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Practice Observations: Warm-up for open practice TODAY!


DoctorB

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2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Guess we will all have to just wait and see about the possible 40 minutes of hell pace of the game.   If so, it does solve alot of issues:   gives alot of minutes to alot more players and thereby keep more happy; it gives much needed touches and minutes to all who apparently have had prior development issues (from bad coaching, to played different positions, to not played enough b/c of weight issues, injury issues...; it gives more minutes at the higher level D1 game to most all who need the same; we will certainly make mistakes but each mistake/turnover/missed shot will be lessened if we have significantly more possession and take more shots than in prior years; it allows for needed evaluations and chemistry issues which are best resolved with game situations rather than just with practices, and it keeps down criticism from from us MBM's as we will all be talking about things other than the same complaints from last year, and the year before...

playing fast and pressing won't allow players with poor coaching to get more minutes. In fact, it might make it less. Pressing full court successfully takes great defensive technique and positioning. 

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20 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Ford may be using starter talk to motivate Bell, I would do the same. Btw, I called More than one Bills center a heavy footed troll, and they laughed. They will be the first to not worry about ground clearance when they jump. Once you are over 250 lbs, rebounds are just as much about sealing, clearing out, and positioning...ask Dobbs about that.

Not saying it's not being used for motivation, but Bell did start the scrimmage and has spent a bunch of time working with the first team. He looks to be the starting center.  He's the only option right now.

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

i dont remember ian v being a candidate for the slu decathlon team.  in fact his freshman year he was probably physically weaker and more out of shape than bell will be first game.

Yeah, Ian was physically weak early in his career and not in very good shape. He got into much better condition and added muscle by the time he was a junior and senior, but that certainly was an issue for him early in his career. Ian was the traditional euro big who likely grew up stretching the floor and playing on the perimeter, so he had a significant adjustment to the college game back then where he was expected to battle in the paint possession after possession and they really let guys pound on bigs. His game certainly fits the move towards a more skill based game and positionless basketball.

Bell certainly appears physically ready to compete early in his career, I guess we will find out just how many minutes he is conditioned for from day #1, but he is physically ahead of where Ian was. But again, Ian was a much different player.

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  One point I haven't seen mentioned is the impact an uptempo offense combined with a pressing defense will have on opponents.  Preseason, most "experts" see us as middle of the road in the conference, at best.  I think that is primarily based on the fact that we have only 2 (in their minds) above average A-10 players and an undistinguished group of newcomers.  That's seen as separating us from the teams who are stocked with 3-5 players who have proven to be very good-excellent in previous years of A-10 play.

What I don't know is how much depth those teams have, but I did see at least 10 A-10 level players on the court at Saturday's practice.  Uptempo "O" and pressing "D" will wear out many players, forcing their teams to utilize their benches more than in a normal game.  If we are in as good of shape as it looks like Ford is driving the team to, yes SD even Bell, then that will produce many runs where the Bills outscore team "X."  The games will either be our 10 against their 10 or our 10 against their gassed 6-8.  This will be interesting to watch in our early OOC games. 

Looking forward to the FGCU opener in a little over a week.  Hoping for early-season positive answers to some/most of the following questions:  Have JG and HF made significant improvement at the FT line?  Is JB capable of playing 10-15 minutes a game?  What are we really going to get from Perkins and Weaver?  Has FT Jr. improved his shooting as much as it appeared at the open practice?  How much can TH Jr. contribute based on his pure athletic ability?  Will we see even a mini-Yurimania this year?  Who will wind up as players 11 & 12 in a 10 man rotation?  How much have KCH and DJ really improved? and the most important ? in my mind;   Is GJ going to provide the 3 pt shooting many of us are expecting?  I am hoping we can write his name in post-game threads as Jimmmerson or Jimmmmerson! 

Hopefully we have 6000+ at the FGCU game and build from there to an average of 8500-9000 in A-10 games, including 10,000 at SVU and VCU games.  As Coach Ford said to the crowd last Saturday, we need to pack this place!  Get there SLU students-you can make a difference!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ford is trying to get the base conditioning for his rotation players to a point where he can throw a press up for two or three five minute stretches a game. Goodwin, French, and Thatch have played it and know it well, Jacobs and Hankton know it somewhat, the rest of the rotation is in their amazement phase.

Keep an eye on Bell’s rotation cycle. If he does a 2/3 minute in...8 minute down, he still has little wind. If he does a 3-5 minute in, 8 minute down, he is rounding into game shape well. With French’s history of foul trouble, Ford will be forced to play Bell early and often to get him acclimated. He cannot be lost on the floor like Jacobs was last season.

Ford will try a lot of pressing early, so the team can learn the wrinkles ojt. With all the seniors last year, a lot of what was rolling the ball on the floor last year will be pain inducing learning curve this year.

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All that I can say factually and with reason about Bell is the following:

1. During the practice last Saturday he went with the rest of them in that two minute period where they ran to a basket (while under defense from another guy), shot the hoop, recovered and went back the court to do the same thing. Back and forth with the coach timing them. I did not see Bell lag doing this, I was in the third row.

2. Ford has made multiple statements about how much better than expected Bell has turned out to be. I really do not know how low his expectations were, but there you have it.

I wish the best to Bell, I think he is working hard and will catch on.

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Not that I know anything, but he does plan on playing full court for 40 minutes. Could change, but that’s the plan. Heard SLU pressed 40 minutes against Loyola and wore them out. 
 

I’m guessing we’ll drop back after pressing and play a zone a fair amount. It will help protect Has.  We don’t have to always press full court. He obviously likes the half court trap. 
 

A question, do I remember Correctly that the rule changed regarding the 10 second count not restarting when the ball goes out or a timeout is called? If so, more teams will press. 

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5 hours ago, slufanskip said:

playing fast and pressing won't allow players with poor coaching to get more minutes. In fact, it might make it less. Pressing full court successfully takes great defensive technique and positioning. 

Yes.   And the sky is blue too.   What's your point?

If guys don't do what Coach Ford wants them to do -- they won't play.   Simple.   But to play a fast tempo and press, guys must be in shape and we must have depth.   And if we have depth, and use our depth, then more guys play.   So once again, playing fast will allow more guys to get playing time.  

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7 hours ago, slufanskip said:

it gives much needed touches and minutes to all who apparently have had prior development issues (from bad coaching, to played different positions, to not played enough b/c of weight issues, injury issues...

I was responding to your statement basically saying pressing gives more minutes to players with development issues such as poor coaching. My point was (regardless of the color of the sky) that your statement is wrong. Pressing will give less minutes to those who have been poorly coached unless they are exceptionally quick learners. Your post and possibly I misunderstood your intent, read to me like you were just saying it doesn't matter if they've been poorly coached we can still use them to press.  Then you say if guys don't do what Coach Ford wants them to do they won't play. Simple. As if it's just a matter of Coach telling them and they do it.  Playing fast will get more guys playing time probably, but probably not those at least early that have been poorly coached. You get out of place or rotate too slow or over commit during a press and you give up easy points on the other end. 

Why so confrontational lately? Did I insult you by disagreeing? 

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35 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I was responding to your statement basically saying pressing gives more minutes to players with development issues such as poor coaching. My point was (regardless of the color of the sky) that your statement is wrong. Pressing will give less minutes to those who have been poorly coached unless they are exceptionally quick learners. Your post and possibly I misunderstood your intent, read to me like you were just saying it doesn't matter if they've been poorly coached we can still use them to press.  Then you say if guys don't do what Coach Ford wants them to do they won't play. Simple. As if it's just a matter of Coach telling them and they do it.  Playing fast will get more guys playing time probably, but probably not those at least early that have been poorly coached. You get out of place or rotate too slow or over commit during a press and you give up easy points on the other end. 

Why so confrontational lately? Did I insult you by disagreeing? 

You guys can keep arguing but this isn't true lol. Especially for ultra athletic players. Carry on!!

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8 hours ago, slu72 fan said:

Not that I know anything, but he does plan on playing full court for 40 minutes. Could change, but that’s the plan. Heard SLU pressed 40 minutes against Loyola and wore them out. 
 

I’m guessing we’ll drop back after pressing and play a zone a fair amount. It will help protect Has.  We don’t have to always press full court. He obviously likes the half court trap. 
 

A question, do I remember Correctly that the rule changed regarding the 10 second count not restarting when the ball goes out or a timeout is called? If so, more teams will press. 

 

Agreed, could change. Mike Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan til they get punched in the face."

SLU can press for 40 and wear out Loyola in an exhibition. Not so much vs. the Florida States, Virginia Techs and even better A10 teams. They're better equipped to swarm SLU, force the half court game.

Think it's more likely Ford will use pressure selectively to inject energy into SLU scoring droughts & swing momentum when the other team is on scoring streaks. Hope the press happens more frequently than last year, with more depth and skillsets.

Kudos to TFord for nabbing two big centers to fill the void left by Santos and Gordin...and for nabbing a JUCO and transfer to help fill the void left by the graduation of JBess.

Most promising development so far is DJacobs. If he stays healthy and avoids the yips, could help this team perform better than expected with all the newbies.

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15 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

If we press, and Bell is the back line, he will be lifting his hand in less than two minutes.

Base level conditioning for 40 minutes of pressing a game requires all players to punch out a sub six minute mile, sixteen quarter miles under 60 seconds with a twenty second break in between each, and then the damn shuttle runs on the court. These are just the running time tests, not the running conditioning.

I have been around programs that successfully turned heavy footed trolls into NBA centers(Archibald, Meyers, and Augustine yes, Clark no)We all have also seen programs that had trolls who were great college centers that washed out in the pros(Ostergag at Kansas, Big Country Reeves at OSU.)

You have working hard, you have great work ethic, and then you have hammerbody hard, like Conklin and Bess. Currently Goodwin and French are the best in conference at their positions because they are hammer bodies.

Ford may be using starter talk to motivate Bell, I would do the same. Btw, I called More than one Bills center a heavy footed troll, and they laughed. They will be the first to not worry about ground clearance when they jump. Once you are over 250 lbs, rebounds are just as much about sealing, clearing out, and positioning...ask Dobbs about that.

your comments are disgusting...troll....

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No. Not at all. Disagree all you want.  Would be boring without disagreement.

But all right, we will do it your way. Pressing or not pressing, fast tempo or not fast tempo has no bearing on the minutes a player gets. Instead, the players minutes are dictated solely by the decision-making of the head coach.  A guy may have been poorly coached previously (or I also said said injured, overweight, etc) or not, can make good plays or bad plays and the coach can leave him in the game.

Now where you are wrong is making the conclusion or assumptions that I believe playing defense is easy or doesnt require discipline and the mastering of cerain concepts.  Of course it does. And if a player does not master these basic concepts, he will be on the bench. And no, I never said that a player need only listen to coach but instead must perform and execute what coach tells him to do. And again, if a player does not execute and perform, he will be on the bench. 
And while defense and pressing can be quite difficult and involve the mastering of certain basic techniques, learning defense and defensive assignments on the press is easier to learn than proper spacing, screening and playing without the ball on half court offense.  Defense and pressing largely involves effort, desire and raw ability  
All I was saying is that pressing and up-tempo offense leads to a quicker paced offense, a higher likelihood of scoring on a fast break as opposed to a slow and deliberate half-court offense.requiring a mastery of the offense . It also requires a deeper bench (9 to 10) as opposed to (6 to 8 guys) meaning more needed to play - assuming they are not a defensive liability as said above. Also, I said that mistakes will happen but if the offense has 20 additional possessions with the ball because of their up-tempo offense, the mistakes will be minimized due to 20 more opportunities. 

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54 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

No. Not at all. Disagree all you want.  Would be boring without disagreement.

But all right, we will do it your way. Pressing or not pressing, fast tempo or not fast tempo has no bearing on the minutes a player gets. Instead, the players minutes are dictated solely by the decision-making of the head coach.  A guy may have been poorly coached previously (or I also said said injured, overweight, etc) or not, can make good plays or bad plays and the coach can leave him in the game.

Now where you are wrong is making the conclusion or assumptions that I believe playing defense is easy or doesnt require discipline and the mastering of cerain concepts.  Of course it does. And if a player does not master these basic concepts, he will be on the bench. And no, I never said that a player need only listen to coach but instead must perform and execute what coach tells him to do. And again, if a player does not execute and perform, he will be on the bench. 
And while defense and pressing can be quite difficult and involve the mastering of certain basic techniques, learning defense and defensive assignments on the press is easier to learn than proper spacing, screening and playing without the ball on half court offense.  Defense and pressing largely involves effort, desire and raw ability  
All I was saying is that pressing and up-tempo offense leads to a quicker paced offense, a higher likelihood of scoring on a fast break as opposed to a slow and deliberate half-court offense.requiring a mastery of the offense . It also requires a deeper bench (9 to 10) as opposed to (6 to 8 guys) meaning more needed to play - assuming they are not a defensive liability as said above. Also, I said that mistakes will happen but if the offense has 20 additional possessions with the ball because of their up-tempo offense, the mistakes will be minimized due to 20 more opportunities. 

I agree playing fast and pressing makes minutes available to more players. My assumption though was based upon your statement. I'm getting that it's not what you meant but it is what you said below. 

t gives much needed touches and minutes to all who apparently have had prior development issues (from bad coaching, to played different positions, to not played enough b/c of weight issues, injury issues...

That statement certainly makes it seem as if you are saying players with development issues and poor coaching (plus other issues) will get court time due to the press regardless of their issues. I disagree 

Pressing or not pressing, fast tempo or not fast tempo has no bearing on the minutes a player gets. Instead, the players minutes are dictated solely by the decision-making of the head coach.  A guy may have been poorly coached previously (or I also said said injured, overweight, etc) or not, can make good plays or bad plays and the coach can leave him in the game.

The above statement is completely different from your original statement. 

I get what your meaning is and I agree. If we play fast we need more depth

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9 hours ago, Cincybill said:

You guys can keep arguing but this isn't true lol. Especially for ultra athletic players. Carry on!!

Well damn isn't that brilliant. Certainly if a players is ultra athletic and possesses a large athletic advantage over his opponent he can overcome some defensive understanding liabilities.  Thanks for chiming in

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There are two basic rules to a successful press.

1.  Deny passes to the middle of the floor, 

2. Do not let the man with the ball beat you on the dribble on the sideline or the baseline.

Do those two things and play hard and close on your man you will succeed.   

Now an effective matchup half court zone or the help responsibilities on denial man to man well we could talk for hours.   

Sorry skip im with cincy on this one.

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Only problem is we don’t have any ultra athletic players. We have players who just arrived who bump up our athleticism, and we are in the top half of a solid conference, but we are not feeding NBA teams with four of five players.

Skip is right; a full court, 3/4 court, diamond drag, box one, and half court trap all require extensive coaching, practice, and game time to get players dialed in. Athleticism only drives the car so far - the knowledge on when to jump a ballhandler, what angle to take, how and why to help double are all critical.

Press defense is just like teaching point guards when and how to go to the hoop, and when to stop, when to pass, etc. You still end up with fifth year seniors driving into help defense, losing the ball, getting a charge, and having a shot stuffed every game. The new guys need hours of press practice and watching tape to learn the how to.

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Everything requires practice. 

Go watch film of shaka's havoc at VCU or even Arkansas 40 minutes of hell.  Both basically succeeded on hustle and swarming and denying passing oppirtunities and forcing dribblers to the middle where their help was at. 

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I have watched Shaka's havoc at VCU and if we can do something like it, I am totally in favor of it. I think, and please remember I am not well versed in the technical aspects of basketball, that if we start this type of play from the beginning, during the exhibition and non conference games, we may develop it to a better level by the time conference play comes in. However, what variation or variations of this full press play are likely to be used by Ford are beyond my capability to guess. Best of all, the first exhibition game, against a team with two very large players, is tomorrow!

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4 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

Only problem is we don’t have any ultra athletic players. We have players who just arrived who bump up our athleticism, and we are in the top half of a solid conference, but we are not feeding NBA teams with four of five players.

Well that's a rather insulting comment... and wrong.   Goodwin is one of the most athletic guys in the league.   His jumping/offensive rebounding is "ultra athletic".   Will he play in the NBA?  probably not.  And from the stories I hear, read about Hargove, he too sounds "ultra athletic".   How many guys do you know who can high jump like he can?   Ally oop passes from teammates? And from what I hear, Jacobs is quite athletic too.   

Guess I just tired of trashing our own players...  I didn't realize our competition in A-10 (from Davidson, VCU and UD through UMass and Fordham) are all stacked with ultra athletic players, most of whom are NBA bound.   And in the other thread, how great their coaches are --- future HOF coaches!  Good to know!

5 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

Skip is right; a full court, 3/4 court, diamond drag, box one, and half court trap all require extensive coaching, practice, and game time to get players dialed in. Athleticism only drives the car so far - the knowledge on when to jump a ballhandler, what angle to take, how and why to help double are all critical.

And wrong again.  Skip never once any or all of the above types of presses or defensive schemes.   Only looking to play uptempo for possibly 40 minutes. It is you who is attempting to complicate things with numerous defensive schemes.   Who said anything about a half court trap?  other than you.   And while we are at it, how complicated really is a box and one?   Good stuff!

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