GDT - Crush Wesleyan

[RUBillsFan]

38 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

3star --- I'm not pushing the FT shooting at all, just the floor shooting.  SLU -- where jump shots come to die.  That's the why as in why does that seem to be the case?  Or why do we only have one designated shooter?  Multiple shooters have always exists on VCU for all my recent memory.  Evans.  Jenkins.  Simms.  Crowfield.  Vann.  Lewis.  Doughty.  Brooks.  Burgess.  Johnson.  Weber. Graham.  And the list goes on.  And many of these guys were options on the same team.  Last year, all we really had was Wiley (as the designated bomber).  In our best heyday, our shooters were maybe three or fou r.. Mitchell, Ellis, Loe and McCall.  Before that, the real heights were Claggett, Hmark, Waldman and Dobbs.  Then add Turner.  Since the graduation of the RickMa class, we are lucky to have one per roster over these past years and there were many more where we had only one (Deiner). 

At least that's my perception.

You're just naming good players at VCU and not necessarily shooters.  IMO VCU players FG%s are going to be skewed higher because of easy transition layups off turnovers.  Here are the players you mentioned career 3 pt % at VCU:

Evans - 27% (better before transfer from Rice)

Jenkins - 39%

Simms - 30%

Crowfield - 36%

Vann - 28% (better before transfer from Maine)

Lewis - 37%

Doughty - 28% (better after transfer to Auburn)

Brooks - 31%

Burgess - 29%

Johnson - 37%

Weber - 27%

Graham - 35%

I highlighted the ones who you listed that are below 30% 3pt shooters and I would not consider good shooters.  I don't think you can find stats for mid-range jumpers separate, but I think this paints a picture that is not quite as rosy in terms of VCU having shooters as you remember.  If anything this proves that SLU isn't the only place jump shots go to die (see VCU players who were better before / after VCU) and that you don't necessarily need multiple outside shooting options to win.

[NH]

1 hour ago, RUBillsFan said:

You're just naming good players at VCU and not necessarily shooters.  IMO VCU players FG%s are going to be skewed higher because of easy transition layups off turnovers.  Here are the players you mentioned career 3 pt % at VCU:

Evans - 27% (better before transfer from Rice)

Jenkins - 39%

Simms - 30%

Crowfield - 36%

Vann - 28% (better before transfer from Maine)

Lewis - 37%

Doughty - 28% (better after transfer to Auburn)

Brooks - 31%

Burgess - 29%

Johnson - 37%

Weber - 27%

Graham - 35%

I highlighted the ones who you listed that are below 30% 3pt shooters and I would not consider good shooters.  I don't think you can find stats for mid-range jumpers separate, but I think this paints a picture that is not quite as rosy in terms of VCU having shooters as you remember.  If anything this proves that SLU isn't the only place jump shots go to die (see VCU players who were better before / after VCU) and that you don't necessarily need multiple outside shooting options to win.

He also didn’t list Troy Daniels, probably VCU’s best 3-point shooter of all time. 

[Clock_Tower]

Taj. Why do you say we have only 1 shooter?
Jimerson , Perkins and Weaver  = 3

Thatch was a prolific scorer in high school but not a shooter  Jacobs and Goodwin both talented but bot shooters  Hargrove to be a good scorer but not necessarily a shooter.  Hankton may be able to make some 3’s but not a shooter  

 

[HoosierPal]

26 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Taj. Why do you say we have only 1 shooter?
Jimerson , Perkins and Weaver  = 3

Thatch was a prolific scorer in high school but not a shooter  Jacobs and Goodwin both talented but bot shooters  Hargrove to be a good scorer but not necessarily a shooter.  Hankton may be able to make some 3’s but not a shooter  

 

Taj, by nature, is a negative poster. 

Thatch hit 41% from the Arc his last season in HS.  It didn't translate last year, but I'm not writing him off.

Weaver is a career 35.7% three point shooter.  One set of stats I have shows Perkins at 42.6% from the three last season. Jimerson could easily make it 4.

[Billikens4life]

3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Taj. Why do you say we have only 1 shooter?
Jimerson , Perkins and Weaver  = 3

Thatch was a prolific scorer in high school but not a shooter  Jacobs and Goodwin both talented but bot shooters  Hargrove to be a good scorer but not necessarily a shooter.  Hankton may be able to make some 3’s but not a shooter  

 

I think Hankton has a chance to step up from the outside.  He has a smooth stroke, and he should get plenty of opportunity

[Cincybill]

1 hour ago, Billikens4life said:

I think Hankton has a chance to step up from the outside.  He has a smooth stroke, and he should get plenty of opportunity

Hankton might be the second best shooter on the team.

[Taj79]

I'll reserve judgement on Perkins, Jimmerson and Weaver until their Billiken careers are over. Maybe they'll bust the trend of jump shots dying at SLU.   I hope so.

My point on VCU wasn't to look at career 3FG% of the players, my point was that there were options available on those teams,not just one guy.  I don't for as minute believe Simms or Crowfield or Burgess were all that individually good, but they did provide various options on the same team that has not been seen on a Billiken team since Ellis' senior year.  And i don't think Cody went out with a super percentage bang.

And i disagree with the Whoz ..... it's not negative as much as it is critical.  I've shot the Blue kool aid via IVs for years, now I sip it in measured doses instead.  How quickly we forget Jake Barnett.  

I have really come to adopt the state motto of Missouri more than anything else when it comes to Billiken basketball. Perkins got 8 minutes and one line drive three.  Weaver was1 for 1.  Jimmerson gives me hope in that despite an Ofor from three, he found other ways to score.  And if you advocate a way to deduct 2FG% I'd also advocate deducting layup percentages as well.  That was my argument on Jett's FG% as well.  With stuff like NextGen stats, I suspect such a tally is not far off in the making.

[almaman]

I'll reserve judgement on Perkins, Jimmerson and Weaver until their Billiken careers are over. Maybe they'll bust the trend of jump shots dying at SLU.   I hope so

get back to us on this 11/01/23. 

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

10 hours ago, Taj79 said:

3star --- I'm not pushing the FT shooting at all, just the floor shooting.  SLU -- where jump shots come to die.  That's the why as in why does that seem to be the case?  Or why do we only have one designated shooter?  Multiple shooters have always exists on VCU for all my recent memory.  Evans.  Jenkins.  Simms.  Crowfield.  Vann.  Lewis.  Doughty.  Brooks.  Burgess.  Johnson.  Weber. Graham.  And the list goes on.  And many of these guys were options on the same team.  Last year, all we really had was Wiley (as the designated bomber).  In our best heyday, our shooters were maybe three or fou r.. Mitchell, Ellis, Loe and McCall.  Before that, the real heights were Claggett, Hmark, Waldman and Dobbs.  Then add Turner.  Since the graduation of the RickMa class, we are lucky to have one per roster over these past years and there were many more where we had only one (Deiner). 

At least that's my perception.

Goodwin. Perkins. Weaver. Gibson. Jacobs. Hankton. All shooters. 

Can't tell me otherwise. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

38 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Goodwin. Perkins. Weaver. Gibson. Jacobs. Hankton. All shooters. 

Can't tell me otherwise. 

And Thatch.

[Clock_Tower]

No. Shooter does not equal guard or anyone who wants to take an outside shot. 

[thetorch]

1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

No. Shooter does not equal guard or anyone who wants to take an outside shot. 

Thatch will have at the minimum the 3rd highest 3 point % on the team.

[Taj79]

Rise: thanks for letting me know how close-minded you are.  And for you, that's okay, not an issue for me.  Again, only time will tell but you obviously don't subscribe to my "Jordan Goodwin needs tons of work" assessment if you believe he is one of your shooters right now.   I would be curious as to how you judge your assessments to date because if its preseason hype or hearsay, being jaded will come.  And I sure hope he gets better.  Again, there are stats for 3FG% and 2FG%.  JG shot 40% from the floor last year and 26%from three.  I think an even truer would be backing out his layups and reexamining a FG% from there.  But that's just me.  Remember:  even billiken roy can make a layup (so he says).  

torch:  no argument with Thatch being third .... or first or second or whatever even.  Thatch was only .6% better than Goodwin was last year.  Jacoibs shots 16%; Hankton beat all three at 28%.  Granted the sample size is truly small.  But I'll wait and see ----- Thatch could shoot 5% and maybe fulfill torch's prophesy---- you never know. And I know the statement is ludicrous.  It's the point I'm focused on.

The best thing I can say about one exhibition is Jimmerson jacked it and does not appear afraid to continue to do so.  Can't wait fro Tuesday night.

Love the debate points and I hope to be proven wrong.

[slu72]

For a Marylander, you gotta hand to Taj Mahal 79. His 4 year stint at SLU turned him into a true full blooded Missourian: a real Show Me kind of guy. 

[bauman]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Rise: thanks for letting me know how close-minded you are.  And for you, that's okay, not an issue for me.  Again, only time will tell but you obviously don't subscribe to my "Jordan Goodwin needs tons of work" assessment if you believe he is one of your shooters right now.   I would be curious as to how you judge your assessments to date because if its preseason hype or hearsay, being jaded will come.  And I sure hope he gets better.  Again, there are stats for 3FG% and 2FG%.  JG shot 40% from the floor last year and 26%from three.  I think an even truer would be backing out his layups and reexamining a FG% from there.  But that's just me.  Remember:  even billiken roy can make a layup (so he says).  

torch:  no argument with Thatch being third .... or first or second or whatever even.  Thatch was only .6% better than Goodwin was last year.  Jacoibs shots 16%; Hankton beat all three at 28%.  Granted the sample size is truly small.  But I'll wait and see ----- Thatch could shoot 5% and maybe fulfill torch's prophesy---- you never know. And I know the statement is ludicrous.  It's the point I'm focused on.

The best thing I can say about one exhibition is Jimmerson jacked it and does not appear afraid to continue to do so.  Can't wait fro Tuesday night.

Love the debate points and I hope to be proven wrong.

Taj, I would think at this point of the season and with this being discussed many, many times, that you and almaman would know how to spell our new player's name!  It's JIMERSON---not Jimmerson - note one "M" not 2 !!!

[bauman]

....and torch, I guess you can't spell either.

[thetorch]

This is a basketball forum not a spelling bee.  The spellcheck police bit is getting old.  Sending DMs to board members chastising their spelling is obsessive behavior.  You must realize Jimmerson is being misspelled just to egg you on.  Better to just let it go.

[Taj79]

Sorry —— Jierson.  Happy?

[Quality Is Job 1]

2 hours ago, slu72 said:

For a Marylander, you gotta hand to Taj Mahal 79. His 4 year stint at SLU turned him into a true full blooded Missourian: a real Show Me kind of guy. 

I thought he was a Pennsylvanian.

[Billikens4life]

14 hours ago, Taj79 said:

I'll reserve judgement on Perkins, Jimmerson and Weaver until their Billiken careers are over. Maybe they'll bust the trend of jump shots dying at SLU.   I hope so.

 

Do jump shots really die at SLU if the Bills just play a different style of basketball?  I just don't agree with that logic.

[slu72]

33 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I thought he was a Pennsylvanian.

Or a Martian? 

[HoosierPal]

14 hours ago, Taj79 said:

And i disagree with the Whoz ..... it's not negative as much as it is critical.  I've shot the Blue kool aid via IVs for years, now I sip it in measured doses instead.

 

crit·i·cal

/ˈkridək(ə)l/

Learn to pronounce

adjective

adjective: critical

1. 1.

   expressing adverse or disapproving comments or judgments.

   "he was critical of many U.S. welfare programs"

    

    

    

   Please learn how to spell.

[Billiken Rich]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Sorry —— Jierson.  Happy?

Is it just me or does it seem that Jimerson  should be pronounced with a hard I with just one m in it?  Looks like it should be pronounced  J-eye-merson to me.  I think the Billiken podcast boys should get Gibson's parents on the line and get to the bottom of this

[Cincybill]

Lol they are saying his name correctly...

[Old guy]

I know the exhibition game against KW means little to nothing in the big scale of things, this is granted. However, I do want to emphasize a most important statistic from that game that I think may mean more and more to SLU as the season progresses. If we really crushed KW in any given area, it was in rebounds. We had 50, they had 21. To me such a discrepancy in the number of rebounds between the two teams means that SLU can shoot a lot and make a relatively small % of the shots attempted, and still win. It matters less to shoot and miss if we can recover the ball and shoot again. I have been thinking about Shaka's brand of havoc as we experienced. I think the whole basis of Shaka's strategy was to overpower the opponents thoroughly and to make as many shots as possible, on the basic premise that a high volume of shots makes up for the lack of shot accuracy. You should all know that this is only a mental exercise for me. I really do not know enough about basketball technique to determine if what I just said is nothing but a bunch of junk. However, this is what I have in my mind. I hope to see more of the same next Tuesday against Florida Gulf Coast.