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Clocktoweraccords2004

Is there a case against ESPN?

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We can all agree that Zion Williamson is a freak athlete and deserves the press he gets. ESPN’s coverage of him is understandable. 

However, with Duke’s reloaded class similar to this previous year, is there a case to make that ESPN’s nonstop coverage of DUKE basketball and the corresponding tv show that DUKE got out of it. 

Every year during the draft players from all across the country get drafted, but the names that stick out the most (imo) are the DUKE players. 

Players like Ja Morant who are competing for the #1 draft pick with Zion for the Phoenix Suns have gotten a fraction of the coverage he has. 

My question is I wonder if there could be a case made against ESPN for working behind the scenes with DUKE to promote the program so much in order to influence recruiting? 

I am not saying they are guilty but is there even a chance that they are working together? 

Players leave their hometown team for DUKE because of the National attention that is honestly not always deserved. (Almost lost in the second round) 

how can other schools that aren’t blue bloods compete for these recruits when the national spotlight is unfairly leveraged against them 

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20 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

We can all agree that Zion Williamson is a freak athlete and deserves the press he gets. ESPN’s coverage of him is understandable. 

However, with Duke’s reloaded class similar to this previous year, is there a case to make that ESPN’s nonstop coverage of DUKE basketball and the corresponding tv show that DUKE got out of it. 

Every year during the draft players from all across the country get drafted, but the names that stick out the most (imo) are the DUKE players. 

Players like Ja Morant who are competing for the #1 draft pick with Zion for the Phoenix Suns have gotten a fraction of the coverage he has. 

My question is I wonder if there could be a case made against ESPN for working behind the scenes with DUKE to promote the program so much in order to influence recruiting? 

I am not saying they are guilty but is there even a chance that they are working together? 

Players leave their hometown team for DUKE because of the National attention that is honestly not always deserved. (Almost lost in the second round) 

how can other schools that aren’t blue bloods compete for these recruits when the national spotlight is unfairly leveraged against them 

I'm not a lawyer, but I would presume there's likely "no direct evidence of collusion." 

That being said, there's definitely some degree of a mutualistic relationship between Duke and ESPN, where both parties experience significant monetary and media benefits. It sucks but that's just the way it is. 

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ESPN is based in CT, and has a limited number of broadcasting crews that travel around the country. Duke and NC happen to be in a conference that they cover all the time, and their broadcasters know all about him.

Back in the day, ESPN made the Big East. 

Based on geography, you can’t ***** too much. The PD had many inches of print coverage on Zion, and virtually none. On Ja. And St. Louis is way closer than Bristol, CT, and the Bills play Murray State in periodic contract home/home games.

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There is no competition between Zion and Ja for number 1. I don't care how much coverage Murray State got this year, Zion is a potential generational talent. 

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Well, we all know Dick Vitale sucks Duke d!ck and had a robust association with Jim Valvano (NC State).  Jay Bilas is a Duke grad.  Jay Williams went to Duke.  Seth Greenberg last coached in the ACC.  Other ACCers have included Kara Lawson, Len Elmore, Hubert Davis and a host of others on ESPN.  ACC roots also exist with Mike Gminski, Shane Battier, Alaa Abdelnaby, Kenny Anderson, Brad Daugherty, Brendan Williams and so on down the line.  Just seems to be the way it is.

As noted previously, I am sick and tired of Zion, send him away.  And you are right, here comes the next "top recruiting class" and it is again falling into Duke's lap.  I don't know why --- this is like Duke's fifth top recruiting class in the last six years and in that time, they've won one title.  They do have three since the turn of the century and that's just Duke, a blueblood if there ever was one.  I guess winning it all isn't really the key ---- likely being on TV, getting talked about by the pro-ACC talking heads every night, having that done in prime time on the East Coast, speculating about your upcoming draft position, eyes squarely focused on the next level and the big dollar contract scomign to those poor moms and dads who support and carry the entourage going forward.  .  Whatever the draw is its not about winning it all, getting a super degree from a great place or anything I value.  Must be a mentality I am not familiar with.

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Let's see how Zion does against the Joel Embiid's, Blake Griffin's, and Kwahi :Leonard's of the world -- night, after night, after night.  Maybe he'll surprise me. 

On th eflip side, at least another ro fmy least favorite players --- Russell Westbrook -- is dead and gone for another 0off season.  He's 31, he'll never win.

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3 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

 I guess winning it all isn't really the key ---- likely being on TV, getting talked about by the pro-ACC talking heads every night, having that done in prime time on the East Coast, speculating about your upcoming draft position, eyes squarely focused on the next level and the big dollar contract scomign to those poor moms and dads who support and carry the entourage going forward.

Entirely correct statement Taj, winning is not as important as abundant positive media coverage.  The issue here is to get people to believe what is said about Duke.

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2 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

We can all agree that Zion Williamson is a freak athlete and deserves the press he gets. ESPN’s coverage of him is understandable. 

However, with Duke’s reloaded class similar to this previous year, is there a case to make that ESPN’s nonstop coverage of DUKE basketball and the corresponding tv show that DUKE got out of it. 

Every year during the draft players from all across the country get drafted, but the names that stick out the most (imo) are the DUKE players. 

Players like Ja Morant who are competing for the #1 draft pick with Zion for the Phoenix Suns have gotten a fraction of the coverage he has. 

My question is I wonder if there could be a case made against ESPN for working behind the scenes with DUKE to promote the program so much in order to influence recruiting? 

I am not saying they are guilty but is there even a chance that they are working together? 

Players leave their hometown team for DUKE because of the National attention that is honestly not always deserved. (Almost lost in the second round) 

how can other schools that aren’t blue bloods compete for these recruits when the national spotlight is unfairly leveraged against them 

Coaches
Rank Name Wins
1* Mike Krzyzewski 1,132

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25 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

There is no competition between Zion and Ja for number 1. I don't care how much coverage Murray State got this year, Zion is a potential generational talent. 

I know Zion is a freak athlete, but at 6'6 with a below average perimeter shot is anyone else not as sold on him being a guaranteed star in the NBA (and with how the game is played today)? Who does he get compared to? Blake Griffin? I see someone referenced Charles Barkley, that would certainly be one from the past (Larry Johnson could be another one from the past).

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15 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

There is no competition between Zion and Ja for number 1. I don't care how much coverage Murray State got this year, Zion is a potential generational talent. 

I agree.  Zion appears to be a bigger, better version of Charles Barkley, who is a top 25 all-time player.  Morant strikes me as a much skinnier version of Russell Westbrook, who is no slouch but not an all-timer IMO.  The question is how long can Zion's joints hold up in the NBA carrying all that weight.

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44 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

I know Zion is a freak athlete, but at 6'6 with a below average perimeter shot is anyone else not as sold on him being a guaranteed star in the NBA (and with how the game is played today)? Who does he get compared to? Blake Griffin? I see someone referenced Charles Barkley, that would certainly be one from the past (Larry Johnson could be another one from the past).

Honestly I think there's no comparison for him. He's the first Zion. I think the jumper is better than the reputation it currently has. He may never be a lethal 3 point shooter, but I think he will develop enough where guys don't sag off him. I was lucky enough to see him in person 3 times this year and catch a couple Duke practices and seeing the work ethic he has makes me think he is destined for huge things. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd roll the dice on Zion if I were sitting at number one. 

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Here is the thing with Zion.  The hype for him is soooo off the charts that the odds are in favor of him being a "disappointment" in the NBA.  I'd imagine that even if he has a really good career like Larry Johnson (2x All Star) that he'll still be viewed as a little bit of a disappointment.

Given the way NBA games are played now, Zion will have to become a better shooter and passer to be a true superstar player for a long time.   If not, Larry Johnson is probably the ceiling and his career will fade similarly as he ages and loses athleticism.

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8 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

Here is the thing with Zion.  The hype for him is soooo off the charts that the odds are in favor of him being a "disappointment" in the NBA.  I'd imagine that even if he has a really good career like Larry Johnson (2x All Star) that he'll still be viewed as a little bit of a disappointment.

Given the way NBA games are played now, Zion will have to become a better shooter and passer to be a true superstar player for a long time.   If not, Larry Johnson is probably the ceiling and his career will fade similarly as he ages and loses athleticism.

LJ never had Zion's vertical.  And Zion is already a better outside shooter than Barkley was early in his career.

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People seem to miss that Zion is a gamble in the nba while Ja is a much safer bet. 

I’m not discrediting Zion at all, he’s just not a unanimous decision for #1. 

Regardless, Duke would still get a great recruiting class every year, but maybe not as crazy good as they do now with all the media coverage 

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6 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

how can other schools that aren’t blue bloods compete for these recruits when the national spotlight is unfairly leveraged against them 

Cue Stu Durando in a montage scene sitting in front of his typewriter driving Bills fanaticism to new heights.

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1 hour ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

People seem to miss that Zion is a gamble in the nba while Ja is a much safer bet. 

I’m not discrediting Zion at all, he’s just not a unanimous decision for #1. 

Regardless, Duke would still get a great recruiting class every year, but maybe not as crazy good as they do now with all the media coverage 

Huh? I haven't seen a single publication pick anyone besides Zion first overall. 

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5 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Let's see how Zion does against the Joel Embiid's, Blake Griffin's, and Kwahi :Leonard's of the world -- night, after night, after night.  Maybe he'll surprise me. 

On th eflip side, at least another ro fmy least favorite players --- Russell Westbrook -- is dead and gone for another 0off season.  He's 31, he'll never win.

 

5 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

I know Zion is a freak athlete, but at 6'6 with a below average perimeter shot is anyone else not as sold on him being a guaranteed star in the NBA (and with how the game is played today)? Who does he get compared to? Blake Griffin? I see someone referenced Charles Barkley, that would certainly be one from the past (Larry Johnson could be another one from the past).

I think Zion will be good but not great.

I see him being a 15 and 10 guy for his career. I don’t see him being any more productive than Elton Brand.

Duke produces some good NBA talent but nothing special. They have Kyrie and Reddick is having a good year. Other than that it’s a bunch of ok talent.

 

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2 hours ago, johnbj14 said:

Huh? I haven't seen a single publication pick anyone besides Zion first overall. 

This lol

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Duke is Duke. Coach K bought into the one and done thing a few years back and it really hasn' t done that much for him in terms of National Championships, which is really all they care about at Duke. ESPN is their biggest cheerleader due to Bilas. And yes they win a lot of games that are on national TV. What I don't get about them, and I really should look at their roster before I say this, but besides the 3-4 one an dones they bring in every year,  who are their backups? The new stars are going to start, and they may have a few upperclassmen who will back them up. Ok, so give them a 7-8 man rotation, but what about the other 6-8 scholarship players sitting on their bench for most of the games? I can never figure out why they stay. They must have been pretty good to get a scholie from Coach K, yet they sit. And they'll sit next year when the next group of thoroughbreds come in. Still, Duke has very few, if any, transfers. I don't get how he does this.

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Simple SLU 72, the trick is to convince the bench warmers that being at Duke is everything.

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For many people, a Duke degree is everything. 

Lots of moneyed connections, a great endowment, a wonderful campus, some incredible scholastic programs, and a solid basketball program.

i am old enough to remember when both programs sucked. Then Duke hired the right coach, while we went through eight or nine coaches.

all the rest is sour grapes.

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That is looking at it from a primarily basketball point of view Sheltiedave. From an academic point of view you must understand that there is a crop of misunderstandings, false images, and disappointments that happen frequently. It is true a Duke degree may be on par with other prestigious degreess like Stanford, Yale, Harvard, Virginia. They all have high power teaching staffs, world class research, all kinds of grad schools and fat connections that can be made during the college years that may or will help later on. However there is no guarantee of success that comes with a Duke or Harvard or Yale, etc... degree. In truth all such a degree does is to give you a boost to a more prestigious initial job once you graduate. From here on you are really on your own, Duke or no Duke, Harvard or no Harvard... Do you disagree that the corporate world, like the academic world, is a dog eats dog type of environment? You have to survive that and move ahead, and you have to  do it on your own. Your prestige degree will not carry you very far in that environment, indeed it may hurt you (like when your bosses immediately and a couple of levels above have State U. degrees and decide to  prove you are not better than they are). Moneyed connections abound in Duke and other prestige places, but that does not mean they are available to YOU. The moneyed kids tend to stick with one another, keep that in mind.

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I think I should explain my post when I said the trick was to get them to believe Duke is everything. As you all know people can believe anything and everything, and the fact they believe something may  not have a strong connection to reality. My post just above talks about the reality of the advantages associated with a prestige degree. However, the students (including basketball players) may be totally convinced that the Duke degree (or Harvard, etc...) is a passport to moving up in the world. This image, or this belief, which is not reality, is what the benchwarmers in the Duke team have to embrace to stay where they are. Yes, a Duke degree is valuable, no it will not automatically propel you to  CEO level.

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I agree with you, old guy, that the particulars are a lot more nuanced than 18 yr olds think.

Harsh reality dictates that only the two or three best b-ball players grime a grade school team make a high school team, and only two or three hs players make a college squad, and only 30 to 40 college players a year stick in the NBA.

For everyone else, maximizing the skills and education they gained in college is critical to life success, not whether they went to Stoney Brook or Duke.

The bling and dazzle that recruiters sell rapidly dulls these days; evidenced by the swelling number of transfers. It also shows in the methods employed to recruit grad transfers, who know what they want.

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If I had a child and they were smart enough to get into Duke I’m sending my kid to Duke 10/10 over SLU... unless they are a 5* then they are going to SLU. 

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