247 Sports ranks SLU 19 class #72

[slu72]

Usual suspects grab to spots: UK, AZ (so much for rules), Duke et al. A10:  UMass top ranked, URI next, then us. Sorry, don't know how to link site. I'm old. 

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

I hate these class rankings. Outside the top 20 it ends up being useless. No way umass beats us 

[3star_recruit]

247 doesn't do a great job of tracking junior college prospects, transfers or prep school players.  So their recruiting class rankings often ignore those players.  According to 247, we only have 3 commits.

[wgstl]

11 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

247 doesn't do a great job of tracking junior college prospects, transfers or prep school players. 

do they even do it at all? I thought they stayed away from the completely.   This class is weird from a recruiting stand point(although not weird to us).  so many players with so much potential in this class, but all have gotten dinged for something(size, injury, transferring)

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

Usual suspects grab to spots: UK, AZ (so much for rules), Duke et al. A10:  UMass top ranked, URI next, then us. Sorry, don't know how to link site. I'm old. 

Rivals says #56, but they only have 4 of the 7 recruits accounted for.  None of these class rankings add points to the scoreboard.

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2019/all-teams/basketball

and here is your link to the 247 list.

https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings/?ViewPath=~%2FViews%2FSkyNet%2FInstitutionRanking%2F_SimpleSetForSeason.ascx&Page=2

[wgstl]

6 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Rivals says #56, but they only have 4 of the 7 recruits accounted for.  None of these class rankings add points to the scoreboard.

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2019/all-teams/basketball

Whats odd to me is 247 says umass average is less than ours.  Looks like if 247 recognized one more of our missing players we would probably move up roughly 20 spots

[slu72]

5 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Rivals says #56, but they only have 4 of the 7 recruits accounted for.  None of these class rankings add points to the scoreboard.

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2019/all-teams/basketball

and here is your link to the 247 list.

https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings/?ViewPath=~%2FViews%2FSkyNet%2FInstitutionRanking%2F_SimpleSetForSeason.ascx&Page=2

Tx for linking. 

[slu72]

Seriously, save for the elite these really mean little. And last time I checked not one of these top 5 classes have won a National Championship in a while. I'll take a team of experienced Upper classmen every day of the week. 

[wgstl]

I just did the 247 class calculator, when adding Jimmy Bell we as a team move up to 42.21, which ranks 62nd.  Why they haven't added Bell yet is beyond me. 

[Pistol]

Incoming class rankings by team are less meaningful than ever before for the reasons @3star_recruit outlines above. Incoming recruiting classes are now usually spread out over multiple graduating years, pieced together from HS, prep school, juco, and other NCAA schools. These rankings are really only for HS/prep players, so they show who has the best group of incoming freshmen, but it's only one piece of the puzzle anymore. And HS rankings are flawed to begin with.

[billiken_roy]

2 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

I hate these class rankings. Outside the top 20 it ends up being useless. No way umass beats us 

i cant wait for your player by player comparison of the billikens vs umass.   you must really follow recruiting to know the umass recruits so well.

[3star_recruit]

26 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Incoming class rankings by team are less meaningful than ever before for the reasons @3star_recruit outlines above. Incoming recruiting classes are now usually spread out over multiple graduating years, pieced together from HS, prep school, juco, and other NCAA schools. These rankings are really only for HS/prep players, so they show who has the best group of incoming freshmen, but it's only one piece of the puzzle anymore. And HS rankings are flawed to begin with.

Just to give one example: if a kid has a final 10 games like Yuri Collins had, it doesn't register on national services.  They give the most weight to what a player does the summer after his junior season.  The national guys get to see a bunch of D-1 players at the same time.  They simply don't have enough bodies to track what's going on with hundreds of D-1 players during the course of a high school season.

[CBFan]

46 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i cant wait for your player by player comparison of the billikens vs umass.   you must really follow recruiting to know the umass recruits so well.

Respectfully, I could wait forever for that comparison.

[billiken_roy]

5 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Respectfully, I could wait forever for that comparison.

guess i should have used blue font

[HoosierPal]

2 hours ago, slu72 said:

Seriously, save for the elite these really mean little. And last time I checked not one of these top 5 classes have won a National Championship in a while. I'll take a team of experienced Upper classmen every day of the week. 

I didn't follow up on this comment to determine if it was true or not, but a commentator said that it was likely that no Top 100 2019 recruits would play in the Final Four.  So there you go.

[slu72]

49 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Just to give one example: if a kid has a final 10 games like Yuri Collins had, it doesn't register on national services.  They give the most weight to what a player does the summer after his junior season.  The national guys get to see a bunch of D-1 players at the same time.  They simply don't have enough bodies to track what's going on with hundreds of D-1 players during the course of a high school season.

You can add Jimerson and Hargrove as well. 

[Pistol]

3 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

I hate these class rankings. Outside the top 20 it ends up being useless. No way umass beats us 

 

2 hours ago, wgstl said:

Whats odd to me is 247 says umass average is less than ours.  Looks like if 247 recognized one more of our missing players we would probably move up roughly 20 spots

UMass has a 7-man class coming in after McCall cleaned house. As of this list, 4 of 6 were rated by 247 and the 7th, Jalen Thomas, isn't being shown yet. He will be their 5th player with a 247 rating, so they'll probably go up. One of their players, Tre Mitchell, is a top 100 player on the 247 rankings. UMass has no incoming players that aren't freshmen.

SLU has Collins, Hargrove, and Jimerson listed. Collins has the highest rating, 212. Jimmy Bell is not yet shown but is rated 450th by 247 - 4 spots below Jimerson - but is not shown yet. Diarra is not ranked by 247. Perkins and Lewis don't factor in here at all.

So purely by their math, UMass has the higher-ranked class. It makes sense when you break it out. It's not the full story.

Edit: I just noticed 247Sports still says our head coach is Jim Crews. I knew they still used the old Billiken, but man, they're not paying minding the store over there at all.

[Quality Is Job 1]

According to 24/7 Sports, SLU's coach is Jim Crews.  That suggests you must take their product (rankings) with enough salt to be in danger of contracting hypertension.

[Old guy]

Why worry about what these people write when you know they are a) not following developments (this applies to non blue blood schools), b) unaware of major coaching changes that happened years ago. If the validity of an analysis of any kind is related to the validity of the data used in the analysis, their SLU analysis is plainly not valid. Why read it?

[CBFan]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

guess i should have used blue font

I knew you were kidding just having some fun with GloryTRavsClock.  I could resist as I impatiently wait for news of a GT announcement for the last scholarship.  Have a great day Roy.

[3star_recruit]

22 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Why worry about what these people write when you know they are a) not following developments (this applies to non blue blood schools), b) unaware of major coaching changes that happened years ago. If the validity of an analysis of any kind is related to the validity of the data used in the analysis, their SLU analysis is plainly not valid. Why read it?

From a national perspective, these services are the best information summaries we have.  Getting the whole story every for every player on every team just isn't going to happen.  None of these services generate enough revenue through subscriptions to pay for 100% coverage.

[WVBilliken]

Well, and coverage after Summer AAU is just about zip except probably for the few loaded national hs squads.  Hargrove switched AAU squads and played limited minutes last Summer.  Collins was recoverying from surgery and before that was playing limited due to the injury.

Then they busted out after AAU, and Collins after his recovery.  Both would seem to be under-ranked.  And Hargrove, has even been given a 4 star ranking by some services after wowing his senior year.

So SLU's class, I 'd say it is top 50 considering the above plus Jimerson's breakout season; and the 2 bigs are not even factored in on 247.  Perkins and Lewis, gravy on top of all that.  Very good class.

 

[slu72]

I think someone posted after the Ill St championship game the difference between Hargrove and Liddell was minimal at best. 

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

From a national perspective, these services are the best information summaries we have.  Getting the whole story every for every player on every team just isn't going to happen.  None of these services generate enough revenue through subscriptions to pay for 100% coverage.

This is interesting. If what you call "the best information summaries we have" is trash like this then all we have is fabrication based upon outdated information. Better nothing than this trash. Yes, indeed, Crews is still HC at SLU! SLU only has new 3 recruits for next season! These are gross errors. Conclusions based upon this kind of "information", or lack thereof, are just what? fairy tales?

[Pistol]

7 minutes ago, Old guy said:

This is interesting. If what you call "the best information summaries we have" is trash like this then all we have is fabrication based upon outdated information. Better nothing than this trash. Yes, indeed, Crews is still HC at SLU! SLU only has new 3 recruits for next season! These are gross errors. Conclusions based upon this kind of "information", or lack thereof, are just what? fairy tales?

These services are focused on player evaluations. There's no one paying attention to individual school pages unless the school is in their subscription network - SLU isn't.

It's just one of many tools out there. It's why I don't rely on any one source when I'm compiling research on players. I use as many sources as I can get.