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2019-20 Season


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If you remember, Ford talked a lot before last season about how bad they looked and how much work they had to do.  His comments seem different this year.  I still think we have an uphill climb this season to keep up with the top of the A-10, but I like what Ford thinks of his team so far.

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5 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

If you remember, Ford talked a lot before last season about how bad they looked and how much work they had to do.  His comments seem different this year.  I still think we have an uphill climb this season to keep up with the top of the A-10, but I like what Ford thinks of his team so far.

I think most Preseason coach speak comes from expectations.

If expectations are high you knock them down a few pegs.

If expectations are low you build their confidence.

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25 minutes ago, dlarry said:

I think most Preseason coach speak comes from expectations.

If expectations are high you knock them down a few pegs.

If expectations are low you build their confidence.

Good points. But I think going into the season last year he might have been struggling getting everyone on the same page due to egos; Isabell, Santos, and Gordon probably all felt they were going to be the star of the show and forgot the concept of there's no I in team. This year's team is too young to be thinking along those lines. 

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On 8/14/2019 at 1:00 PM, Pistol said:

Great stuff. Love the positivity.

I like that we're looking to do more in transition with this team. This roster is much better suited for that style than last year's team and will be younger and (hopefully) healthier. Let's hope they can actually finish at the rim.

If Thatch has really taken the next step, that's probably the biggest X-factor here. If he's an actual scoring threat he'll be playing 35 MPG with Goodwin.

Bess' endorsement of Perkins seems particularly meaningful, too, since Perkins seems the most naturally slotted as Bess' replacement.

They're probably not going to end up in the top tier of the conference and they'll take some tough losses, but these kids are gonna be fun to watch and things are shaping up nicely for the long term. Can't wait.

 

Yes... great positivity... until your last comment.   I thought Coach Ford may have said that -- but he did not.   Where did that come from?  

Coach Ford actually said this is his best roster - top to bottom - that he has had, said they will be a much better shooting team, said GJ is by far his best shooter that he has had at SLU, said Bell is way ahead/better than he expected, said good thinks about the others as well... and then praised French for taking that necessary step to up his game from last year.  Coach Ford actually said we will be a contender this year -- not fall into the bottom half of the A10,

I get that the A10 will be strong this year (Ford said it will be the best in years and certainly since he has been at SLU),  I get that we have 7 new faces, I get that unreasonable expectations do not help, I get that we will have to gel and learn to play with each other... and I get that we should not blindly get drunk on blue koolaid -- but if we finally have outside shooting, if we finally have a play making PG, if we have the best roster from top to bottom, if we finally will have a full team/depth wise, if our guys will start the year healthy... then why are our new faces a problem for us but a positive for the other A10 teams?   

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We will be a better team this year for a few reasons

No players with history of injuries from the previous year

No team chemistry problems should arise

More experience under Ford

Players can shoot finally

This won’t be a bottom half team. Ford did very well his first year with 20% the talent of this year. 

Last year we had problems arise halfway through but before that we were an at large team without Santos. We shouldn’t have departures like that anymore 

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes... great positivity... until your last comment.   I thought Coach Ford may have said that -- but he did not.   Where did that come from?  

Coach Ford actually said this is his best roster - top to bottom - that he has had, said they will be a much better shooting team, said GJ is by far his best shooter that he has had at SLU, said Bell is way ahead/better than he expected, said good thinks about the others as well... and then praised French for taking that necessary step to up his game from last year.  Coach Ford actually said we will be a contender this year -- not fall into the bottom half of the A10,

I get that the A10 will be strong this year (Ford said it will be the best in years and certainly since he has been at SLU),  I get that we have 7 new faces, I get that unreasonable expectations do not help, I get that we will have to gel and learn to play with each other... and I get that we should not blindly get drunk on blue koolaid -- but if we finally have outside shooting, if we finally have a play making PG, if we have the best roster from top to bottom, if we finally will have a full team/depth wise, if our guys will start the year healthy... then why are our new faces a problem for us but a positive for the other A10 teams?   

In Pistol's defense, "top tier" doesn't necessarily equate to "top half" — which is to say that being outside of the top tier doesn't necessarily mean in the bottom half.

In any given year, there are 3-5 tiers in the conference.  A team can be in the top half and be in the 2nd tier.

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes... great positivity... until your last comment.   I thought Coach Ford may have said that -- but he did not.   Where did that come from?  

Coach Ford actually said this is his best roster - top to bottom - that he has had, said they will be a much better shooting team, said GJ is by far his best shooter that he has had at SLU, said Bell is way ahead/better than he expected, said good thinks about the others as well... and then praised French for taking that necessary step to up his game from last year.  Coach Ford actually said we will be a contender this year -- not fall into the bottom half of the A10,

I get that the A10 will be strong this year (Ford said it will be the best in years and certainly since he has been at SLU),  I get that we have 7 new faces, I get that unreasonable expectations do not help, I get that we will have to gel and learn to play with each other... and I get that we should not blindly get drunk on blue koolaid -- but if we finally have outside shooting, if we finally have a play making PG, if we have the best roster from top to bottom, if we finally will have a full team/depth wise, if our guys will start the year healthy... then why are our new faces a problem for us but a positive for the other A10 teams?   

Coach Ford flat out said in the interview that we will be picked in the middle of the pack because of how strong the league is this year.   He said flat out then when you have seven new faces you are still in building mode.  In other words, experience trumps talent unless there's a wide gap in talent.  We have no such talent advantage this year.  In fact, VCU and Dayton are even more talented than we are.  And Davidson and St. Bonnies have comparable depth.  We would kick Davidson's ass in a high jumping contest, though.

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Maybe we just agree to disagree.  

You may be right.  And I am not predicting us to be A10 Champs or for us to be rated highly before the season. Also not predicting us to be good at the start of the season.  And I am not saying our competition will not be better.

But I am saying the top tier of the A10 folded last year and that we will be far stronger at the end of this year than last year. Looking forward to a great year. 

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2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Coach Ford flat out said in the interview that we will be picked in the middle of the pack because of how strong the league is this year.   He said flat out then when you have seven new faces you are still in building mode.  In other words, experience trumps talent unless there's a wide gap in talent.  We have no such talent advantage this year.  In fact, VCU and Dayton are even more talented than we are.  And Davidson and St. Bonnies have comparable depth.  We would kick Davidson's ass in a high jumping contest, though.

Last year, we were a favorite.  Not this year. Big difference.

Praise opponents and downplay yourself … 7 new faces ... young... building mode... Not as dramatic as Lou Holtz but sure does sound like "coach speak" to keep expectations low to me!

And in the interview, Coach Ford did say this year's team, top to bottom, is the most talented team he has had here.  Isn't that a good thing?  Isn't that something which might help us win few games?  Also, Coach Ford called us a "contender."  Contender for what?  Contender for tier 3 of 5?  

And again, I have not read any new NCAA rule changes for this year, but don't youngsters and new faces get the same amount of points for each made basket as do upperclassmen and veterans?

As to the talent advantage, or lack thereof... I would like to take this up later.   Maybe around the end of OOC season.   Again, I recall those talented teams with their deep benches not being able to stop our 6 player team - the team with Bess limping the last 2 months of the season, Foreman looking like he was nursing a leg/hip injury nearly the whole season -  doing quite well down the stretch and then 4 days in a row. How much better we looked when our shooting guard actually made shots!!

As to Dayton and VCU, have I missed the national articles about them likely to win the NCAA Tournament this year?  Once again, are we talking about UD and VCU or are talking about Duke and Kentucky?  Should the NCAA Tournament Committee just announce now that they each are now given an "at large" bid?  Everyone does remember that Archie Miller and Shaka are no longer their head coaches anymore, right?. Should we even both to play them if they are that good, talented and deep?  And new players?  

And sorry, but the day we return 3 players like French, Goodwin and Thatch and add 7 talented guys like we did - with experience among them from Perkins and Weaver and we fear programs like Davidson and Bonwelding is the day - in basketball - not high jumping - is the day give up supporting our Billikens.   Not there yet.

 

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15 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Last year, we were a favorite.  Not this year. Big difference.

Praise opponents and downplay yourself … 7 new faces ... young... building mode... Not as dramatic as Lou Holtz but sure does sound like "coach speak" to keep expectations low to me!

And in the interview, Coach Ford did say this year's team, top to bottom, is the most talented team he has had here.  Isn't that a good thing?  Isn't that something which might help us win few games?  Also, Coach Ford called us a "contender."  Contender for what?  Contender for tier 3 of 5?  

And again, I have not read any new NCAA rule changes for this year, but don't youngsters and new faces get the same amount of points for each made basket as do upperclassmen and veterans?

As to the talent advantage, or lack thereof... I would like to take this up later.   Maybe around the end of OOC season.   Again, I recall those talented teams with their deep benches not being able to stop our 6 player team - the team with Bess limping the last 2 months of the season, Foreman looking like he was nursing a leg/hip injury nearly the whole season -  doing quite well down the stretch and then 4 days in a row. How much better we looked when our shooting guard actually made shots!!

As to Dayton and VCU, have I missed the national articles about them likely to win the NCAA Tournament this year?  Once again, are we talking about UD and VCU or are talking about Duke and Kentucky?  Should the NCAA Tournament Committee just announce now that they each are now given an "at large" bid?  Everyone does remember that Archie Miller and Shaka are no longer their head coaches anymore, right?. Should we even both to play them if they are that good, talented and deep?  And new players?  

And sorry, but the day we return 3 players like French, Goodwin and Thatch and add 7 talented guys like we did - with experience among them from Perkins and Weaver and we fear programs like Davidson and Bonwelding is the day - in basketball - not high jumping - is the day give up supporting our Billikens.   Not there yet.

 

You make good points. Don’t understand why you need to be an ahole about it. 

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I think it is way too early to be as concerned or worried as you appear to be Clock. Wait to play the first eight games or so, as the Wiz says every year, and then yo may have more solid ground for your concerns. I do think that we have a pretty solid foundation for this season, just give it some time to develop.

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What dlarry said ... coachspeak.  And there wasn't a team in the A10 last year with a "deep bench."  With the exception of maybe VCU.  Davidson was a five man team.  Dayton has four transfers in street clothes.  The Bonnies went five deep.  Rhode Island four.  Duquesne three.  Please give these guys time ----- will Collins earn a starting role?  Can Jomerson shoot at the D1 level?  Can Perkins score.  Have French and Thatch developed perimeter games/  Has Goodwin found a shooting touch from the filed or line?  Are Bell and Diarra better than just projects?  Lots of stuff to watch for in the OOC. 

No history of injury problems?  So what, an injury will be an injury, history or not.  No chemistry problems?  Not yet an dmaybe not but no one knew the Gordon situation until it blew up in our faces.  No Situation iV?  Not yet but stay clean and chaste boys -- the coeds are about to appear on campus.  More experience under Ford?  What does that mean?  Players can shoot?  Player si plural -- who you counting?  What's the proof?  While having the likes of Goodwin, French and Thatch back are huge positives, they all need more work to be the answer we need them to be.  The rest are unknowns, including Hankton and Jacobs.  If you are not watching games in November and December with a critical eye focused on demonstrated development, you're watching for the wrong thing. 

As the schedule assembles, I am liking it more and more but it will be a challenging schedule given our many unknowns.  A great year to watch and see what happens.  I'm excited.

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15 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

We will be a better team this year for a few reasons

No players with history of injuries from the previous year  - Diarra would disagree

No team chemistry problems should arise - Based on what?  You have no idea, nor does anyone else.

More experience under Ford - 5 returnee's Yes.  7 new players that have no experience with Ford.

Players can shoot finally - We had the "best shooter ever" in Henriquez.  We had Johnson, a 40% three point shooter.  We had Wiley, who had uncanny range.  Every year we have shooters.  Sometimes they don't deliver.

This won’t be a bottom half team. Ford did very well his first year with 20% the talent of this year. 

Last year we had problems arise halfway through but before that we were an at large team without Santos. We shouldn’t have departures like that anymore - With or without Santos and Gordon we would not have made last year's team an At Large.  Our NET ended up at 107.  You needed to be low 70's or better to be At Large.  When Gordon bolted we had already played five of the eight regular season opponents who ended up higher on the NET than us.

 

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

What dlarry said ... coachspeak.  And there wasn't a team in the A10 last year with a "deep bench."  With the exception of maybe VCU.  Davidson was a five man team.  Dayton has four transfers in street clothes.  The Bonnies went five deep.  Rhode Island four.  Duquesne three.  Please give these guys time ----- will Collins earn a starting role?  Can Jomerson shoot at the D1 level?  Can Perkins score.  Have French and Thatch developed perimeter games/  Has Goodwin found a shooting touch from the filed or line?  Are Bell and Diarra better than just projects?  Lots of stuff to watch for in the OOC. 

No history of injury problems?  So what, an injury will be an injury, history or not.  No chemistry problems?  Not yet an dmaybe not but no one knew the Gordon situation until it blew up in our faces.  No Situation iV?  Not yet but stay clean and chaste boys -- the coeds are about to appear on campus.  More experience under Ford?  What does that mean?  Players can shoot?  Player si plural -- who you counting?  What's the proof?  While having the likes of Goodwin, French and Thatch back are huge positives, they all need more work to be the answer we need them to be.  The rest are unknowns, including Hankton and Jacobs.  If you are not watching games in November and December with a critical eye focused on demonstrated development, you're watching for the wrong thing. 

As the schedule assembles, I am liking it more and more but it will be a challenging schedule given our many unknowns.  A great year to watch and see what happens.  I'm excited.

Agree but have a question: what was situation II? Did we have a situation III?

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2 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Agree but have a question: what was situation II? Did we have a situation III?

really?

 

s2.0 was cheerleadergate made worst by krafty, stormy, pesty and our wonderful BoT

s3.0 would be whatever the hell happened with gordon.   

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7 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

really?

 

s2.0 was cheerleadergate made worst by krafty, stormy, pesty and our wonderful BoT

s3.0 would be whatever the hell happened with gordon.   

I think you're missing s2.5: whatever the hell happened with Santos.  Although with that one, it really seemed like everyone (team & coaching staff) was okay with him getting axed / leaving and it sure didn't generate as much attention, so I don't know if it counts as much.

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Just now, RUBillsFan said:

I think you're missing s2.5: whatever the hell happened with Santos.  Although with that one, it really seemed like everyone (team & coaching staff) was okay with him getting axed / leaving and it sure didn't generate as much attention, so I don't know if it counts as much.

good add  thx

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4 hours ago, RiseAndGrind said:

We made the tournament last year and we have an awesome group of players coming in this year. People should STFU and be nice to each other. It’s a good time to be a Billiken.

Exactly. All on the same team Hoosier. Also you picked poor examples. 

Diarra is not a top 9 player on the team this year so doesn’t fit the “team” when I talk about potential to me. Johnson could shoot but nothing else. AH never saw the floor. Wiley was injured always. Santos and Gordon on the floor could have made us close to undefeated in the A10 and beat a few more teams last year 

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5 hours ago, Taj79 said:

What dlarry said ... coachspeak.  And there wasn't a team in the A10 last year with a "deep bench."  With the exception of maybe VCU.  Davidson was a five man team.  Dayton has four transfers in street clothes.  The Bonnies went five deep.  Rhode Island four.  Duquesne three.  Please give these guys time ----- will Collins earn a starting role?  Can Jomerson shoot at the D1 level?  Can Perkins score.  Have French and Thatch developed perimeter games/  Has Goodwin found a shooting touch from the filed or line?  Are Bell and Diarra better than just projects?  Lots of stuff to watch for in the OOC. 

No history of injury problems?  So what, an injury will be an injury, history or not.  No chemistry problems?  Not yet an dmaybe not but no one knew the Gordon situation until it blew up in our faces.  No Situation iV?  Not yet but stay clean and chaste boys -- the coeds are about to appear on campus.  More experience under Ford?  What does that mean?  Players can shoot?  Player si plural -- who you counting?  What's the proof?  While having the likes of Goodwin, French and Thatch back are huge positives, they all need more work to be the answer we need them to be.  The rest are unknowns, including Hankton and Jacobs.  If you are not watching games in November and December with a critical eye focused on demonstrated development, you're watching for the wrong thing. 

As the schedule assembles, I am liking it more and more but it will be a challenging schedule given our many unknowns.  A great year to watch and see what happens.  I'm excited.

Yes.   You are correct in that any player, even with prior health, can become injured.  Unexpected injuries such as with Bess, Hankton and Jacobs.   But I believe the suggestions/point is not all injuries are unexpected - but rather maybe even expected and that a season of health would be unexpected - such as Wiley, Welmer and probably Foreman whose body appears to have sustained alot over the years.   To me, Foreman deservedly was/should have been praised for the effort he gave all of last year even though I doubt he was ever 100%

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15 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

Exactly. All on the same team Hoosier. Also you picked poor examples. 

Diarra is not a top 9 player on the team this year so doesn’t fit the “team” when I talk about potential to me. Johnson could shoot but nothing else. AH never saw the floor. Wiley was injured always. Santos and Gordon on the floor could have made us close to undefeated in the A10 and beat a few more teams last year 

Of course we are on the same team.  There are only a handful of posters who wish the Billikens ill will- Tilky, the Mizzou honk, and the KU fanatic. It's off season. Talking about the team beats discussing whether or not Bungee is a Fortune 500 company.

You are already knocking Diarra off of the rotation?  Don't you think it is a little premature?  He is on the roster, and he has been injured last year.  If you want to limit your comments to your top 9, do so in the original post.  I saw no qualification on your comment.

Thanks for agreeing that we have had shooters in the past.  Until this year's team gets on the floor and have games under their belt, we only have HS and JUCO stats for the newcomers.  We know that it is unusual for a D1 player to duplicate his best HS numbers his first year in college  Thatch, Hankton, Jacobs, Gudmundsson (and Wiley) all had glowing shooting stats from earlier years, and didn't come close to replicating them last season.  Johnson was a shooter, and had a higher rebounder and shot block numbers than Foreman.  I don't consider him a one trick pony.

Gordon certainly would have helped had he stuck around AND had he and French figured out how to play together.  Santos was a total unknown, one who was a roll player on a bad 7-23  South Florida team. All you can do is speculate on how he would have developed here.   

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