Perkins Article in PD

[HoosierPal]

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/slu-s-perkins-preparing-for-transition-from-juco-to-division/article_b64d6984-5303-5938-99a1-64e48b075e14.html

Interesting article in the Post this morning on Perkins.  One comment stood out for me. "Perkins played some power forward last year, a spot that his body really didn’t fit. But he averaged eight rebounds. He figures to spend more time on the perimeter for the Billikens."  For those speculating having him play alongside French in the paint, that might not happen all that much.  The article lists him at 6'5", which is shorter than the 6'6" on the SLU roster page. Heights and weights are always a big, "Who Knows?"

[moytoy12]

I’m sure it was stated on here at some point, but didn’t realize he hit 43% from 3 as a freshman at SWIC. 

[Pistol]

3 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

I’m sure it was stated on here at some point, but didn’t realize he hit 43% from 3 as a freshman at SWIC. 

He's always been pretty efficient from the perimeter but doesn't shoot a ton. That .426 his freshman year came on 26/61 shooting, or 0.9/2.2 per game. He shot more his sophomore season- 41/114 overall, or 1.5/4.2 per game, for .360. So only about 4.5 of his 26.4 points per game were coming from outside, even after a near doubling in attempts.

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/slu-s-perkins-preparing-for-transition-from-juco-to-division/article_b64d6984-5303-5938-99a1-64e48b075e14.html

Interesting article in the Post this morning on Perkins.  One comment stood out for me. "Perkins played some power forward last year, a spot that his body really didn’t fit. But he averaged eight rebounds. He figures to spend more time on the perimeter for the Billikens."  For those speculating having him play alongside French in the paint, that might not happen all that much.  The article lists him at 6'5", which is shorter than the 6'6" on the SLU roster page. Heights and weights are always a big, "Who Knows?"

There was never any chance Perkins would play alongside French in the paint.  He's a perimeter player. We're going to play 4 out, one in, just like we did last year after Gordon left.  Based on present personnel we really don't have any choice.  We can't afford to have nonshooters logging significant minutes at the 1, the 4 AND the 5.

Interesting that Stu chose to focus on his mid-range game as an area that could use improvement.  Perkins is an easy-going kid so he's not going to correct Stu but mid-range is the strongest part of his game.  And he's also too modest to bring up that he lit up Thatch for 30+ points in high school.

[slu72]

Not that it really matters, but what other schools pursued Perkins? 

[Pistol]

53 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Not that it really matters, but what other schools pursued Perkins? 

He was committed to Louisiana-Monroe before reopening his recruitment. I don't know who else was involved before he went with SLU.

[cheeseman]

35 minutes ago, Pistol said:

He was committed to Louisiana-Monroe before reopening his recruitment. I don't know who else was involved before he went with SLU.

Was that from when he was at SWIC or from High School?

[Clock_Tower]

2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

There was never any chance Perkins would play alongside French in the paint.  He's a perimeter player. We're going to play 4 out, one in, just like we did last year after Gordon left.  Based on present personnel we really don't have any choice.  We can't afford to have nonshooters logging significant minutes at the 1, the 4 AND the 5.

Interesting that Stu chose to focus on his mid-range game as an area that could use improvement.  Perkins is an easy-going kid so he's not going to correct Stu but mid-range is the strongest part of his game.  And he's also too modest to bring up that he lit up Thatch for 30+ points in high school.

Agree w needing production at the 1,4 and 5 but after Gordon left,  didnt we play French and Foreman in the post?  

[Pistol]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

Not that it really matters, but what other schools pursued Perkins? 

 

8 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Was that from when he was at SWIC or from High School?

He committed to ULM when he was at SWIC. Reopened his recruitment in mid-September 2018. Heard from SLU, Wichita State, UT-Martin, and others. Signed with SLU in November 2018.

[3star_recruit]

37 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Agree w needing production at the 1,4 and 5 but after Gordon left,  didnt we play French and Foreman in the post?  

Yes, but when Bess played the 4, we played 4 out and one in. We dont't have an effective replacement for Foreman. I'll believe Bell can play 25 min at the 5 so French can be our 4 when I see it.

[billiken_roy]

37 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Agree w needing production at the 1,4 and 5 but after Gordon left,  didnt we play French and Foreman in the post?  

foreman pretty much stayed out of the way if he was in the game at the same time as french.   staying on the weak side down low and then crashing the boards if a shot went up.   if a guard got in trouble he would come out to help to get a pass, but i wouldnt say offensively foreman was an equal partner in the post offensively.  and we all know that defensively if we werent in a man to man, foreman was on top of the one three one.

[Clock_Tower]

Yes.  Foreman was certainly a more unique player.   I believe his hip (and other injuries) kept him from having an even better Senior year.   I certainly thought/assumed his scoring would have been higher last year than it was.   But Foreman essentially had no perimeter game.

And yes, unfair to expect Perkins to equal the ability of Bess to play the 4 - where he used his strength and savvy Senior skills.  Bess certainly did not do this when he first arrived at SLU.

And yes, while I am pleased to have landed two 6'10" post men, and while I am pleased to hear about Bell's conditioning, weight loss and somewhat surprising early play, I have to believe that Coach Ford decided to go with a 4-1 when he did not land a graduate/Senior transfer.  Maybe Hargrove grows into the position, maybe Bell gives us 15-20 minutes, maybe Yuri grows into the PG position as well ...  but I am expecting us to play up tempo this year, for us to press some on defense, for Goodwin to run the PG and be flanked by 3 of the following (Thatch, Perkins, Weaver, Jimerson and Hargrove) with French playing inside.   Yuri will then spell Goodwin,  sometimes Bell will play alongside and French and Bell/Hargrove will have to fill in for French when he needs a break/gets in foul trouble.

 

[Billiken Rich]

10 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes.  Foreman was certainly a more unique player.   I believe his hip (and other injuries) kept him from having an even better Senior year.   I certainly thought/assumed his scoring would have been higher last year than it was.   But Foreman essentially had no perimeter game.

And yes, unfair to expect Perkins to equal the ability of Bess to play the 4 - where he used his strength and savvy Senior skills.  Bess certainly did not do this when he first arrived at SLU.

And yes, while I am pleased to have landed two 6'10" post men, and while I am pleased to hear about Bell's conditioning, weight loss and somewhat surprising early play, I have to believe that Coach Ford decided to go with a 4-1 when he did not land a graduate/Senior transfer.  Maybe Hargrove grows into the position, maybe Bell gives us 15-20 minutes, maybe Yuri grows into the PG position as well ...  but I am expecting us to play up tempo this year, for us to press some on defense, for Goodwin to run the PG and be flanked by 3 of the following (Thatch, Perkins, Weaver, Jimerson and Hargrove) with French playing inside.   Yuri will then spell Goodwin,  sometimes Bell will play alongside and French and Bell/Hargrove will have to fill in for French when he needs a break/gets in foul trouble.

 

So many options.  It's been a long time since we we've been this deep......

[Sheltiedave]

Goodwin showed last year that he did not have high level decision making when on-ball leading the break.

The PD article showed a curve ball with Perkins - he will not get much time at PF at all. This changes the PF/center rotation over to a pod of Hargrove, Bell, and Hankton, with French/Bell being the projected pod for the dedicated PF.

Last year our 1-3-1 press was effectective  because Foreman’s presence high at the front of the press allowed Bess, Thatch, and Goodwin to both jump the passing lanes and to body the ball handler to the high sideline, with a resultant high difficulty pass to break the trap.

Without Foreman and Bess, the inbounds pass and second pass can both be flatter, so we’ll see fewer turnovers off the ball. Hopefully Weaver, Hargrove, and Collins represent upgrades in foot speed so we can create more on ball pressure.

[Cowboy]

27 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

So many options.  It's been a long time since we we've been this deep......

-it could be that your dots mean this, but I'll say it, let's hope we have these options the entire season

2 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Goodwin showed last year that he did not have high level decision making when on-ball leading the break.

The PD article showed a curve ball with Perkins - he will not get much time at PF at all. This changes the PF/center rotation over to a pod of Hargrove, Bell, and Hankton, with French/Bell being the projected pod for the dedicated PF.

Last year our 1-3-1 press was effectective  because Foreman’s presence high at the front of the press allowed Bess, Thatch, and Goodwin to both jump the passing lanes and to body the ball handler to the high sideline, with a resultant high difficulty pass to break the trap.

Without Foreman and Bess, the inbounds pass and second pass can both be flatter, so we’ll see fewer turnovers off the ball. Hopefully Weaver, Hargrove, and Collins represent upgrades in foot speed so we can create more on ball pressure.

-I do not see THJr as a PF and certainly not a C this season, I guess it is possible he could grow into that so I'll let the future come, he will try whatever CFord and the Staff ask of him, but putting him in that slot is doing him no favors, the best way to use his talents at current is in a fast paced game being ahead of such beef, I can see him at the top of a 1-3-1 and being more disruptive than DJF was and able when getting a deflection or steal taking it to the basket with success 

[3star_recruit]

14 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Goodwin showed last year that he did not have high level decision making when on-ball leading the break.

The PD article showed a curve ball with Perkins - he will not get much time at PF at all. This changes the PF/center rotation over to a pod of Hargrove, Bell, and Hankton, with French/Bell being the projected pod for the dedicated PF.

Last year our 1-3-1 press was effectective  because Foreman’s presence high at the front of the press allowed Bess, Thatch, and Goodwin to both jump the passing lanes and to body the ball handler to the high sideline, with a resultant high difficulty pass to break the trap.

Without Foreman and Bess, the inbounds pass and second pass can both be flatter, so we’ll see fewer turnovers off the ball. Hopefully Weaver, Hargrove, and Collins represent upgrades in foot speed so we can create more on ball pressure.

Coach has to get Perkins offense and rebounding on the floor somehow. If he's not logging significant minutes at the 4, I don't see how he does it. The 2/3 positions are already pretty crowded. To have arguably the most talented offensive player on the team playing backup minutes as Stu's article implies, is a waste.

There just aren't that many productive 4 men in the A-10 to be overly concerned with post defense at that position.

[HoosierPal]

4 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

There was never any chance Perkins would play alongside French in the paint.  He's a perimeter player. We're going to play 4 out, one in, just like we did last year after Gordon left.  Based on present personnel we really don't have any choice.  We can't afford to have non-shooters logging significant minutes at the 1, the 4 AND the 5.

 

 

7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Coach has to get Perkins offense and rebounding on the floor somehow. If he's not logging significant minutes at the 4, I don't see how he does it.

?

[Sheltiedave]

3 star, I agree with you there, I’m just confabulating how to protect French from getting into foul trouble early and often.

We had Foreman and to a lesser extent, Bess to throw at the weak side big on d last year. Now we have French more exposed in our full court 1-3-1(if it lasts, Ford loves it) and in our conventional man to man. Our 2-3 zone gets wonky as well, with French being the slide center on the wing and key rotation. It will be interesting.

Cowboy, I agree with you that Hargrove’s natural slot is replacing Foreman on the press. He also is the best fast ball deny big in the paint to help French, so I hope he can develop fast enough to become a viable relief  man. Bell will get his minutes to absorb fouls, gain experience, practice technique, and hopefully mature his skill set.

Early on, Bell will need a blow after two minutes, Hargrove can easily hit ten minutes unless he is getting abused. Hankton is a wild card.

[3star_recruit]

30 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

 

?

By the 4 I mean what position Perkins is defending, not how he plays on offense. He's going to slash and shoot jump shots. That's what he does.

[cheeseman]

6 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

3 star, I agree with you there, I’m just confabulating how to protect French from getting into foul trouble early and often.

We had Foreman and to a lesser extent, Bess to throw at the weak side big on d last year. Now we have French more exposed in our full court 1-3-1(if it lasts, Ford loves it) and in our conventional man to man. Our 2-3 zone gets wonky as well, with French being the slide center on the wing and key rotation. It will be interesting.

Cowboy, I agree with you that Hargrove’s natural slot is replacing Foreman on the press. He also is the best fast ball deny big in the paint to help French, so I hope he can develop fast enough to become a viable relief  man. Bell will get his minutes to absorb fouls, gain experience, practice technique, and hopefully mature his skill set.

Early on, Bell will need a blow after two minutes, Hargrove can easily hit ten minutes unless he is getting abused. Hankton is a wild card.

Actually, I do not recall that French had a big foul trouble issue last year.  I could be wrong but I think he stayed on the floor pretty well.

[billiken_roy]

7 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

Goodwin showed last year that he did not have high level decision making when on-ball leading the break.

The PD article showed a curve ball with Perkins - he will not get much time at PF at all. This changes the PF/center rotation over to a pod of Hargrove, Bell, and Hankton, with French/Bell being the projected pod for the dedicated PF.

Last year our 1-3-1 press was effectective  because Foreman’s presence high at the front of the press allowed Bess, Thatch, and Goodwin to both jump the passing lanes and to body the ball handler to the high sideline, with a resultant high difficulty pass to break the trap.

Without Foreman and Bess, the inbounds pass and second pass can both be flatter, so we’ll see fewer turnovers off the ball. Hopefully Weaver, Hargrove, and Collins represent upgrades in foot speed so we can create more on ball pressure.

Sheltie, goodwin had the best assist to turnover ratio on the team.   If he's as horrible with the ball as you claim, the whole team must really suck.

[3star_recruit]

18 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Sheltie, goodwin had the best assist to turnover ratio on the team.   If he's as horrible with the ball as you claim, the whole team must really suck.

Suck is a harsh word. Considering that Isabell, the player with whom he shared point guard responsibilities, had an assist to turnover ratio of 1.2, our playmaking was subpar. This isn't a new development. The only Billiken guard with a 2 to 1 assist ratio in the past 25 years was Kwamain Mitchell in his junior year. Playmaking is an issue almost every year.

[billiken_roy]

Right isabell was 1 2. Goodwin 1.4.   Sheltie says he's poor.

[Clock_Tower]

15 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

3 star, I agree with you there, I’m just confabulating how to protect French from getting into foul trouble early and often.

We had Foreman and to a lesser extent, Bess to throw at the weak side big on d last year. Now we have French more exposed in our full court 1-3-1(if it lasts, Ford loves it) and in our conventional man to man. Our 2-3 zone gets wonky as well, with French being the slide center on the wing and key rotation. It will be interesting.

Cowboy, I agree with you that Hargrove’s natural slot is replacing Foreman on the press. He also is the best fast ball deny big in the paint to help French, so I hope he can develop fast enough to become a viable relief  man. Bell will get his minutes to absorb fouls, gain experience, practice technique, and hopefully mature his skill set.

Early on, Bell will need a blow after two minutes, Hargrove can easily hit ten minutes unless he is getting abused. Hankton is a wild card.

Replacing Foreman will not be all that tough.  Replacing Bess will be very hard.   And replacing the Isabell we saw down the stretch will also be hard - not the Isabell we watched the first 2/3's of the season.   As to turnovers, Isabell made the most, followed by Goodwin.   French also had a lot himself.  

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/139/saint-louis-billikens

IMO, most of our turnovers last year were due to frustration and attempts to try and do too much - hero ball.   Our team was not clicking for most of the year and each guy tried to do too much and the results were not all that great.   Guess what:   when you make a nice pass to a wide open teammate who misses the shot, you don't get credit for an assist.  But if he makes the shot, you do.  Perimeter shooting was a big problem for us last year - we missed a lot of them.   And if you know he will miss the shot again, or will pass on taking the shot, maybe you dribble 1 more time and make a more difficult pass to someone else, and if the more difficult pass doesn't work, now you have a turnover.  

Believe we need to be careful about interpreting individual stats in a team game.

[slu72]

Playmaking issue resolved: Yurimania!