What is the Story on Hargrove

[almaman]

28 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

It’s a long season and we don’t need to play Goodwin 38 min or Jacobs 34 min with our deep bench. We need to get guys like TJ comfortable on the court in case heaven forbid someone gets injured against a team like Seton Hall next week 

TF said feel free to be the one that gets Goodwin to sit

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

All I’m saying is high minutes translates to higher stats no matter what. I think Tj’s ceiling is higher than Jacobs but that’s my opinion. Proud of Jacobs the other night but 34 min for him and 38 for Goodwin is unnecessary. They just tire out and tired players get injured more. We substituted much better the other game and we produced a lot better because of it. 

[Old guy]

Deleted, double posting

[Old guy]

20 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

uuuhhhh.  Yes, we do.  We need to win the game we should win to keep the team/season rolling along - and along the way, we need to give minutes to the new guys.  But to say Goodwin (by far our best player) should not have played so much is ludicrous.Did you not watch the game?   Had we not squandered our lead, I do believe that Goodwin would have played less and guys like Hargrove and Perkins played more.   If we want guys 8 thru 12 play, and play more; and if we must blame someone, then might I suggest we blame guys 3 thru 7 as opposed to our best player.

Let's choose who to place the blame upon. My choice is fouls, both French and Hankton got 5 fouls and left the game and Goodwin and Thatch had 4 fouls each at the end. Let's look at reality here. We are playing or trying to play thug ball, move fast, and pester the opposition constantly. We are likely to make a lot of fouls in the process. As our fouls mount in the first line players, we will have a ready made spot for some of the others to play. If these additional players carrying the burden could become Bell and Hargrove (after they are ready), we are going to be using our depth in a very good fashion. I really see a play consisting of all out close defense and opportunistic offense with many fouls and substitutions from a very deep bench as the season progresses. This is just my imagination talking, I may well be far from what Ford will do.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I hate the term, "thug ball."  "Bully ball" isn't much better, but it is better.

[billikenfan05]

2 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

All I’m saying is high minutes translates to higher stats no matter what. I think Tj’s ceiling is higher than Jacobs but that’s my opinion. Proud of Jacobs the other night but 34 min for him and 38 for Goodwin is unnecessary. They just tire out and tired players get injured more. We substituted much better the other game and we produced a lot better because of it. 

Was it unnecessary? We won by 10 and it was a 1 point game in the second. We played 7 guys all season and had no injury issues with our high minute guys. 

[Sheltiedave]

Quality, what term do you want us to substitute? I have no problem changing it, it just has been a joy after five decades to have us as the donor rather than the recipient.

Over the years, Louisville, Memphis State, Cincinnati, Xavier, Dayton, GW, St. Joes, Rhode Island, VCU, and others beat us to death physically.

Here is to the hope Ford can soon sign the coveted PF/C we need with the final schollie.

[moytoy12]

5 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

 

Right now I think he is concerned with the thug school team the most. Many of us were hoping with The missing points that Bess and Isabell provided, a rotation spearheaded by Perkins and Jimerson would hit the points and provide a reasonable level of thug. Neither is rapidly developing. Perkins never played belly ball defense in juco, and Ditto for Jimerson in prep.

 

Who thought either of these two was going to play that type of ball? How are they not rapidly developing? Can we even make that proclamation after 2 games? 

You're picking some weird hills to die on lately. 

 

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

Also whoever said Travis Ford is old school is making crap up. 
Majerus was old school. If you would compare Ford and RM would be in two different sides of an old vs new school diagram. 
 

obvIously both great just different styles. 
 

 

[billikenfan05]

4 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

Also whoever said Travis Ford is old school is making crap up. 
Majerus was old school. If you would compare Ford and RM would be in two different sides of an old vs new school diagram. 
 

obvIously both great just different styles. 
 

 

You tell us who said it. Because if you can’t I’m just going to assume you made it up. 

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

6 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

Ford has a plan and he is sticking to it. Hargrove will get his time on the floor, and it will come in a manner where he is best situated to succeed. All the new players that get the basics down will get a 5-10 minute Indoc session, if they do well, they can earn a 20 minute session. If they go more than 20 minutes, the barn is on fire and they can hit major starter minutes.

Ford is old school and this is an old school pattern for a major developmental year, with the planks he is trying to develop.

Right now I think he is concerned with the thug school team the most. Many of us were hoping with The missing points that Bess and Isabell provided, a rotation spearheaded by Perkins and Jimerson would hit the points and provide a reasonable level of thug. Neither is rapidly developing. Perkins never played belly ball defense in juco, and Ditto for Jimerson in prep.

Collins has been quite a pleasant surprise defensively, playing stout D without fouling, and rebounding like a small forward.

He who shan’t be named is still learning about lane close outs, switches, and defensive positioning, so we have two of the three bigs slots deficient in thuggery. This is why we are getting exposed on D, both in the paint and deep.

 

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

34 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

You tell us who said it. Because if you can’t I’m just going to assume you made it up. 

Can’t assume without being an A$$

[Old guy]

Moytoy this thing about "picking some weird hills to die on" is something I never heard before.  Care to  expand a bit on the meaning of the phrase? This is a serious question, I am interested.

[billikenfan05]

3 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

Can’t assume without being an A$$

That’s not how that phrase goes. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

7 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Moytoy this thing about "picking some weird hills to die on" is something I never heard before.  Care to  expand a bit on the meaning of the phrase? This is a serious question, I am interested.

"Hill to die on":

Quote

An allusion to the military practice of capturing/holding a hill (high ground), no matter the cost or (lack of) benefit, as in the Battle of Hamburger Hill or Last Stand Hill.  Usually used in the negative, as in "it's not a hill I'm willing to die on."

 

[Sheltiedave]

It is also used in the positive, however. Leonadis and his Spartans killed close to 20,000 Persians before succumbing at the Battle of Thermopylae, the Maine regiment and fractions of others held Little Round Top against overwhelming Confederate numbers at Gettysburg, and one US nuclear sub kept three Russian subs and cruisers from delivering nuclear missiles to Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crises.

In like fashion, Ford has his strategic hills he keys on. The paramount hills he learned from his dad through high school, and then Norm Stewart at Mizzou and Calipari at Kentucky were defense, rebounding, good shots and take care of the ball. The d, rebounding, and turnovers emphasis are all as old school as you can get.

The cycling through of new players, and changing of sets of players between minor, medium, and heavy use, is also old school in nature. Of course it is also driven by foul situations and hot hands, and then later in conference play by matchups and who the coach settles on.

Goodwin was quoted in the paper that they had a practice/practices that was low effort. Ford stated in the postgame that things were going to change on defense, re the lack of help defense on dribble drives, and closing out to 3 pt line, especially poor efforts on D in both second halfs.

I would wager one of the changes is TJ seeing floor time in the next game or two, along the line of 5 minutes in the first half, and bouncing up to 10 in the second half if he plays solid. He will be a foul machine early on in his cycle of three games, until the refs calibrate him on what is allowed.

[Box and Won]

15 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I hate the term, "thug ball."  "Bully ball" isn't much better, but it is better.

I would never use the term "thug ball," but to me, "bully ball" actually has a positive connotation.     

[HoosierPal]

 

[JohnnyJumpUp]

34 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

 

 

[Slu let the dogs out?]

Why did he only play 7 minutes? Is there something wrong? I really hope he doesn't transfer.

[disgruntledbilliken]

The commentators on FSMW said that Hargrove had 5 coaches in 4 years at ESL and so that he is still learning to play in a more consistent system. I believe they ware citing Ford when they said this. 

[White Pelican]

8 minutes ago, disgruntledbilliken said:

The commentators on FSMW said that Hargrove had 5 coaches in 4 years at ESL and so that he is still learning to play in a more consistent system. I believe they ware citing Ford when they said this. 

There's a new take.

[Old guy]

The amount of time Hargrove played in the last game is not an issue, the good fact is that he played and he performed at a reasonable level. He will be used more frequently from now on, same for Bell.

[billiken_roy]

4 minutes ago, Old guy said:

The amount of time Hargrove played in the last game is not an issue, the good fact is that he played and he performed at a reasonable level. He will be used more frequently from now on, same for Bell.

i think for th above to be true, i.e. more frequent time, we would have needed to see they outperformed the players perceived to be above them.   i dont think they necessarily did that.   

i also would like to see hargrove and perkins be more intense when they dont have the ball.   i.e. defense, moving on offense, etc.   didnt see that last night.   when they had the ball good stuff happened.  when they didnt they were somewhat wanderers

bell has the advantage of no competition.   unless we want to play small all the time with only french in the lane, bell has to play.   his 10-15 minutes a game preserves french's fouls somewhat.  

[Sheltiedave]

Roy, Perkins aggressively switched on screens, and he came up within half a foot on his man at the charity stripe, which is a marked level of effort higher than the first two games. If you try too hard, you commit a silly foul on a man without the ball.

Hargrove got game time and popped on effort, and showed he understood the out of bounds X cut play from the key. All he can do is continue to pick up and execute plays in game, and max his effort in practice. The time will follow the learning and effort curves, sometimes in linear fashion, sometimes driven by foul trouble, sometimes by catching fire.

Ford has done an outstanding job to date with an impossible task of cat herding. To get everyone going the same direction, salting playing time across the board, and having almost everyone popping in some aspect in at least one game this early on is superlative coaching.

The depth and competition in practice is really showing out in game time. We still are going to get kicked in some games, and turn wins into losses with our abysmal FT shooting, but the development can be seen by all.