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I don't think Old Guy is totally wrong in his take. The big donor  who loves his school is already giving dollars to the program. He is getting the VIP treatment plus a tax deduction. Is he going to switch those dollars to a NIL? The Chris May's of the world will certainly  fight that. So the NIL market is a new market. Take the Luther Burden deal to sell potato chips with Old Vienna . If the chips sell it will be good for both. If they don't over time they will stop. My point is I think the NIL investor is a different market and may want a return on his dollars in some form. 

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41 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Roy, people with enough money to throw away large amounts of it without blinking and not expecting to profit from it are not abundant. As far as I can see a solution about how to profit from NILs has yet to be found. The novelty of NILs will go down and without profits the number of donors or "investors" in NILs will go down. I have no doubt that some schools (I assume those with a large football related income) will be able to pay large basketball NILs. This will, in my opinion, not be the case for schools which are small to medium in size and have no football program income.

Yes, the cat is out of the bag, but I do not think SLU will be among the schools known for large basketball NIL payments.

i disagree.  these overzealous people have so much money they can go one with this for infinitey.

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24 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I am curious as to just what Two Men and a Garden gave Fred that denotes a big ROI.  What was the straight trade deal as mentioned?  I see these things discussed in the abstract with no clear evidence of what went down.  Curious, that’s all.  
 

More importantly, I saw NIL as putting money in kids’ pockets for spending change in college.  I was educated on the pop per so many Instagram followers some time back but don’t get how free salsa or pickles or chicken tenders or even a Chevy Tahoe equate into the same monetary benefit as straight cash.

No you're not, you've been doing this schtick for months. Last time I'm going to indulge this "curiosity".

I assume you watched the response from this fan base to Fred's deal? This entire board was buying TM&AG and now they have repeat customers that weren't there. Not to mention the people not on this board or on social media posting their purchases. The terms beside it being trade were not public, so you won't know specifics but trade deals are what small business are most comfortable with. This is because it's easier and cheaper than cutting a monetary check. The baseline for Freds deal would be enough pickles to get him through each halftime this season but I would expect it's enough to stock his cabinets weekly or monthly as well.

EX: I sold a sponsorship to Texas Roadhouse in St. Charles back in the day when I worked in minor league sports. It was $1500 trade, I received a 10% commission on that sale($150 in coupons) and the players got $1350 of that. My monetary benefit was that I didn't have to pay for for like 5 dinners(aka I saved actual cash money)

Same goes for the athlete, if they are receiving free food that they would normally be paying for. Same goes for clothes, shoes, furniture etc.  But as they are getting the sponsorship directly they would received the entire amount.

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8 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Texas Roadhouse in St. Charles back in the day when I worked in minor league sports. It was $1500 trade, I received a 10% commission on that sale($150 in coupons)

I assume you spent it all on rolls and butter. 

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27 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I am curious as to just what Two Men and a Garden gave Fred that denotes a big ROI.  What was the straight trade deal as mentioned?  I see these things discussed in the abstract with no clear evidence of what went down.  Curious, that’s all.  
 

More importantly, I saw NIL as putting money in kids’ pockets for spending change in college.  I was educated on the pop per so many Instagram followers some time back but don’t get how free salsa or pickles or chicken tenders or even a Chevy Tahoe equate into the same monetary benefit as straight cash.

NIL is around because too many players were getting suspended from athletics because of goofy NCAA rules restricting their ability to earn income. The NCAA was deathly afraid of an antitrust lawsuit. Here we are. A vast majority of NCAA athletes will get $0. A slim minority will make 6 figures plus. And there will be quite a few that get somewhere between $5,000 and $90,000.

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Roy, exactly who are these people with all this money ready to be blown (given away) for  NILs? If you check the net worth (not including real estate) of the top 1% wealthiest families (not extended families) in the US, it is not as high as you may think. Last time I checked it took around $11 million in net worth to be in the top 1 percentile of the US wealthy. This is plainly not enough to be considered an "inexhaustible" amount of money. The families with seemingly inexhaustible amounts of money you are talking about are the ones in the top 0.001% percentile of the wealth pyramid.

No one with a net worth  of $11 M will be blowing $200,000 (around 2% of their net worth) per year without expecting returns on it. People do not get to billionaire status, or stay at billionaire status, by blowing money in paying professional salaries to student athletes. To get there and stay there you need to generate income and profits.

Willie and Taj are thinking correctly about this issue. Money does not fall from heaven in inexhaustible amounts. NILs are not limited to pocket money to be spent by student athletes, and schools like SLU do not have the income necessary to finance NILs at the professional level. So, where does SLU fall in this pyramid of NIL money, most certainly not at the top.

JMM28's post above is closer to a realistic future projection than grandiose thoughts of inexhaustible money being spent in NILs yearly. SOME schools may be able to field close to professional level basketball squads in a yearly basis, I do not think SLU is likely to be in this bracket.

If you want to check on the networth percentiles in the US, go here

https://dqydj.com/net-worth-in-the-united-states-zooming-in-on-the-top-centiles/

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56 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

NIL is around because too many players were getting suspended from athletics because of goofy NCAA rules restricting their ability to earn income. The NCAA was deathly afraid of an antitrust lawsuit. Here we are. A vast majority of NCAA athletes will get $0. A slim minority will make 6 figures plus. And there will be quite a few that get somewhere between $5,000 and $90,000.

This.....(out of good post reactions for today)

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old guy we can agree to disagree.   the slu boosters that regularly give 5 figures or more are very plentiful.   the difference is slu will now what to adjust who gets what percentage of the pie now that the basketball players are getting paid.   i am not smart enough to figure out who gets what.   that's why the AD gets paid to figure that out.   my guess is the obscene amount of money the head coaches get will be reduced to "find the money" to pay the players.   of course those schools that have a lesser pipeline wont be able to pay as much or at all and thus the inevitable day of reckoning is coming that not everyone can be a D1 school anymore because they cannot compete.   i expect a somewhat rough estimate of the big BCS schools forming their own D1 and the rest of us become D1B.   which will only make it worse as the D! remaining will get all the TV and Tourney money and the big boosters will all want their selves associated with these schools so the divide will become even larger.   

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6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

old guy we can agree to disagree.   the slu boosters that regularly give 5 figures or more are very plentiful.   the difference is slu will now what to adjust who gets what percentage of the pie now that the basketball players are getting paid.   i am not smart enough to figure out who gets what.   that's why the AD gets paid to figure that out.   my guess is the obscene amount of money the head coaches get will be reduced to "find the money" to pay the players.   of course those schools that have a lesser pipeline wont be able to pay as much or at all and thus the inevitable day of reckoning is coming that not everyone can be a D1 school anymore because they cannot compete.   i expect a somewhat rough estimate of the big BCS schools forming their own D1 and the rest of us become D1B.   which will only make it worse as the D! remaining will get all the TV and Tourney money and the big boosters will all want their selves associated with these schools so the divide will become even larger.   

Good post, B'roy. I thought the same when NIL became a reality. There is just no way SLU and most mids can compete with the big State U's. Take Ohio State for example, they are the #1 sports team in all of Ohio. Their fan base is basically the whole state. Folks that went to other Ohio schools routinely support the Buckeyes sports teams, especially the FB team. You may have graduated from X and would cheer on the Musketeers to be beat the Buckeyes on the court, but during FB season that X fan is likely wearing Buckeye apparel and singing Hang on Sloopy. Ohio State has major boosters by the bushel and ready to shell out whatever it takes to make their two revenue sports winners on a national level. The increased TV revenues only exaggerates the unevenness of the playing field. You are right that the day is coming where the P5's will unite and become the major leagues of college sports. Leaving the rest of to be in the minors. Down the road, I don't think even the Beast schools will be able to compete with the P5's NIL's for top level talent. 

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I do think the next major player to say something about NIL will be our good friends in the….. IRS.

Give money to a school to build a stadium, tax deductible. Give money to some player, not so much. Also, they get a bunch of new people who will be looking at the same income level/wealth level as the big NIL donors.  Those people would be well advised to follow all appropriate tax reporting guidelines.  Which brings us to the next group who has to worry about this, the players, who would also be well advised to report and pay all applicable taxes to the IRS, especially if the big donors are doing the same, since the IRS will have a great roadmap to follow up.  

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

old guy we can agree to disagree.   the slu boosters that regularly give 5 figures or more are very plentiful.   the difference is slu will now what to adjust who gets what percentage of the pie now that the basketball players are getting paid.   i am not smart enough to figure out who gets what.   that's why the AD gets paid to figure that out.   my guess is the obscene amount of money the head coaches get will be reduced to "find the money" to pay the players.   of course those schools that have a lesser pipeline wont be able to pay as much or at all and thus the inevitable day of reckoning is coming that not everyone can be a D1 school anymore because they cannot compete.   i expect a somewhat rough estimate of the big BCS schools forming their own D1 and the rest of us become D1B.   which will only make it worse as the D! remaining will get all the TV and Tourney money and the big boosters will all want their selves associated with these schools so the divide will become even larger.   

 

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

Good post, B'roy. I thought the same when NIL became a reality. There is just no way SLU and most mids can compete with the big State U's. Take Ohio State for example, they are the #1 sports team in all of Ohio. Their fan base is basically the whole state. Folks that went to other Ohio schools routinely support the Buckeyes sports teams, especially the FB team. You may have graduated from X and would cheer on the Musketeers to be beat the Buckeyes on the court, but during FB season that X fan is likely wearing Buckeye apparel and singing Hang on Sloopy. Ohio State has major boosters by the bushel and ready to shell out whatever it takes to make their two revenue sports winners on a national level. The increased TV revenues only exaggerates the unevenness of the playing field. You are right that the day is coming where the P5's will unite and become the major leagues of college sports. Leaving the rest of to be in the minors. Down the road, I don't think even the Beast schools will be able to compete with the P5's NIL's for top level talent. 

Agree, but remember 5 figure donations go from 10,000 to 99,000. I would not expect the median to be near the top level.

43 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

I do think the next major player to say something about NIL will be our good friends in the….. IRS.

Give money to a school to build a stadium, tax deductible. Give money to some player, not so much. Also, they get a bunch of new people who will be looking at the same income level/wealth level as the big NIL donors.  Those people would be well advised to follow all appropriate tax reporting guidelines.  Which brings us to the next group who has to worry about this, the players, who would also be well advised to report and pay all applicable taxes to the IRS, especially if the big donors are doing the same, since the IRS will have a great roadmap to follow up.  

Also agree, taxes play a major role in everything related to wealth.

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

old guy we can agree to disagree.   the slu boosters that regularly give 5 figures or more are very plentiful.   the difference is slu will now what to adjust who gets what percentage of the pie now that the basketball players are getting paid.   i am not smart enough to figure out who gets what.   that's why the AD gets paid to figure that out.   my guess is the obscene amount of money the head coaches get will be reduced to "find the money" to pay the players.   of course those schools that have a lesser pipeline wont be able to pay as much or at all and thus the inevitable day of reckoning is coming that not everyone can be a D1 school anymore because they cannot compete.   i expect a somewhat rough estimate of the big BCS schools forming their own D1 and the rest of us become D1B.   which will only make it worse as the D! remaining will get all the TV and Tourney money and the big boosters will all want their selves associated with these schools so the divide will become even larger.   

Agree Roy its coming and I think in the end it will be a mistake only time will tell.

I will only watch D1B basketball if it comes to 2 levels of D1, I lost my interest in big conferences years ago.

I believe unless a high school player is really special the top level D1 schools will not have freshman, the majority of the players will be mostly transfers from the D1B.  I think D1B schools will get a lot of good high school players and improve their skill set and they will move on to play semi-pro in the top level D1 schools.  Coach Ford will have to sell the kids that he can prepare them for the next level which is unfortunately semi-pro D1.

I will enjoy watching 18 and 19 year old young men play for D1B, they are at least will be real student athletes.

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4 hours ago, slu72 said:

There is just no way SLU and most mids can compete with the big State U's.

They didn't compete with them before though. 

And I would say this gives a mid major a better chance to compete. It is a level playing field. 

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1 hour ago, JMM28 said:

They didn't compete with them before though. 

And I would say this gives a mid major a better chance to compete. It is a level playing field. 

Agree with your first sentence.  Three star high school recruits have always been the core of our recruiting success and it will continue to be.  The big problem is the money being thrown at mid-major starters in the transfer portal.  Having to pay big money to keep your starters isn't sustainable.

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2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Agree with your first sentence.  Three star high school recruits have always been the core of our recruiting success and it will continue to be.  The big problem is the money being thrown at mid-major starters in the transfer portal.  Having to pay big money to keep your starters isn't sustainable.

What would you consider big money?

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No f05 … I did not see the reaction to Fred’s deal outside of congrats for getting it.  I am still asking what the deal is/was in terms of cash dollars.  You’ve cleared that up —— he gets ‘comps.’  If this board went out and bought some jars of pickles and salsa because of Fred, how would TMAG know and duly compensate Fred outside of a blanket agreement and a monthly stipend?  
 

The idea that he gets free pickles is ludicrous.  NIL was passed to get kids cash money not dilled cucumbers right?  
 

I appreciate the insight.  On both the Instagram info and now on “trade” deals.  Good stuff.  I disagree wholeheartedly that this is some “”shtick.”  I am truly curious because I believe that once again the rich will only get richer.  I go back to that K State kid getting $200k to go to Miami.  There was no illusion of NIL there —— that was pure PFP —— pay for play.  As someone else noted if tax deductions and payroll come around so too will the IRS.  Can’t wait.

Fred getting money for autograph sessions and basketball camps is great but one thing that pickle comps seem to pale in light of.

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49 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

No f05 … I did not see the reaction to Fred’s deal outside of congrats for getting it.  I am still asking what the deal is/was in terms of cash dollars.  You’ve cleared that up —— he gets ‘comps.’  If this board went out and bought some jars of pickles and salsa because of Fred, how would TMAG know and duly compensate Fred outside of a blanket agreement and a monthly stipend?  
 

The idea that he gets free pickles is ludicrous.  NIL was passed to get kids cash money not dilled cucumbers right?  
 

I appreciate the insight.  On both the Instagram info and now on “trade” deals.  Good stuff.  I disagree wholeheartedly that this is some “”shtick.”  I am truly curious because I believe that once again the rich will only get richer.  I go back to that K State kid getting $200k to go to Miami.  There was no illusion of NIL there —— that was pure PFP —— pay for play.  As someone else noted if tax deductions and payroll come around so too will the IRS.  Can’t wait.

Fred getting money for autograph sessions and basketball camps is great but one thing that pickle comps seem to pale in light of.

05 didn't say Fred got free pickles; he said in a deal he (05) brokered, the pay was gift cards. Completely different situation

Lots of deals will be paid in free product. Lots will be paid in cash. We don't know the terms of Fred's deal but you could probably DM Two Men and a Garden since for some reason you are so interested in this topic. 

Re the bold part of your post... How does any company gage whether an advertising campaign is effective? Look at the time the ad was run and sales before and after... You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be 

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51 minutes ago, crymdg2 said:

I just saw this, too. Weird that it was from a couple hours ago and there's complete silence.

I think a combo of this seemingly coming out of nowhere, Rivera having no social media, and most SLU fans focused on soccer today meant that it caught everyone by surprise / didn’t generate immediate reactions.

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