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GDT: Valpo


gobillsgo

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If BBF wants to quote and have a conversation, let’s see what he brings to the table besides ...it’s a lie.

If he hasn’t seen the broadcast, and didn’t watch the repeat today, then he is just popping off.

i don’t worry either way, but I like to know the level of honesty in a poster sometimes. There always is room for disagreement, if we are operating on a fair plane of fact.

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2 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

If BBF wants to quote and have a conversation, let’s see what he brings to the table besides ...it’s a lie.

If he hasn’t seen the broadcast, and didn’t watch the repeat today, then he is just popping off.

i don’t worry either way, but I like to know the level of honesty in a poster sometimes. There always is room for disagreement, if we are operating on a fair plane of fact.

As I alluded to in another thread, there's a prevailing attitude that if someone takes an unpopular stance or seems to be overly critical, then he must be exposed as a troll or enemy of the program.  And once their mind is made up....

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30 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

OK, have you now seen the FSM telecast, have you seen the specific free throw lineup at 18:38 left in the second half, and if you can say yes to the first two questions, please describe Bell’s respiratory status.

My SLU degreed RT friend said “Wow, he is big, and he is a mouth breathing locomotive. Time for a seat.”

I would like to hear your assessment.

I already gave you my assessment, and did you also think he looked like a heavy footed troll as you earlier described him. All people are asking is for you to have some decency... it’s amazing how you can dish it out but you sure cant take it...

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Yes.  This a good reminder that these a young kids - amateurs- who are given a great scholarship and opportunity but they are not professionals and don’t deserve the criticism of a professional.  
With that said, even the best basketball players have been out of top shape at times in their careers.  And if this is the worst, then so be it. Sorry but I just see what is so bad with what was posted. Again, so much worse has been said.  
I, for one, would rather have people say I am out of breath or breathing like a locomotive than I suck, I cannot shoot, they wasted a scholarship on me...

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10 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes.  This a good reminder that these a young kids - amateurs- who are given a great scholarship and opportunity but they are not professionals and don’t deserve the criticism of a professional.  
With that said, even the best basketball players have been out of top shape at times in their careers.  And if this is the worst, then so be it. Sorry but I just see what is so bad with what was posted. Again, so much worse has been said.  
I, for one, would rather have people say I am out of breath or breathing like a locomotive than I suck, I cannot shoot, they wasted a scholarship on me...

When you say someone can’t play for a minute and a half, you are saying they suck. It’s odd that you have no problem with sheltie giving his opinion, but are perplexed by someone disagreeing with him, giving theirs??? I would encourage all of our JB detractors to tell Jimmy and his family that he is nothing but an out of shape, heavy footed troll the next opportunity they get. I’m sure they will take it in the kind spirited intent that you have for him..

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

@Sheltiedave

Take insults thrown your way from the point of view of who is insulting you. Henry B should be ignored and left alone. Pay no attention to him.

@Old guy

I did a little research.  I haven't posted on this board since March 25 yet you insult me and tell others to ignore me? My participation on this board is limited to very occasional reactions to posts that catch my attention. The main reason I stopped was because I found it increasingly difficult to express a point of view without being attacked.  I decided it wasn't worth it.  You just confirmed I made the right decision.

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22 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

When you say someone can’t play for a minute and a half, you are saying they suck.

Not at all.  Conditioning of all freshmen is always an issue.  The game is longer, the speed is faster, the guys are bigger and stronger - and defense is real.  High school jogging and pacing yourself are non existent. Hargrove is making adjustments.  Same w Perkins (2 year JUCO) who played only 3 minutes. And real bigs always have a bigger issue.  
Now, again, could the same points have been made in a nicer manner?  Of course, but again, I have sure read alot worse on this Board. 

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BRoy, this is an outstanding example how Goodwin can be better utilized as the point forward, rather than point guard. He has the size, strength, handle, and vision that makes him a formidable flash man in the key.

You need four players in sync to make this play work well- the point guard, the flash man at the second level, the high slip screener, and the wheel cutter.

Collins has the innate timing to know just when to slide right, and then slip the needle pass left to Goodwin, and Goodwin knows the timing on when Jacobs should pop, and he delivered the second needle pass just so. If you listen, you can hear Ford yell “Right now!” This is a scripted play, done perfectly.

This is how Goodwin can get more assists than last year, while playing off the ball, in the half court phase. Collins is light years ahead of most all freshman pgs at creating unbalanced help defense. The rest of the team just needs to watch film, and the flasher needs to learn how to present and receive Collins pass, knowing either the back door baseline cut, the slip cut, or the 3 pt spot up is always going to be open.

Collins always is going to have more turnovers at pg than Goodwin will, but that is a function of him making higher risk plays, and making Kurt Warner type passes to players that didn’t even realize a pass is coming their way. His teammates are realizing they have to have their eyes open wide and their hands ready so they don’t get doinked and embarrassed.

His skill and knowledge is such that he will evolve to lessen his turnovers while still pushing the envelope. In pushing the envelope hard, excellent point guards make everyone better.

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1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

BRoy, this is an outstanding example how Goodwin can be better utilized as the point forward, rather than point guard. He has the size, strength, handle, and vision that makes him a formidable flash man in the key.

You need four players in sync to make this play work well- the point guard, the flash man at the second level, the high slip screener, and the wheel cutter.

Collins has the innate timing to know just when to slide right, and then slip the needle pass left to Goodwin, and Goodwin knows the timing on when Jacobs should pop, and he delivered the second needle pass just so. If you listen, you can hear Ford yell “Right now!” This is a scripted play, done perfectly.

This is how Goodwin can get more assists than last year, while playing off the ball, in the half court phase. Collins is light years ahead of most all freshman pgs at creating unbalanced help defense. The rest of the team just needs to watch film, and the flasher needs to learn how to present and receive Collins pass, knowing either the back door baseline cut, the slip cut, or the 3 pt spot up is always going to be open.

Collins always is going to have more turnovers at pg than Goodwin will, but that is a function of him making higher risk plays, and making Kurt Warner type passes to players that didn’t even realize a pass is coming their way. His teammates are realizing they have to have their eyes open wide and their hands ready so they don’t get doinked and embarrassed.

His skill and knowledge is such that he will evolve to lessen his turnovers while still pushing the envelope. In pushing the envelope hard, excellent point guards make everyone better.

only when collins drives the lane like and gets to deep he cant do anything.   goodwin has the size and power to be able to still make something happen.   until collins learns this, he is our second choice as the point guard.   sure when they are both in the game, collins has to play point guard, simply because with his diminitive size he cant play anywhere else.  and no doubt he is one of our 6 or 7 best players so he is going to play.   but if we put our best five on the floor, i'll take goodwin as our point guard right now.   collins is going to play, and in the future when he finally learns his position at the college level, he will be our point guard.  but currently you are wrong.  

 

as to your statement about him being the teams kurt warner, not sure how this is such want of the team.   sounds like you want the team to have turnovers just for the sake of a chance of a highlight play?    i'd prefer to just make the play.   

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No Roy, I’ll accept the turnovers because he is a basketball scholar. He keeps tabs of what doesn’t work, and he learns that he has to shoot, or pass, a step or two earlier when help arrives. All guards and forwards have to learn this drive play, because they have to get into the body of the defender playing on them to not get stuffed.

If Collins gets into the defender’s body, and help slides over, and he misses a somewhat wild shot, French or Goodwin are there to clean up often.

Look at the playing time. In the first two games, Collins has played 20 and 30 minutes, for an average of 25 mpg. Ford has already decided Collins is his point guard. Against Valpo, with a blazing fast senior PG on him most of the game, he produced 8 points, 5 assists, 4 turnovers, 6 rebounds, 2 steal, and 1 foul. He played a dominant point guard tough, and kept Goodwin off a PG that would have gotten Goodwin fouled out. This would have been a commendable game from Goodwin last year, but you are grousing about the four turnovers.

Your loyalty to Goodwin is commendable, but in greatly reduced ball handling time against Valpo, he still had one more turnover than Collins. This is a business case study, and I n order for our team to succeed, Goodwin generates his highest marginal utilization within 20 feet of the basket, and Collins generates his highest mu between 30-10 feet of the basket.

Goodwin racked up 22 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 5 turnovers, 3 steals, and 4 fouls. He had to play a cover forward on D, and the small/flash forward on O due to foul trouble, and he maxed out his production in no small part because he was liberated from ball handling duties and having to initiate  plays from 25 feet out.

These two factors, two games in, make Collins the point guard and Goodwin the flash forward, assuming Bess’s role of last year. Now Goodwin has the rock where he can drive, pass, or shoot,without burning up a lot of energy outside his best area of utilization.

I’m sure Ford was projecting Perkins to be the flash forward, but actual play has shown Goodwin will excel in this role. 

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