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Coach Ford on the Radio


HoosierPal

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OK, so a fracture is a possibility. Let's go through fractures of the foot. When I talk about a boot, I mean a UNNA boot, the big black ruberized strapy contraption that wraps around your foot and ankle and immobilizes the works, not a tiny dinky boot. You can use a dinky boot to provide some support, an UNNA boot provides immobilization of the foot and ankle. Two very different things.

The real bad fractures involve the ankle joint (most likely  what Welmer had). The ankle joint is made by the end of the Tibia, and the end of the Fibula bound together by strong ligaments articulating against the top of the Talus on the ankle proper. This is not a very strong joint and can be disrupted. The really BAD fractures involve both the terminal ends of the Tibia and Fibula, or one of the terminal ends of one of the long bones and the Talus. This type of fracture is non weight bearing, and it is a difficult one to repair and even worse to expect that the fix will take a lot of the stress and abuse like this joint gets playing basketball. This is calledd a mortise fracture and just does not fix very well. However, this is not the reason for Jimerson's boot, he is fully weight bearing on that foot, so it is a safe bet that whatever he has does not involve the Tibia or the Talus, or probably the Fibula as well. The extreme end of the Fibula, the styloid process can break, but this does not compromise the ankle joint.

He could have a fracture elsewhere, most likely, not in the bunch of smaller bones of the ankle or the Calcaneous, because if this was the case he would not be fully weight bearing capable either. Calcaneous fractures rarely occur by themselves and usually signify a very bad prognosis for functional recovery ending with a fused ankle. So, that leaves green stick fractures or perhaps a toe bone fracture. Not major, painful, no problem with weight bearing.  This is the way it goes as far as foot and ankle fractures are concerned. Soft tissue/tendon injuries are possible as well with the boot used to immobilize the involved tissues and allow for swelling and inflammation to go down. I think he will be OK, unless this is a chronic problem that comes from before and something he has played with for a while.

So, ladies and gents when you see lower extremity injuries look at the degree of weight bearing they are being allowed to have, the kind of support boots they use, and whether or not they are using canes, crutches, or something like the little scooter Welmer used for his injury. If you see none of these, things may not be as bad as you fear. Someone like coach Tate IS very much hurt and limited by his injury, and his weight makes things a lot worse. Just a look at the injured person gives an educated eye a lot of  information as to  what is likely to be going on.

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oldguy,

When you say “greenstick fracture“ are you referring to a fracture in the metatarsal or some other bone? When I learned anatomy, greenstick fractures were referenced in relation only to infants and toddlers in that their bones are so soft that they are more stretched, for lack of a better word, than actually fractured.

In a case like Jimerson’s, my guess is a non-specific foot pain where the concern is the possible onset of a “stress reaction” in a metatarsal. I believe I remember reading that the 4th metatarsal is the one most vulnerable to injury.

I wasn’t educated on the term “stress reaction”, it was either a fractured metatarsal or it wasn’t. I’ll look it up to see what I can find out about it, but if you have familiarity with it, I’d like to hear your thoughts on what is meant by the term stress reaction with regard to foot pain.

 

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25 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

oldguy,

When you say “greenstick fracture“ are you referring to a fracture in the metatarsal or some other bone? When I learned anatomy, greenstick fractures were referenced in relation only to infants and toddlers in that their bones are so soft that they are more stretched, for lack of a better word, than actually fractured.

In a case like Jimerson’s, my guess is a non-specific foot pain where the concern is the possible onset of a “stress reaction” in a metatarsal. I believe I remember reading that the 4th metatarsal is the one most vulnerable to injury.

I wasn’t educated on the term “stress reaction”, it was either a fractured metatarsal or it wasn’t. I’ll look it up to see what I can find out about it, but if you have familiarity with it, I’d like to hear your thoughts on what is meant by the term stress reaction with regard to foot pain.

 

5th metatarsal is the one most injured, when one rolls the ankle the base of the 5th metatarsal is often fractured. i believe welmar likely had a fracture of a tarsal bone and this area typically doesnt have a great deal of blood flow so it is a slow healer. jimerson likely just had an ankle sprain and we hope it heals quickly and he doesnt miss many games

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6 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Dang they had a typo on the first tweet that said he was playing, then sent one right after saying he was not* playing.

 

 

the initial tweet has since been deleted 

Saw Carter's tweet quoting a deleted tweet which is why I went to their Twitter.  Makes sense.  

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Ford Track 12/19  https://www.ktrs.com/the-big-sports-show/  

Coach is in KC tonight (Thursday), talking to BenFred and Wiese.  New stuff below:

Told the team yesterday in a meeting, TJ took advantage of his opportunity.  TJ will be an elite player, timing is everything.  They have been getting him 'ready to go'.  He has to understand he isn't going to get 27 points every night.  He doesn't have to score 27 to make an impact.  He likely will get in the game early Sat.  Coach doesn't want to put pressure of high scoring on TJ.  Play hard, make an impact.

"Fred won't be playing".  [So much for that.]  "Game time on Hasahn and Gibson.  Trying to get things figured out with Gibson."

Goodwin has 6 double doubles in a row, and none are 'fluky'.  Not even Marcus Smart put up those types of numbers.  Best leader the past 2 and a half weeks of any player Ford ever has had.  Ford said Goodwin isn't worried about his stats, he just wants to win.  His play is contagious to the team.  Goodwin isn't overly athletic, he is relentless.  In last two games, Goodwin has had 30 deflections.  The next guy has 9.  Ford to team "What about the rest of you."  Said it's a competition between French and Goodwin on rebounding.

 

 

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3 hours ago, billikenbill said:

oldguy,

When you say “greenstick fracture“ are you referring to a fracture in the metatarsal or some other bone? When I learned anatomy, greenstick fractures were referenced in relation only to infants and toddlers in that their bones are so soft that they are more stretched, for lack of a better word, than actually fractured.

In a case like Jimerson’s, my guess is a non-specific foot pain where the concern is the possible onset of a “stress reaction” in a metatarsal. I believe I remember reading that the 4th metatarsal is the one most vulnerable to injury.

I wasn’t educated on the term “stress reaction”, it was either a fractured metatarsal or it wasn’t. I’ll look it up to see what I can find out about it, but if you have familiarity with it, I’d like to hear your thoughts on what is meant by the term stress reaction with regard to foot pain.

 

You have to realize that the idea of a bone fracture has always been dependent upon the means by which such a fracture is determined. For example if someone is in an accident of any kind that leaves him/her with pieces of bone jutting out through muscle and skin and a piece of his/her body hanging at a weird angle, there is no doubt at all that a bone has been fractured.

After the discovery of X Rays internal fractures that did not cause weird angles of the extremities but remained roughly in place, could be determined and treated, but the resolution of the standard X Rays was not that fine. Yes, little children could be seen with partial fractures, or assumed to have a separation of the cartilage growth plates from the body of the bone early on. Sometimes bone fissures could be identified in children and adults.

In sports as in other very physically demanding occupations the musculature and stresses to which a bone is subject to can surpass the ability of the bone to stay intact. After all you can get to grow a very strong set of muscles in a relatively short span of time. The bones will not grow in thickness in the same manner. There is a rearrangement of bony trabecula induced by repeated stress, but this occurs in the direction that the stress normally happens in a repetitive manner. It is possible to cause fissures in the bone near insertion sites of muscle tendons by very strong and unusual motion made by very muscular athletes and dancers. This may happen in poorly trained and unconditioned people attempting to run a marathon. These are not through and through fractures. The bone is mostly intact but it is cracked or fissured in some way that is not a through break. This both weakens the bone and predisposes the bone to actually fracture along the lines of the lines of the existing crack if continued stress is applied in similar ways to what had been experienced before. Of course, such a thing results in pain and discomfort. Sometimes these partial cracks or fissures are hard to diagnose, and largely invisible to the regular X Rays. I have always called these greenstick fractures. They are something you really do not want to have in an athlete, and something that should be allowed to heal before continuing full active play.

I remember watching a basketball game years ago,  where a star player's leg broke during a drive and split out of the skin in jagged pieces spurting blood everywhere. This was a young muscular guy who probably had some prior defect that weakened the bone which allowed the major break to occur. I do not know the full story about this. Remember, bones are not uniform, and they do not increase in density or strength as quickly as muscles can grow and develop.  That said, I think Jimerson's problem will not prevent him from playing again, it is not a major problem, not something that will sideline him for very long. I would be very worried if he had any problems with weight bearing.

Non specific foot pain is just an acknowledgement that you do not know what is causing it.

Finally, this is an empirical discussion of ankle and foot fractures, not an actual examination, diagnosis, and formulation of a treatment plan. You cannot diagnose anything accurately by just watching someone with a slight limp, a UNNA boot (assuming that is what he had on), and able to walk without assists albeit with a slight limp. However, you can discuss any number of things he might have, totally discard some possibilities, and cone down on others.

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14 minutes ago, Old guy said:

You have to realize that the idea of a bone fracture has always been dependent upon the means by which such a fracture is determined. For example if someone is in an accident of any kind that leaves him/her with pieces of bone jutting out through muscle and skin and a piece of his/her body hanging at a weird angle, there is no doubt at all that a bone has been fractured.

After the discovery of X Rays internal fractures that did not cause weird angles of the extremities but remained roughly in place, could be determined and treated, but the resolution of the standard X Rays was not that fine. Yes, little children could be seen with partial fractures, or assumed to have a separation of the cartilage growth plates from the body of the bone early on. Sometimes bone fissures could be identified in children and adults.

In sports as in other very physically demanding occupations the musculature and stresses to which a bone is subject to can surpass the ability of the bone to stay intact. After all you can get to grow a very strong set of muscles in a relatively short span of time. The bones will not grow in thickness in the same manner. There is a rearrangement of bony trabecula induced by repeated stress, but this occurs in the direction that the stress normally happens in a repetitive manner. It is possible to cause fissures in the bone near insertion sites of muscle tendons by very strong and unusual motion made by very muscular athletes and dancers. These are not through and through fractures. The bone is mostly intact but it is cracked or weakened in some way that is not a through break. This both weakens the bone and predisposes the bone to actually fracture along the lines of the lines of the existing crack if continued stress is applied in similar ways to what had been experienced before. Of this course, such a thing results in pain and discomfort. Sometimes these partial cracks or fissures are hard to diagnose, and largely invisible to the regular X Rays. I have always called these greenstick fractures. They are something you really do not want to have in an athlete, and something that should be allowed to heal before continuing full active play.

I remember watching a basketball game years ago,  where a star player's leg broke during a drive and split out of the skin in jagged pieces spurting blood everywhere. This was a young muscular guy who probably had some prior defect that weakened the bone which allowed the major break to occur. I do not know the full story about this. Remember, bones are not uniform, and they do not increase in density or strength as quickly as muscles can grow and develop.  That said, I think Jimerson's problem will not prevent him from playing again, it is not a major problem, not something that will sideline him for very long.

Non specific foot pain is just an acknowledgement that you do not know what is causing it.

Didn't know dancers go so hard in the paint.

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22 minutes ago, jimbofive said:

Didn't know dancers go so hard in the paint.

This is serious Jimbo. Social Security Disability has developed over the years a lot of data on the exertional requirements of various occupations and compiled it in something referred to as DOT (Dictionary of Occupational Titles). This is a compilation of the level of physical, mental, and training or education required by every recognizable occupation in the US. It used to be available in two thick paper volumes, I think it is accessible in the net nowadays. Anyways, the two most physically demanding occupations (broadly defined) are professional sports athletes, and professional dancers.

If you are so inclined go see a performance of good modern dance by a group like Polybolous or Alvin Ailey and you will see how much strength and nimbleness they have to use while dancing. If you manage to sit close to the stage you will see the sweat pouring out of the dancers as they do their parts. It is really something to watch and all is done to music and making it look totally effortless.

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7 hours ago, Old guy said:

 

If you are so inclined go see a performance of good modern dance by a group like Polybolous or Alvin Ailey and you will see how much strength and nimbleness they have to use while dancing. If you manage to sit close to the stage you will see the sweat pouring out of the dancers as they do their parts. It is really something to watch and all is done to music and making it look totally effortless.

Also if you manage to sit close to the stage bring a bunch of singles! 

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I looked up stress reactions in the foot and found that it's a swelling in the metatarsal which is a precursor to a stress fracture. So, apparently, when athletes/dancers complain of foot pain but no fracture is apparent, precautions are taken and treatment is given to alleviate the swelling. Also, my memory failed me as I thought it was the 4th metatarsal most commonly fractured, but it is the 5th.

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8 hours ago, dlarry said:

Also if you manage to sit close to the stage bring a bunch of singles! 

You also need to be prepared with some extra cash. Frequently you can find one who you'd like to spend a little "alone" time with. And yes, even though she likes you better than everyone else, you have to remember this is her job and she should be fairly compensated commensurate with her unique talents

At least that's what someone told me. Moytoy and 05 can probably confirm specific prices and possibly even give you a reccomendation

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11 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Goodwin has 6 double doubles in a row, and none are 'fluky'.  Not even Marcus Smart put up those types of numbers.  

 

 

Speaking of Marcus Smart,  is it almost time for NBA scouts to start taking a deeper look at goodwin?

 

Smart was a lottery pick after his sophomore year.  And both players are pretty similar in style.

Smart as a sophomore :    42%FG -    51%2p -    29%3p -    72%ft -    5.9rb -     4.8ast -    2.9bls - 18ppg

Goodwin as a junior:           49%FG -    53%2P -    31%3P -   47%ft -   11.5rb   - 2.9ast -.    4bl -   16ppg

 

What he lacks in some statistic's he easily makes up in others.  It'll be interesting with the NBA prospects we currently have in the A10, if some eyes will catch on to Jgood.  Marcus is a great defender, which Goodwin will have to improve even more in. 

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Goodwin will get a real shot at the NBA, probably after next season. Like Bess, he will have not problem getting workouts and displaying his skills to prospective teams. He will have a nice and profitable pro career. Whether that is ultimately in the NBA will be TBD. His limiting factors will likely be his size and shooting. He is a great athlete, but no more so than most NBA guards. 

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