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2019-20 Season


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23 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

One of the most impressive things from Coach Ford’s radio discussion, was how they track players and the results from the practice scrimmages. He noted that GJ was on the winning team around 80%of the time in the scrimmages. No matter the combination. This is really an aggregated +\- system, and it points to the idea that GJ is the thing that turns the dial. Other teams can’t stop him, and he is not a major liability. We definitely did not hear anything like this about any freshmen in the Ford era. It seems like GJ will be a big part of the future of the Bills, this year and beyond.

I think the shot tracker system they installed make this kind of thing easier to do.

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7 hours ago, Old guy said:

So, who  would you prefer to have Matt Neufeld at 6 11 or Jimmy Bell at 6 11 or 6 10 (?).

I'll let you know in April

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I tend to agree,  but we've seen plenty of billiken hype not become reality in our lifetime.   So forgive me for waiting for reality. 

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A lot of folks keep citing the incredible talent we have as a reason why we will or should compete for the A-10 this year.  Let's compare this year to 2010-2011.  That team's freshmen class had Jordair Jett, Mike McCall, Rob Loe, and Dwayne Evans.  In retrospect, you could call this freshman class one of the most talented freshmen classes we've had.  They were complimented by a quality inside big, Brian Conklin, and a big-man, outside shooter in Sophomore Cody Ellis.  I know that Kwamain was out that year, but otherwise, things on that team seem rather similar to the young talent that we are excited about this year.  This bunch was coached by RickMa.

That group went 12-19.

There are guys like myself who want to be careful about the expectations this year.  Being careful/realistic about the chances this season does not mean that we aren't excited about the guys coming in.  I was very excited about the 2010-2011 freshmen class as well.  My excitement was rewarded two to three years later.  If we had expected that group to contend (whatever that means to whomever is using the term) we would have been doing a great disservice to those freshmen and to Rick.

We all are happy with this class.  Be patient and give them time to develop.

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10 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

A lot of folks keep citing the incredible talent we have as a reason why we will or should compete for the A-10 this year.  Let's compare this year to 2010-2011.  That team's freshmen class had Jordair Jett, Mike McCall, Rob Loe, and Dwayne Evans.  In retrospect, you could call this freshman class one of the most talented freshmen classes we've had.  They were complimented by a quality inside big, Brian Conklin, and a big-man, outside shooter in Sophomore Cody Ellis.  I know that Kwamain was out that year, but otherwise, things on that team seem rather similar to the young talent that we are excited about this year.  This bunch was coached by RickMa.

That group went 12-19.

There are guys like myself who want to be careful about the expectations this year.  Being careful/realistic about the chances this season does not mean that we aren't excited about the guys coming in.  I was very excited about the 2010-2011 freshmen class as well.  My excitement was rewarded two to three years later.  If we had expected that group to contend (whatever that means to whomever is using the term) we would have been doing a great disservice to those freshmen and to Rick.

We all are happy with this class.  Be patient and give them time to develop.

I agree with your call for patience but I do see some differences. If you compare freshmen to freshman you could go either way as to which group is/was better. One distinct difference is the size of Bell. However, The key element of potential superiority of this years team compared to that team is the hard nosed defensive and rebounding trio of Upperclassmen Goodwin, Thatch and French combined with the experience and shooting of our grad transfer and Perkins. That group of 5 more experienced players had no equivalent on the 2010-2011 team. Go BIlls.

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That's fine.  That team went 12-19.  Let's say this group is five wins better.  That would make them 17-14, which I would say is a reasonable expectation.  Saying that they are going to contend in the A-10 is something we can hope for, but not expect.

Also, the experienced guys you are counting on include Perkins, who's only played JUCO, Weaver, who's only success was in the Ohio Valley, and then Goodwin, Thatch, and French.  I don't think its that different.  Conklin and Ellis could shoot.  Goodwin, Thatch, and French have not shown they can consistently.  We're hopeful, but they haven't shown it.  These guys have some skills that Conklin and Ellis didn't have, but the comparison isn't that bad.

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11 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

That's fine.  That team went 12-19.  Let's say this group is five wins better.  That would make them 17-14, which I would say is a reasonable expectation.  Saying that they are going to contend in the A-10 is something we can hope for, but not expect.

Also, the experienced guys you are counting on include Perkins, who's only played JUCO, Weaver, who's only success was in the Ohio Valley, and then Goodwin, Thatch, and French.  I don't think its that different.  Conklin and Ellis could shoot.  Goodwin, Thatch, and French have not shown they can consistently.  We're hopeful, but they haven't shown it.  These guys have some skills that Conklin and Ellis didn't have, but the comparison isn't that bad.

Wasn’t that the year Conklin was hobbled by chronic injuries and Ellis was banged up at the start of the season?  And I don’t think I’d call Conk a “shooter” especially that season.  Finally, you had freshman trying to understand the Majerus demands.  

I think it’s worth a comparison, but also think there are significant differences. 

 

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53 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

A lot of folks keep citing the incredible talent we have as a reason why we will or should compete for the A-10 this year.  Let's compare this year to 2010-2011.  That team's freshmen class had Jordair Jett, Mike McCall, Rob Loe, and Dwayne Evans.  In retrospect, you could call this freshman class one of the most talented freshmen classes we've had.  They were complimented by a quality inside big, Brian Conklin, and a big-man, outside shooter in Sophomore Cody Ellis.  I know that Kwamain was out that year, but otherwise, things on that team seem rather similar to the young talent that we are excited about this year.  This bunch was coached by RickMa.

That group went 12-19.

There are guys like myself who want to be careful about the expectations this year.  Being careful/realistic about the chances this season does not mean that we aren't excited about the guys coming in.  I was very excited about the 2010-2011 freshmen class as well.  My excitement was rewarded two to three years later.  If we had expected that group to contend (whatever that means to whomever is using the term) we would have been doing a great disservice to those freshmen and to Rick.

We all are happy with this class.  Be patient and give them time to develop.

I think a better comparison would be the 08-09 team than the 10-11. Lisch, Liddell, etc. core with the young talent (Kwam, Reed) coming in

Want to bet an O/u on 16.5 wins like you're saying? I'll take the over. 

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1 hour ago, Littlebill said:

I think a better comparison would be the 08-09 team than the 10-11. Lisch, Liddell, etc. core with the young talent (Kwam, Reed) coming in

Want to bet an O/u on 16.5 wins like you're saying? I'll take the over. 

Cgeldmacher's overall point still stands. Even if we're slightly better than the 2010-2011 team, that still doesn't translate to being an A-10 contender, i.e. 21+ wins.

Could Goodwin or Thatch become a consistent jump shooter and Perkins be a big-time scorer his first year out of juco?  Sure. I'm rooting for it to happen. But that's the fan in me talking. 

The dispassionate observer sees 36% of the offense returning, a bunch of newbies that have never played D-1 ball and the only proven shooter being a 5-11 guard who barely cracked double figures for a low mid-major. I think the truth will be somewhere in between.

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1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

A lot of folks keep citing the incredible talent we have as a reason why we will or should compete for the A-10 this year.  Let's compare this year to 2010-2011.  That team's freshmen class had Jordair Jett, Mike McCall, Rob Loe, and Dwayne Evans.  In retrospect, you could call this freshman class one of the most talented freshmen classes we've had.  They were complimented by a quality inside big, Brian Conklin, and a big-man, outside shooter in Sophomore Cody Ellis.  I know that Kwamain was out that year, but otherwise, things on that team seem rather similar to the young talent that we are excited about this year.  This bunch was coached by RickMa.

That group went 12-19.

There are guys like myself who want to be careful about the expectations this year.  Being careful/realistic about the chances this season does not mean that we aren't excited about the guys coming in.  I was very excited about the 2010-2011 freshmen class as well.  My excitement was rewarded two to three years later.  If we had expected that group to contend (whatever that means to whomever is using the term) we would have been doing a great disservice to those freshmen and to Rick.

We all are happy with this class.  Be patient and give them time to develop.

dont let the senior jett, mccall and loe cloud your comparison.    all three were about a million times better by the time they got to be seniors.   we all believed they had a lot of potential but it had to be developed and they had some growing up to do before they became the legends we all likely remember when we hear their names.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

dont let the senior jett, mccall and loe cloud your comparison.    all three were about a million times better by the time they got to be seniors.   we all believed they had a lot of potential but it had to be developed and they had some growing up to do before they became the legends we all likely remember when we hear their names.  

 

 

Entirely correct, in his Freshman year Jett was wild and did all kinds of weird things, of course by the end of his 4th years he was a superb player, but he did not start that way. That particular Freshman class had to play a lot because Kwamain and Reed were sidelined with situation I. By the way I think we should use the label "situation" only for events that involve a title IX or similar (if there are any), not for any case of a player walking out or being terminated for any reason (usually not disclosed). The point is exactly the one that has been made, even extreme talent needs time to develop.

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7 hours ago, Billikenswin said:

I agree with your call for patience but I do see some differences. If you compare freshmen to freshman you could go either way as to which group is/was better. One distinct difference is the size of Bell. However, The key element of potential superiority of this years team compared to that team is the hard nosed defensive and rebounding trio of Upperclassmen Goodwin, Thatch and French combined with the experience and shooting of our grad transfer and Perkins. That group of 5 more experienced players had no equivalent on the 2010-2011 team. Go BIlls.

In 2010-11, we unexpectedly lost 4 guys - including our veteran PG (KM) and our 5 (Willie Reed).   We also turned to our new Freshmen for leadership, rebounding, shooting, scoring, etc.   This turned out to be tough for McCall who struggled trying to run the offense as PG..   Jett showed flashes of talent between all of his mistakes and turnovers.  Rob Loe showed definite skill but physically was not yet ready for D1 interior play.  To me, our best Freshman was Dwayne Evans.  And yes, Cody Ellis was a fine player -- but not that Sophomore year when he played with an injured hand from the firecracker accident and then missed the last 1/3 of the season with mono.   Even Conklin (a fine player) struggled with ankle injuries that year, did not have his best year and got little help from McCall in getting him the ball enough and at the right times.

Just not seeing the comparison with the 2010-11 team.  This year, we will have a full roster and not play short like we did in 2010-11.  And Goodwin and French are proven top A10 players - with better numbers and stats than Conklin alone had done entering the 2010-11 season.   Thatch is coming back with experience as our 6th man and defensive specialist with real promise as a record setting scorer in high school.   Yes, Tay Weaver is only 5'10" and played at E. Kentucky -- but he does have 3 prior years of D1 experience and skill - and to compare him to incoming Freshman straight out of high school does not seem fair.  And 10.2 ppg last year means he will be bad this year as a role player for us?  And yes, Perkins has only JUCO experience, and therefore I am not putting him in the same category as Goodwin and French -- but he was one of the best JUCO players in the country and to put in the same category as an 18/19 year old Freshman right of high school also doe not seem fair.  Anyway, that's 5 guys and we have not even counted Jacobs or Hankton.  A lot of unknowns?  Yes.   But I do see us having 2 to 3 of Goodwin, French, Thatch, Perkins and Weaver on the floor at all times.

Will we lack D1 college experience?  Yes.  Lack A10 experience?   Yes.  Will everyone of our 7 guys carry us to the A10 regular season title?  Probably not.  But unlike 2010-11, I don't see 4 Freshmen starting/playing at the same time.   And I don't see us relying upon our Freshman for all of our leadership, rebounding, shooting and scoring, etc. like we did in  2010-11.  But I do think our Freshman have talent like the Freshmen from the 2010-11 team had.   But unlike the 2010-11 season,  our Freshmen will be asked to play a complementary and contributing role - big difference.  For instance, unlike the 2010-11 season, we won't have to start the season with a Freshman (Yuri) at PG if he is not ready/our best option in that we have Goodwin.  Unlike the 2010-11 season, Bell (unlike Rob) appears to be physically ready to hold his own with the physical play of the A10.  And unlike the 2010-11 season, Jimerson appears to be more ready to have a greater impact his Freshman year than Jett did.   More ready with less need and expectations - no real comparison.

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10 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Clock,

I'm rooting for all the things from our newcomers that you are. I'm just not expecting them. Just out of curiosity, what do you expect our lineup to look like the last 3 minutes of the game?

Goodwin 

jimerson 

thatch 

Perkins 

French on defense

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Interesting speculation.  I can tell you that watching these newbies would make anyone optimistic, possibly towelable: there is a LOT to like already.  And that our returning core players are the defending A10 Champs.  And that the team chemistry seems good, possibly very good.  You never know about the knucklehead stuff but we look to be in solid shape, in terms of a full roster with talent strengths from top to bottom.

Comparing this year to 2010-11 (wow 9 years ago already !?!?!):  I think our upside is much better for immediate success.  I also think they are quite different situations, to say the least.  I agree with some who are tempered -- simply put, I will believe it when I see it, and this will be a work in progress. There were many games last year where we were not good at all, and look where we ended up, despite a very short bench.  Overall, many growing pains but a FUN year to watch and see how far some of these freshmen can take us. 

O yeh and by the way; Perkins is the real deal, immediate starter, major minutes, and I think lots of points and boards as well.  Different player from Bess, but we have our replacement.

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21 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

Interesting speculation.  I can tell you that watching these newbies would make anyone optimistic, possibly towelable: there is a LOT to like already.  And that our returning core players are the defending A10 Champs.  And that the team chemistry seems good, possibly very good.  You never know about the knucklehead stuff but we look to be in solid shape, in terms of a full roster with talent strengths from top to bottom.

Comparing this year to 2010-11 (wow 9 years ago already !?!?!):  I think our upside is much better for immediate success.  I also think they are quite different situations, to say the least.  I agree with some who are tempered -- simply put, I will believe it when I see it, and this will be a work in progress. There were many games last year where we were not good at all, and look where we ended up, despite a very short bench.  Overall, many growing pains but a FUN year to watch and see how far some of these freshmen can take us. 

O yeh and by the way; Perkins is the real deal, immediate starter, major minutes, and I think lots of points and boards as well.  Different player from Bess, but we have our replacement.

What's your outlook for Yuri and Hargrove? 

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46 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

 

O yeh and by the way; Perkins is the real deal, immediate starter, major minutes, and I think lots of points and boards as well.  Different player from Bess, but we have our replacement.

and you know this how?    i hope you are right, but what are you basing it on?   tea leaves?   late night jack daniels infused vision?  ouija board? ran into his mom in the grocery store?   

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59 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

and you know this how?    i hope you are right, but what are you basing it on?   tea leaves?   late night jack daniels infused vision?  ouija board? ran into his mom in the grocery store?   

How about 26 points a game at the JC level....Javon Bess has also stated that he was the best player on the court in scrimmages he's participated in with him....

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im not saying it wont happen.  but i just know doctorB's credibility track record is not all that dependable.   be nice to know how he made such a strong statement.   your statement is stronger than his. 

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

and you know this how?    i hope you are right, but what are you basing it on?   tea leaves?   late night jack daniels infused vision?  ouija board? ran into his mom in the grocery store?   

Now now B'roy. Doc B was the guy who prophesied greatness for Evans. Turns out he was spot on with that call. 

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