In short, we won't need a career game/second half from French if the others up their games as they can/should.

Yes sir, I am in full agreement with most of what you say. Some points I want to make:

1. Yuri and Jimerson have been captured in tapes from prior games this season. They are not unknown to the opposition, as Hargrove remains, instead they  are known threats that need to be neutralized. Play will be harder for these two now that they are recognized as threats. I am confident they will learn a lot this year and continue improving.

2. We are now at 5-1.

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12 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Yes sir, I am in full agreement with most of what you say. Some points I want to make:

1. Yuri and Jimerson have been captured in tapes from prior games this season. They are not unknown to the opposition, as Hargrove remains, instead they  are known threats that need to be neutralized. Play will be harder for these two now that they are recognized as threats. I am confident they will learn a lot this year and continue improving.

2. We are now at 5-1.

Agree that they will be facing defenses that know them better moving forward, but it’s nice that we now have four guys (Goodwin, French, Collins, Jimerson) for whom the scouting reports are all essentially “don’t let them get the ball with any space whatsoever.” That’s a nearly impossible task. And Jacobs is quietly having a very solid sophomore season, just needs to be more consistent. That’s our best five and leaves Goodwin as the de facto 4, but it’s what we’ve seen Ford roll with most this season, I’d suspect. 

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6 hours ago, almaman said:

he was a top five scorer in juco because he exerted minimal effort on D

Struggling to understand this?  

Almaman, juco top 5 scorers who also play P5 defense go to a Power 5 program.

Perkins always had the tag that he had the physical attributes to play D1 defense, which was code for he wasn’t quite there. 
His minutes were always secure because he was instant O. His principal defensive trait was he was a good rebounder, not a high motor defender. He focused 80% of his energy on O.

If you follow any juco play, great effort defenders always stand out. Very few coaches make their name on defense, so their players normally follow suit. Maybe I should have flipped the clauses, but both ways are most often true. You see the imbalance in his play even now, but he is working hard to bring up his D, and trying to learn team O at the same time.

 

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20 hours ago, Old guy said:

Yes sir, I am in full agreement with most of what you say. Some points I want to make:

1. Yuri and Jimerson have been captured in tapes from prior games this season. They are not unknown to the opposition

This is sorta a good thing imo 

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