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2019-20 Season


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You are right, Roy, but Bess had the tools to turn into a dominant stopper. Goodwin is shy of Bess on d, couldn’t turn the corner and shoulder ahead of guards like Isabell(and doesn’t yet seal at the basket to finish on drives). Goodwin’s most singular talents at this point are pouching offensive rebounds on the weak side, and disrupting passing lanes.

He may have improved in these areas owned by Bess and Isabell last season, but it can be difficult to evolve strengths, and last season’s start proved that forcing square pegs into round holes is detrimental to team development.

Here is hoping Collins/Tay/Jacobs can eat a lions share of PG minutes, learning to feed the wing shooters, facilitating the cutters with pinpoint passes, and breaking down the other guards to feed French/Bell on the block.

it will be a long season without two shooters on the floor at all timesto prevent double teams, and/or zones. Spoons teams had Claggett, Highmark, Waldman and Turner dropping bombs, and Donns capable in the paint.; made it easy.

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

Fyi when bess was a sophomore he was not even close to being as good as what Jordan Goodwin was as a sophomore

Well, Bess was playing on a talent rich Michigan State roster and that may of taken playing time from him ..... apples to oranges comparison.  Just an opinion.

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9 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

You are right, Roy, but Bess had the tools to turn into a dominant stopper. Goodwin is shy of Bess on d, couldn’t turn the corner and shoulder ahead of guards like Isabell(and doesn’t yet seal at the basket to finish on drives). Goodwin’s most singular talents at this point are pouching offensive rebounds on the weak side, and disrupting passing lanes.

He may have improved in these areas owned by Bess and Isabell last season, but it can be difficult to evolve strengths, and last season’s start proved that forcing square pegs into round holes is detrimental to team development.

Here is hoping Collins/Tay/Jacobs can eat a lions share of PG minutes, learning to feed the wing shooters, facilitating the cutters with pinpoint passes, and breaking down the other guards to feed French/Bell on the block.

it will be a long season without two shooters on the floor at all timesto prevent double teams, and/or zones. Spoons teams had Claggett, Highmark, Waldman and Turner dropping bombs, and Donns capable in the paint.; made it easy.

I don't believe that Coach Ford is ready to make that move yet but I'd love to see it.  Start Goodwin at the 3 and play backup minutes at the 1.  Start Perkins at the 4 and play backup minutes at the 3.

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14 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I don't believe that Coach Ford is ready to make that move yet but I'd love to see it.  Start Goodwin at the 3 and play backup minutes at the 1.  Start Perkins at the 4 and play backup minutes at the 3.

How do we know what Ford wants to do? I know you are making projections on what you think the players abilities are but none of us including Ford knows how his lineup will shake out. Positions and playing time are to be won. Let the competition begin. 

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3 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

You are right, Roy, but Bess had the tools to turn into a dominant stopper. Goodwin is shy of Bess on d, couldn’t turn the corner and shoulder ahead of guards like Isabell(and doesn’t yet seal at the basket to finish on drives). Goodwin’s most singular talents at this point are pouching offensive rebounds on the weak side, and disrupting passing lanes.

He may have improved in these areas owned by Bess and Isabell last season, but it can be difficult to evolve strengths, and last season’s start proved that forcing square pegs into round holes is detrimental to team development.

Here is hoping Collins/Tay/Jacobs can eat a lions share of PG minutes, learning to feed the wing shooters, facilitating the cutters with pinpoint passes, and breaking down the other guards to feed French/Bell on the block.

it will be a long season without two shooters on the floor at all timesto prevent double teams, and/or zones. Spoons teams had Claggett, Highmark, Waldman and Turner dropping bombs, and Donns capable in the paint.; made it easy.

Are you comparing the Sophomore play of Jordan with the Senior play of Bess and Isabell?   If so, unfair comparison.

I don't recall Isabell as a Sophomore but I remember Isabell as a Mizzou freshman and wasn't all that impressed, have a hard time believing Isabell was much better his Soph year as we was his Freshman year and then, of course, we all saw his Senior year --- and the first 3/4 of last year was not all that great either.   As to Bess, I also don't recall him from his days at Michigan State but I will say that he was much better his Senior year than his Junior year.

Also not following your comparison as to physical, basketball skills in that Isabell and Bess are completely different types of players, played different position, measured far differently in height and weight - and yet both found ways to score and lead our team.  And Goodwin is different as well. 

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I think that our success this year relies heavily on Javonte Perkins. To me, he is the player most likely to emerge as the viable 3rd option behind Goodwin and French. JuCo players have a diverse set of outcomes, especially those who play Javonte's position (G/F), but there does seem to be a loosely positive trendline for those who go to non-Power 6 conferences. 

I think we are forgetting how truly atrocious we were on offense last year. We lost 3 of our top 5 contributors and more than 60% of our scoring. Furthermore, our already anemic offense lost its best 2 playmakers and 2 of our top 3 ball-handlers. I hate to be Debbie Downer here, but I will be ecstatic if we win 15 games and downright over the moon if we can win 18-20. 

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1 hour ago, Bizziken said:

I think that our success this year relies heavily on Javonte Perkins. To me, he is the player most likely to emerge as the viable 3rd option behind Goodwin and French. JuCo players have a diverse set of outcomes, especially those who play Javonte's position (G/F), but there does seem to be a loosely positive trendline for those who go to non-Power 6 conferences. 

I think we are forgetting how truly atrocious we were on offense last year. We lost 3 of our top 5 contributors and more than 60% of our scoring. Furthermore, our already anemic offense lost our best 2 playmakers and 2 of our top 3 ball-handlers. I hate to be Debbie Downer here, but I will be ecstatic if we win 15 games and downright over the moon if we can win 18-20. 

I think the teams success relies on what we get out of Hankton and Jacobs too.  I expect both of them to be solid contributors for the team to have success.  I figure both of these young players worked hard during the offseason and want to play and prove they belong.  These two stayed with SLU and coach Ford recruited them to play.  I hope Hankton is determined to be starting the 3 position and Jacobs is determined to be the starting point guard.  If it works out that way then we have a solid bench where it can be used to match up with most teams.

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55 minutes ago, CBFan said:

I think the teams success relies on what we get out of Hankton and Jacobs too.  I expect both of them to be solid contributors for the team to have success.  I figure both of these young players worked hard during the offseason and want to play and prove they belong.  These two stayed with SLU and coach Ford recruited them to play.  I hope Hankton is determined to be starting the 3 position and Jacobs is determined to be the starting point guard.  If it works out that way then we have a solid bench where it can be used to match up with most teams.

That is certainly a solid point. And you're not wrong at all- we need a lot of contributors to be successful. But what, other than wishful thinking, have you seen from either Jacobs or Hankton that implies they are/could be playmakers (create their own scoring opportunities) or be that crucial 3rd option? I just dont see that in their skillsets. Not to say they won't contribute, it's just, to me, it's not very likely that either develop into our 3rd go-to option on offense. 

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If Ford posted a help wanted ad for this year's team the Tag Line would be: SCORERS NEEDED! 

Our 5 returnees bring a ppg average of around 25 ppg. Now, in two years of play neither JGood or French have shown they can score at the level or various ways of a Bess or Isabell. That's not to say that can't be improved upon, but since both players score the majority of their points on the inside, opponents will find us pretty easy to defend, i.e. jam up the inside, until we find some outside shooters to loosen things up, or go to the other option of getting points off fast breaks. 

Point being it's going to be interesting to see which way Ford try's to go with this group. Half court offense or take the run and gun approach. 

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37 minutes ago, Bizziken said:

That is certainly a solid point. And you're not wrong at all- we need a lot of contributors to be successful. But what, other than wishful thinking, have you seen from either Jacobs or Hankton that implies they are/could be playmakers (create their own scoring opportunities) or be that crucial 3rd option? I just dont see that in their skillsets. Not to say they won't contribute, it's just, to me, it's not very likely that either develop into our 3rd go-to option on offense. 

Good question and the answer from last season was nothing from Jacobs and a few things from Hankton.

It is more than wishful thinking it is trust in our coach that he brings in players that will contribute.

I believe most of us felt Jacobs last season would be a much better player than he turned out to be.

Hankton and Jacobs have a year of experience and both should be physically stronger.  They both have leaders like French, Goodwin and Thatch that accomplished a lot that have showed them what it takes to be successful.

If neither contribute it will be a waste of scholarships.

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1 hour ago, CBFan said:

I think the teams success relies on what we get out of Hankton and Jacobs too.  I expect both of them to be solid contributors for the team to have success.  I figure both of these young players worked hard during the offseason and want to play and prove they belong.  These two stayed with SLU and coach Ford recruited them to play.  I hope Hankton is determined to be starting the 3 position and Jacobs is determined to be the starting point guard.  If it works out that way then we have a solid bench where it can be used to match up with most teams.

i think it is fun to read how each of us see the "keys to success".   all could be right.   for example, i am not even considering what CBFan is looking at.   i feel the key is how good and ready are the freshman.   But CBFan if right could have the same success as if Jimerson, collins and hargrove are season ready to fulfill their vast potential.   

Someone else might say the two new bigs are key and would allow french to become a traditional pf if either or both of them are ready to contribute as true producing centers.  

last someone else might say it is up to french and goodwin to completely take over the team and become dominant players.  

no answer is wrong.  the real only hope is one of the above is right.

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2 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i think it is fun to read how each of us see the "keys to success".   all could be right.   for example, i am not even considering what CBFan is looking at.   i feel the key is how good and ready are the freshman.   But CBFan if right could have the same success as if Jimerson, collins and hargrove are season ready to fulfill their vast potential.   

Someone else might say the two new bigs are key and would allow french to become a traditional pf if either or both of them are ready to contribute as true producing centers.  

last someone else might say it is up to french and goodwin to completely take over the team and become dominant players.  

no answer is wrong.  the real only hope is one of the above is right.

I agree with you Roy on Hargrove, Jimerson, and Collins. I feel all 3 are special and there is no doubt in my mind that all 3 will have successful freshmen seasons.

I think Hargrove will be the best freshman in the A10.

 

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Roy you are entirely correct, what the board members are engaging in is simply an act of wild speculation. The only one who really knows what Ford plans to do is Ford, and I assume he is  yet to decide how the season will actually be played. Ultimately it all depends on how the recruits, all of them, perform in practice, their strengths and weaknesses combined with their potential, and how the mix works best for Ford. If Ford is still checking, testing, and developing his thinking, there is no way that any one of us can predict at this time how the season will be played next year. There is always a mix of truth in what people see in the current batch of players which is mixed into their wild projections, anyone can be right in what they predict about a player, however most will, at best, only be partially correct in their estimates. Remember last year it was the same kind of speculation, with a  heavy emphasis on Gordon, which did not last past a semester with us.

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This is a rebuilding year and the answer can be:  all the above.  Sounds like we will have competition at every position with guys who appear to have the skills to succeed (which is good) but also we remain unsure even what position our 2 returning Juniors (who will play alot Goodwin and French) will play (which is unusual).

Starting to agree the key to our season is likely the coaching of Travis Ford. 

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24 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

This is a rebuilding year and the answer can be:  all the above.  Sounds like we will have competition at every position with guys who appear to have the skills to succeed (which is good) but also we remain unsure even what position our 2 returning Juniors (who will play alot Goodwin and French) will play (which is unusual).

Starting to agree the key to our season is likely the coaching of Travis Ford. 

hope that isnt true.    while i truly believe ford is hands down the best recruiter in slu history, and i love his passion and ability to get the players to play hard and overachieve, beyond that, ford imo hasnt set the world on fire as a practice coach or a game coach.   

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18 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

hope that isnt true.    while i truly believe ford is hands down the best recruiter in slu history, and i love his passion and ability to get the players to play hard and overachieve, beyond that, ford imo hasnt set the world on fire as a practice coach or a game coach.   

Ford better step it up if he wants to be considered a good recruiter still. 2020 is make or break. In one year he got some solid recruits, but the best of stl are leaving still and mizzou still makes top 5 finals of our local 4* and 5* recruits 

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10 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

hope that isnt true.    while i truly believe ford is hands down the best recruiter in slu history, and i love his passion and ability to get the players to play hard and overachieve, beyond that, ford imo hasnt set the world on fire as a practice coach or a game coach.   

Ford did something right to change Isabell’s game.  Had to be coaching as Isabell’s play sure changed for the better from the beginning of the year.  Coaching also seemed to help Bess become a better player from his arrival at SLU.   And Fords teams each year have never quit, played hard and improved from the start of each year - and have had success despite losing our 3 guys from S2, Goodwin for 1/2 that year, Santos and Gordon. Ford is not the game coach that Spoon and RM were but you are also ignoring the positives of CF.

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This is the eternal argument as to which is most important recruiting or coaching. Ford is an excellent recruiter and gets good talent in. He is a good coach who is capable of keeping teams in the fight despite all kinds of bad events happening. He is not RM. I think are just fine with Ford.

 

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23 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Ford did something right to change Isabell’s game.  Had to be coaching as Isabell’s play sure changed for the better from the beginning of the year.  Coaching also seemed to help Bess become a better player from his arrival at SLU.   And Fords teams each year have never quit, played hard and improved from the start of each year - and have had success despite losing our 3 guys from S2, Goodwin for 1/2 that year, Santos and Gordon. Ford is not the game coach that Spoon and RM were but you are also ignoring the positives of CF.

Ford has done an ouststanding job of coaching,  he made a team that relied heavily on a walk on and made them competitive, last year he coached a team to a championship after losing key players and multiple injuries. not sure why anyone thinks he cant coach

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1 minute ago, Old guy said:

This is the eternal argument as to which is most important recruiting or coaching. Ford is an excellent recruiter and gets good talent in. He is a good coach who is capable of keeping teams in the fight despite all kinds of bad events happening. He is not RM. I think are just fine with Ford.

 

very few are a rm. ford is just fine

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12 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

very few are a rm. ford is just fine

I don't believe there are any other RM's. If Rick had Coach K's roster every year for the last 30 he'd have 22 National Championships with 8 additional final 4's. Every NCAA basketball award would be named the Majerus Award.  

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2 hours ago, CBFan said:

Good question and the answer from last season was nothing from Jacobs and a few things from Hankton.

It is more than wishful thinking it is trust in our coach that he brings in players that will contribute.

I believe most of us felt Jacobs last season would be a much better player than he turned out to be.

Hankton and Jacobs have a year of experience and both should be physically stronger.  They both have leaders like French, Goodwin and Thatch that accomplished a lot that have showed them what it takes to be successful.

If neither contribute it will be a waste of scholarships.

Players that rarely play as freshmen are always in danger of losing their spot to a new recruit the following year.  For example, if Weaver takes away Jacobs' opportunity, that's just the way it goes.  "Wasted scholarships" are built into the system.

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