Coach Ford on the Radio

[billiken_roy]

auburn has more size and athleticism than we have seen this year.   i doubt we are going to shoot 60% from anywhere Saturday, let alone the 3 point circle.  Hate saying it, but likely cant run or press on them.   will have to play solid defense and keep turnovers to a minimum and hope they dont imo.   

[glazedandconfused]

2 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

auburn has more size and athleticism than we have seen this year.   i doubt we are going to shoot 60% from anywhere Saturday, let alone the 3 point circle.  Hate saying it, but likely cant run or press on them.   will have to play solid defense and keep turnovers to a minimum and hope they dont imo.   

Agreed. I would say, in my viewing experience it seems like we turn the ball over a lot more in transition/pushing the pace than we do in half court sets. This is probably true for a lot of teams, but I'm optimistic that we can keep turnovers down when the pace is slowed.

[Sheltiedave]

Quality, I should have structured that statement better. We average 73.8 ppg, Auburn is at 85 ppg.

We average shooting 20 threes a game, hitting 37%. If we hit all our averages for the season and only change our three point shooting, hitting at a 60% rate would generate an additional 14 pts, and (barely) a win, all other variables constant.

Of course, everything varies. We win by pushing all the variances we can to our benefit.

[Old guy]

Sheltiedave, also note that these stats are valid prior to our game with them. We hope to have an impact upon their stats. We will not need the extra 14 points if we hold them to under 70 pts.

[Matty Light]

6 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i have HATED pearl for years.   constant cheater going back to his Iowa assistant coaching days.

I am curious how he cheated while at Iowa.  Dr. Tom Davis ran a clean program.

[cheeseman]

29 minutes ago, Matty Light said:

I am curious how he cheated while at Iowa.  Dr. Tom Davis ran a clean program.

Pearl was the guy who turned in the assistant at IL for some kind of recruiting violation.  Some have painted Pearl with the scarlet letter so to speak.

[willie]

2 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Pearl was the guy who turned in the assistant at IL for some kind of recruiting violation.  Some have painted Pearl with the scarlet letter so to speak.

I actually like the fact that Pearl did this. Don’t exactly remember the circumstances but Illinois was offering Deon Thomas a Ford Bronco. Pearl taped a conversation and reported it to the NCAA. Something like this. Pearl took heat for being a snitch. His recruiting violations at Auburn were nothing compared to the Pitino’s of the world. 

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, Matty Light said:

I am curious how he cheated while at Iowa.  Dr. Tom Davis ran a clean program.

The one that sticks in my memory was his making up a story about the illini's dion thomas and then unknown to thomas got him to sonewhat confess to the story which then got the illini on probation for pearl's lie.   

[willie]

18 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

The one that sticks in my memory was his making up a story about the illini's dion thomas and then unknown to thomas got him to sonewhat confess to the story which then got the illini on probation for pearl's lie.   

Sounds to me like an Illinois fan. Don’t remember it as a lie. 

[Sheltiedave]

I remember it quite well, a good friend’s brother was the basketball student manager at Illinois that year.

Pearl was the Iowa recruiting asst. who was Thomas’ lead recruiter. After Thomas verballed to Illinois, Pearl kept badgering him with calls. In his final call to Thomas, starting after midnight and spanning over an hour, Pearl demanded multiple times for Thomas to give him reasons why Thomas would not flip to Iowa, and why he chose Illinois.

Pearl was taping the call. He directed the conversation multiple times to the reason why Thomas went Illinois, and walked him through multiple scenarios. Finally, he threw out that Thomas’ friend had said that Illinois had offered $30k and a new Ford Bronco. Thomas, desperate to end the call and go to bed, agreed that that was the case, and shortly after the call was ended.

Pearl and associated staff went to Davis the next day with an edited tape of the conversation, and then contacted the NCAA and gave them a copy of the edited tape.

Pearl has one of the worst track records of NCAA violations as a coach. He did not get hung for his misdeeds at Iowa, but Davis rapidly sent him on his way elsewhere after he learned the taped conversation was not contiguous, and the full background. The NCAA found the purported evidence provided was not "credible, persuasive and of a kind on which reasonably prudent persons rely in the conduct of serious affairs."

Pearl again pushed the envelope too far at Southern Indiana. He bounced to UWMilwaukee, where he again won big while garnering investigated complaints.

He bounced to Tennessee, where he got fired for cause, and almost got Tennessee the death penalty as well. He picked up a three year show cause penalty.

In Auburn, he managed to land in the one conference whose motto should be, “If you aren’t cheating, you aren’t trying.” Sure enough, his asst., Chuck Person was fired for cause, and two of his current players had to sit out last last year in the Adidas payola scandal the FBI is investigating.

Meanwhile, Illinois’ head coach during the Thomas fiasco came out of retirement to coach for free for two years at New Mexico State, his alma mater.

Feel free to judge the character of Henson and Pearl. Henson is in two university HOFs for his coaching efforts, while Pearl has shown his coaching chops are exceeded by the broad stripe down his back at every college he has coached. Great motivating coach whose ethics are practically nonexistent.

[BIG BILL FAN]

12 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

Auburn is going to be a very similar game to what we say inBonner’s jr and sr years against Xavier. Xavier had Tyrone Hill and Derek Strong as pfs, plus a 6’7” backup, and they also had a smaller guard who played in the NBA as well. We had Bonner battling in the paint, but little else for bigs. We would get our teeth kicked in if Luechtefeld and Duff were cold from 3, be close if they hit 30%, and barely win if they were hot from 3.

This game is the reason Bell has gotten development time in games. It will be his time to hold his own defensively. If he doesn’t come to play hard for 15 minutes, we are going to get shaken hard by a pit bull.

We cannot shoot our way to a win in an offensive slugfest - 60% from 3 will only keep us even with their prolific 2 pt game.

Like the Wiz said, keep the score low, limit their Off boards and our turnovers, and we can be close.

60% from 3 gets us a double digit win.

[willie]

1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

I remember it quite well, a good friend’s brother was the basketball student manager at Illinois that year.

Pearl was the Iowa recruiting asst. who was Thomas’ lead recruiter. After Thomas verballed to Illinois, Pearl kept badgering him with calls. In his final call to Thomas, starting after midnight and spanning over an hour, Pearl demanded multiple times for Thomas to give him reasons why Thomas would not flip to Iowa, and why he chose Illinois.

Pearl was taping the call. He directed the conversation multiple times to the reason why Thomas went Illinois, and walked him through multiple scenarios. Finally, he threw out that Thomas’ friend had said that Illinois had offered $30k and a new Ford Bronco. Thomas, desperate to end the call and go to bed, agreed that that was the case, and shortly after the call was ended.

Pearl and associated staff went to Davis the next day with an edited tape of the conversation, and then contacted the NCAA and gave them a copy of the edited tape.

Pearl has one of the worst track records of NCAA violations as a coach. He did not get hung for his misdeeds at Iowa, but Davis rapidly sent him on his way elsewhere after he learned the taped conversation was not contiguous, and the full background. The NCAA found the purported evidence provided was not "credible, persuasive and of a kind on which reasonably prudent persons rely in the conduct of serious affairs."

Pearl again pushed the envelope too far at Southern Indiana. He bounced to UWMilwaukee, where he again won big while garnering investigated complaints.

He bounced to Tennessee, where he got fired for cause, and almost got Tennessee the death penalty as well. He picked up a three year show cause penalty.

In Auburn, he managed to land in the one conference whose motto should be, “If you aren’t cheating, you aren’t trying.” Sure enough, his asst., Chuck Person was fired for cause, and two of his current players had to sit out last last year in the Adidas payola scandal the FBI is investigating.

Meanwhile, Illinois’ head coach during the Thomas fiasco came out of retirement to coach for free for two years at New Mexico State, his alma mater.

Feel free to judge the character of Henson and Pearl. Henson is in two university HOFs for his coaching efforts, while Pearl has shown his coaching chops are exceeded by the broad stripe down his back at every college he has coached. Great motivating coach whose ethics are practically nonexistent.

Sounds like another Illinois fan. I read several on-line  articles on this. Illinois and Henson were penalized for several violations. Illinois was accused of trying to buy other players at this time. Pearl was obviously not a saint but I think his reputation as a cheat is greatly exaggerated. I don’t believe he was ever accused of buying players which in my mind the ultimate sin. PS From an Illinois student manager you are going to get their spin. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by willie
Addition

[Sheltiedave]

Willie, the fog of 30 years from the event, and close to 15 years from last reading/writing about it smeared some of the memory details.

First, the taped call from Pearl to Thomas was documented by Illinois Bell to be 16 minutes long. The tape Pearl submitted as evidence was 4 minutes long. The master tape was never turned over to anyone, nor heard by anyone outside of Iowa’s basketball recruiting staff.

Notre Dame/Digger Phelps was part of the initial litany of player buying complaints, re an offer to LaPhonso Ellis of 80k and a new Bronco. Please note that both Ellis and Thomas denied the existence of any offer of pay to play, Thomas took and passed a polygraph, and the NCAA found zero substance or credible evidence to support Illinois trying to buy players. None whatsoever.

Please don’t believe me. Go to the source, the Nov. 7, 1990 Notice of Violations, published by David Brest, the NCAA assistant executive director of enforcement, and waste half an hour reading it with a good coffee.

Read it with the foreknowledge that virtually every violation found was detected and documented by an internal investigation, and voluntarily turned over to NCAA.

I am a huge Illinois fan, I have known all of the central Illinois high school players that ended up at Illinois, my younger brother served as a student manager, and we have been friends of the Henson family for 40 years, so guilty as charged. However, I always like to look at the available facts before tossing conjectures out.

Read the Illinois NOV, and read the Auburn actual pay to play situation, and your beliefs may change.

[Matty Light]

17 hours ago, willie said:

I actually like the fact that Pearl did this. Don’t exactly remember the circumstances but Illinois was offering Deon Thomas a Ford Bronco. Pearl taped a conversation and reported it to the NCAA. Something like this. Pearl took heat for being a snitch. His recruiting violations at Auburn were nothing compared to the Pitino’s of the world. 

That's how I remember it too.  Calling that dirty is like calling the Cincinnati Bengals dirty for reporting that the Patriots were taping their sidelines.

[Sheltiedave]

Matty, don’t depend on your memory. Read what the NCAA published.

Heck, read the Bruce Pearl altered phone transcript. Read Pearl’s script he gave to Davis. Pearl had the entire situation planned out.

Coaches don’t get blackballed for telling the truth; they do get blackballed for fabricating it. Thomas did not end up at Illinois due to $$ and a new Bronco, he went there because his grandmother trusted the coaches.

Read up on Mike Slive, Rich Hilliard, Renaldo Kyles, and some of the other smaller players from this episode. read about Pearl taking a summer “vacation” to Amsterdam, Holland, where Simeon b-ball coach Hambric noticed that Pearl was ghosting the team on every day of their trip. It is sordid what they did to Thomas and Henson, and the Illinois staff.

[Old guy]

Sheltiedave. the comings and goings of the NCAA dealing with investigations looks like what is going on in Congress. Altered transcripts, etc... Wow!

[DeSmetBilliken]

I didn’t know about it when it was happening because I was too young, but the articles I’ve read on the Deon Thomas/Illinois/Pearl situation are the same story as what SheltieDave has posted. My recollection is that the investigation that resulted from Pearl trying to be a whistleblower found no truth to Pearl’s allegations, but found some other violations which got Illinois sanctioned.

I’m not particularly an Illinois fan, but the story I always heard was that Pearl made signing Deon Thomas a huge priority and couldn’t handle it when he lost a recruiting battle, so he tried to set up a sting operation. 

[willie]

Just because Illinois wasn't found guilty of cash payments to Thomas doesn't mean it wasn't offered or didn't happen. All Capone went to jail for income tax evasion . Martha Steward went to jail for lying  not insider trading. Dave may be correct in Pearl's presentation of the recording but I also believe Illinois/Collins was in the business of buying players. 

[billiken_roy]

9 minutes ago, willie said:

Just because Illinois wasn't found guilty of cash payments to Thomas doesn't mean it wasn't offered or didn't happen. All Capone went to jail for income tax evasion . Martha Steward went to jail for lying  not insider trading. Dave may be correct in Pearl's presentation of the recording but I also believe Illinois/Collins was in the business of buying players. 

you sure are working hard to shift the focus from slimy pearl.   to each their own.   pearl's been caught numerous times, typically where there is smoke there is fire.   

[willie]

6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

you sure are working hard to shift the focus from slimy pearl.   to each their own.   pearl's been caught numerous times, typically where there is smoke there is fire.   

I think Pearl is a good coach and I like his enthusiasm . I think the coaching field is full of cheaters. For whatever reason Pearl gets vilified {not saying he didn't break rules] and others get a free pass. Frank Haith and Eddie Sutton would be examples of coaches who cheated but were treated with kid gloves. 

[billiken_roy]

4 minutes ago, willie said:

I think Pearl is a good coach and I like his enthusiasm . I think the coaching field is full of cheaters. For whatever reason Pearl gets vilified {not saying he didn't break rules] and others get a free pass. Frank Haith and Eddie Sutton would be examples of coaches who cheated but were treated with kid gloves. 

they got no glove treatment from me.  Haith likely ignored because he frankly wasnt a good coach even with cheating.  sutton indeed a total scum.  

[Old guy]

We are not really considering picking or favoring the less objectionable in a barrel of bad apples, are we?

[JettFlight5]

For those that know how I used to openly root for cheaters (win at any cost), I’ve kind of seen the error of my ways back then. I thought it was cool that JERRY Tarkanian did whatever the hell he wanted and fought the NCAA for years over it. Pearl was run out at Tennessee for the illicit barbecues at his house if I remember correctly. He’s not on Tark it Eddie Sutton’s level (even UK fans have problems with Emery Freight), but he’s not someone that “colors inside the lines”. 
 

I used to say losing on the court was the worst thing that could happen to a program...but sometimes there are limits that need to be obeyed.

[papal]

Getting back to the game, any team that shoots 60% from the three usually is victorious

[almaman]

1 hour ago, JettFlight5 said:

For those that know how I used to openly root for cheaters (win at any cost), I’ve kind of seen the error of my ways back then. I thought it was cool that JERRY Tarkanian did whatever the hell he wanted and fought the NCAA for years over it. Pearl was run out at Tennessee for the illicit barbecues at his house if I remember correctly. He’s not on Tark it Eddie Sutton’s level (even UK fans have problems with Emery Freight), but he’s not someone that “colors inside the lines”. 
 

I used to say losing on the court was the worst thing that could happen to a program...but sometimes there are limits that need to be obeyed.

just watching you mature on here has been a joy. r u now into participation badges ;)?