Billiken Rich Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Just now, GBL_Bills said: Ah yes. The noble Toilet Rebellion of 2021 fighting against the evil water conservation overlords. "Give me 2L flushes, or give me death!" Presumably you'd have gladly paid the tax on on your tea and poo poo'ed those rowdy ne'er do wells who wasted all of that Earl Grey by throwing it into the harbor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 21 hours ago, cheeseman said: Being stupid is not a reason just an excuse. nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Billiken Rich said: C'mon Cheezy. There's a whole series of movies about the plucky rebellion chafing against their evil overlords. Just because you're part of the empire doesn't mean that the rebels have no beef. It's all about your point of view...... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBL_Bills Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Billiken Rich said: Presumably you'd have gladly paid the tax on on your tea and poo poo'ed those rowdy ne'er do wells who wasted all of that Earl Grey by throwing it into the harbor? More of a coffee guy, myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Just now, GBL_Bills said: More of a coffee guy, myself. Me Too AND I'm not saying the state is doing the right thing regarding the soccer stadium. I actually think public financing of sports venues, within reason, is a necessary evil. I just think it's pretty easy to understand the feelings of outstate law makers and all of us peons here in flyover country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: Me Too AND I'm not saying the state is doing the right thing regarding the soccer stadium. I actually think public financing of sports venues, within reason, is a necessary evil. I just think it's pretty easy to understand the feelings of outstate law makers and all of us peons here in flyover country. That is the point - this is not a public financing of the stadium -it is privately funded. The money they were suppose to get was for infrastructure. As I said in a previous post SLU, KC and the Cardinals all got money for the same thing. I bet UMC also got money like this for arenas and stadiums. The idea is that once the area is set up for the stadium then other businesses will access the infrastructure that is being put in place. These type of development funds ultimately pay for themselves. Governments give companies this kind of money all the time to lure them or to keep them. As far as the outstate issue goes, not sure what the total is today but I imagine it is somewhat similar, a few years ago for every $1 the StL region sent to Jeff City, it only got about 78 cents back. Where do you think the rest of the money went - to the outstate people. It is very shortsighted of them to not recognize that they are the primary beneficiaries of any tax revenue generated in StL and KC. Bottom line, nobody is going to build a soccer stadium in some small town outstate but they will in StL or KC. TheChosenOne, Zink, slufanskip and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Just now, cheeseman said: That is the point - this is not a public financing of the stadium -it is privately funded. The money they were suppose to get was for infrastructure. As I said in a previous post SLU, KC and the Cardinals all got money for the same thing. I bet UMC also got money like this for arenas and stadiums. The idea is that once the area is set up for the stadium then other businesses will access the infrastructure that is being put in place. These type of development funds ultimately pay for themselves. Governments give companies this kind of money all the time to lure them or to keep them. As far as the outstate issue goes, not sure what the total is today but I imagine it is somewhat similar, a few years ago for every $1 the StL region sent to Jeff City, it only got about 78 cents back. Where do you think the rest of the money went - to the outstate people. It is very shortsighted of them to not recognize that they are the primary beneficiaries of any tax revenue generated in StL and KC. Bottom line, nobody is going to build a soccer stadium in some small town outstate but they will in StL or KC. I get it and agree. I'm willing to go farther into the the stadium financing than most. It would help if those seeking the financing would not talk crazy numbers about the economic benefits of the deals. Money is one thing and control is another. Better together was a debacle that worried people more about control than money in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 I hate to do this since it is obviously me being lazy, but does anyone know what sort of money the state has contributed to the various KC sports developments? I know Kaufmann had some renovations recently and Arrowhead either did as well or will be and I know the Sprint Center was built not too long ago. Also, who paid for the recent renovations of Enterprise Center? Just curious and I haven't paid overly close attention to any of it. I recall the debates about the riverfront football stadium and the Enterprise Center (which I read one article that made it apparent that should have been on the Blues, but I don't recall how that got resolved or if my memory is even accurate) and then the soccer stadium which apparently isn't quite resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 44 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said: I hate to do this since it is obviously me being lazy, but does anyone know what sort of money the state has contributed to the various KC sports developments? I know Kaufmann had some renovations recently and Arrowhead either did as well or will be and I know the Sprint Center was built not too long ago. Also, who paid for the recent renovations of Enterprise Center? Just curious and I haven't paid overly close attention to any of it. I recall the debates about the riverfront football stadium and the Enterprise Center (which I read one article that made it apparent that should have been on the Blues, but I don't recall how that got resolved or if my memory is even accurate) and then the soccer stadium which apparently isn't quite resolved. I believe the City put the bonds out for the Enterprise Center which was part of some earlier agreement. I think I read somewhere on the board that KC has gotten $75 million over the last 15 years. SLU got $5 million. I am not sure what the Cardinals got nor do I have any idea what UMC may have gotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slu let the dogs out? Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 23 hours ago, TheChosenOne said: I hate to do this since it is obviously me being lazy, but does anyone know what sort of money the state has contributed to the various KC sports developments? I know Kaufmann had some renovations recently and Arrowhead either did as well or will be and I know the Sprint Center was built not too long ago. Also, who paid for the recent renovations of Enterprise Center? Just curious and I haven't paid overly close attention to any of it. I recall the debates about the riverfront football stadium and the Enterprise Center (which I read one article that made it apparent that should have been on the Blues, but I don't recall how that got resolved or if my memory is even accurate) and then the soccer stadium which apparently isn't quite resolved. Randy Karraker tweeted out a link to an article from 2008 about the Chiefs receiving $25M in tax credits for moving their training facility back to MO. I'm too lazy follow up on that article so not sure what type of tax credits they were or whether or not they ended up receiving them. A few things I found interesting from the article: The board voted 10-0 to approve the credits This was in 2010 during the economic downturn This came 2 years after the Chiefs received $50M in credits for Arrowhead Chiefs would only use the facility for a few weeks each August but since it's being built on Missouri Western's campus, the school could use it the rest of the year My favorite part of the article: The $25M award in credits exceeded the annual cap so they needed to get approval from the directors of the DOR and DED. Sounds like the entire state bent over backwards to hand the Chiefs this money. https://www.twincities.com/2008/12/16/missouri-board-approves-25m-tax-breaks-for-chiefs/ TheChosenOne likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted January 24, 2020 Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 Despite the governor reneging on his Tax Credit promise, it looks like the Stadium Project is about to begin. https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/five-highway-i--ramps-to-close-permanently-on-feb/article_6c311c99-c464-5506-8296-a994c1c724c3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 26 minutes ago, HoosierPal said: Despite the governor reneging on his Tax Credit promise, it looks like the Stadium Project is about to begin. https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/five-highway-i--ramps-to-close-permanently-on-feb/article_6c311c99-c464-5506-8296-a994c1c724c3.html This could be moving forward simply for the NGA. Not sure where the MLS group is on coming up with the shortfall from the State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, cheeseman said: This could be moving forward simply for the NGA. Not sure where the MLS group is on coming up with the shortfall from the State. LOL.... you mean the pocket change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 25 minutes ago, cheeseman said: This could be moving forward simply for the NGA. It is. It would've happened regardless of the status of the stadium project. But as I understand it, MODOT has accelerated its schedule due to the stadium plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted January 24, 2020 Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 34 minutes ago, Box and Won said: It is. It would've happened regardless of the status of the stadium project. But as I understand it, MODOT has accelerated its schedule due to the stadium plans. Yes on MODOT accelerating the project for the stadium Scattered media reports say that Gov will be coming forth with a reduced credit and that the MLS STL group is moving forward. I applaud the STL group for keeping this all internal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I still don't understand why Parson stopped the credit. It seems like a relatively apolitical issue and sort of standard stuff for infrastructure projects. For a non-elected governor up for reelection this year, I don't see how it's a political winner. Then again, I don't understand why the MO legislature and executive branch seem to stick it to the two major cities whenever possible. Take those two metros out of the state, and Missouri is basically West Virginia. I'd like to think there's a long-term cost to mistreating your economic engines, but maybe not. Regardless, I'm glad to see this moving forward. cgeldmacher, TheChosenOne and dlarry like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Your answer: The two largest cities in the state are bastions of one party rule that will give the Governor zero return on investment for his time or effort. Seems perfectly reasonable to me for the governor to be pandering to his constituency......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 27 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: Your answer: The two largest cities in the state are bastions of one party rule that will give the Governor zero return on investment for his time or effort. Seems perfectly reasonable to me for the governor to be pandering to his constituency......... Jamming up economic development and the richest Missourian is never a good strategy cgeldmacher, NextYearBill, SLU_Lax and 2 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 5 hours ago, RiseAndGrind said: Jamming up economic development and the richest Missourian is never a good strategy Yes. This is why Kansas City's soccer stadium and race car track are in Kansas. Nickel and diming millionaires for their "pocket change," as NewYearBill called it, can result in much more than pocket change going to other states other than Missouri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Billiken Rich said: Your answer: The two largest cities in the state are bastions of one party rule that will give the Governor zero return on investment for his time or effort. Seems perfectly reasonable to me for the governor to be pandering to his constituency......... Or....the governor actually does support the stadium project, but is not fully in sync with his staff who are actually the ones that held up the credits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, SShoe said: Or....the governor actually does support the stadium project, but is not fully in sync with his staff who are actually the ones that held up the credits. I can assure you the decision to short the MSL project didn’t happen without Parsons knowledge. He was receiving pressure from out state especially from Springfield that the out state areas are not getting their fair share. The problem is new business development tends to want to be in major metro areas for lots of reasons such as trained educated pool of people to hire, need to be by a major airport and sources of investors to name just a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Parsons didn't hesitate to fall on all fours for the Chiefs and Royals, but somehow its a crime against humanity to help STL with the MLS project. These rubes need to be reminded who butters their bread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Hard to see how allowing a unknown transportation board to quietly approve the previously discussed public funds, a relative nominal amount, for real changes to the underused, existing infrastructure would have alienated him with rural voters. The ownership group is bringing professional soccer to town, instantly creating a rival with KC and privately building the stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARon Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Parson doesn’t need STL and he knows it. Billiken Rich likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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